Many thanks to Catherine Monaghan for posting the entertaining article from
'Good Old Boat' regarding the Cape Dory 30 DeLaMer. I looked at it immediately
and enjoyed it thoroughly. It's always great to see a Cape Dory featured in the
media. I recall an issue of 'Blue Water Cruising' that did a very complimentary
review of the Cape Dory 36 about a year or two ago. As noted below, I have some
literature about the CD 31 from 1983 or so. If these would be of interest maybe
Ms. Monaghan can help me post them.
Here's the main point of this note however. Perhaps we should contact 'Good Old
Boat' and/or DeLaMer's owners to set them right about an important fact. The
Cape Dory 31's was designed by Carl Alberg - period!! I have previously seen
reference on this website to the misconception about the design origins of the
31. The record should be set straight, at least on this message board if not in
'Good Old Boat'.
I sail a 31 and have much literature contemporary to the time the boats were
built, including reviews in the media and promotional materials from the
builder. All this material clearly states that Carl Alberg designed the CD31.
Nowhere is it even intimated that the manufacturer tinkered or altered Alberg's
design.
What might account for the difference in the one-time charter sailing experience
between a 30 and a 31? Well, singular conditions of that brief charter recalled
by DelaMer's owners long ago might be a factor. Comparing the boats might also
be useful. Having not sailed a 30 I can only make some observations about the
performance of the 31.
As has been discussed on this website before, including discussions about adding
ballast, the 31 is tender. But, like many boats of this type of traditional
design she has a tendency to go over, sit right where she's comfortable and take
right off! Remember the old CCA design rules rewarded good looking counter
stern designs like this that lengthen their effective waterline as they heel.
The 31 has slightly greater beam than the 30, somewhat higher freeboard and
displaces a bit more. Perhaps the biggest difference is the rig and sail area
437 for the 30, 504 for the 31, basic specification. The 31 carries a tall
stick even for this day and age. I am often surprised when comparing boats in
the harbor at how tall a mast the 31 has. More sail area, more weight aloft
means you reef this boat early, put her ear in the water and go!
This is not a liability though. For instance last year I was beating through a
typical short, steep Chesapeake chop, 18 to 20 + knots from the SW, tide
opposite the wind, under staysail and one tuck in the main - we sailed right
up the stern of 30 something footer under much more sail and sailing much
flatter but not making near the head way as they were bounced and pounded about
in the chop!
Fair winds and happy sailing for 2000!
Bill Sonntag
dalbers1@earthlink.net
Cape Dory 31 - Designed by Carl Alberg
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Cape Dory 31 - Designed by Carl Alberg
I'm glad that you enjoyed the article about our boat and sailing the CD30. We really enjoyed this experience with the folks at Good Old Boat magazine.
As far as the designer of the CD31 goes, this information had been passed on to me from Robinhood Marine's Chuck Perry I believe. It has been probably 10 years now since talking to the 'source' of the information, but it was in response to a question that I had about the CD30 and 36 being excellent boats that I had tried out at that time. I had a chance to charter a CD31 for a week with my family, and did so. We found the 31 to be a bit more 'rolly' in a situation where other boats were not even moving, such as sitting to a Med. mooring at a dock with 7 other sailboats of differing size and style. I asked the folks at Robinhood this and was told that Carl Alberg had not designed all of the Cape Dory's per se, but that the in-house engineering team had modified the CD30's hullform to fit a stretched deck. It was one of the complaints that the person I talked with had heard before. Even though the literature does not reflect the fact that the in-house team had taken a Carl Alberg design and modified it, Carl was the only person listed as the designer..as he obviously did the math and design to begin with.
This all said, I did like the way the 31 sailed. She does scoot very nicely and does point very well.. I suspect that the higher topsides and turn of the bilge contribute to a boat that likes to be a bit more rolly at anchor or dock. It's not a bad thing..just another compromise that boat owners make when choosing one boat over another.
So please don't allow that article to influence which boat you get, or which one you don't for that matter. It is all a personal choice.
regards,
Larry Demers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~
demers@sgi.com
As far as the designer of the CD31 goes, this information had been passed on to me from Robinhood Marine's Chuck Perry I believe. It has been probably 10 years now since talking to the 'source' of the information, but it was in response to a question that I had about the CD30 and 36 being excellent boats that I had tried out at that time. I had a chance to charter a CD31 for a week with my family, and did so. We found the 31 to be a bit more 'rolly' in a situation where other boats were not even moving, such as sitting to a Med. mooring at a dock with 7 other sailboats of differing size and style. I asked the folks at Robinhood this and was told that Carl Alberg had not designed all of the Cape Dory's per se, but that the in-house engineering team had modified the CD30's hullform to fit a stretched deck. It was one of the complaints that the person I talked with had heard before. Even though the literature does not reflect the fact that the in-house team had taken a Carl Alberg design and modified it, Carl was the only person listed as the designer..as he obviously did the math and design to begin with.
This all said, I did like the way the 31 sailed. She does scoot very nicely and does point very well.. I suspect that the higher topsides and turn of the bilge contribute to a boat that likes to be a bit more rolly at anchor or dock. It's not a bad thing..just another compromise that boat owners make when choosing one boat over another.
So please don't allow that article to influence which boat you get, or which one you don't for that matter. It is all a personal choice.
regards,
Larry Demers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~
Bill Sonntag wrote: Many thanks to Catherine Monaghan for posting the entertaining article from
'Good Old Boat' regarding the Cape Dory 30 DeLaMer. I looked at it immediately
and enjoyed it thoroughly. It's always great to see a Cape Dory featured in the
media. I recall an issue of 'Blue Water Cruising' that did a very complimentary
review of the Cape Dory 36 about a year or two ago. As noted below, I have some
literature about the CD 31 from 1983 or so. If these would be of interest maybe
Ms. Monaghan can help me post them.
Here's the main point of this note however. Perhaps we should contact 'Good Old
Boat' and/or DeLaMer's owners to set them right about an important fact. The
Cape Dory 31's was designed by Carl Alberg - period!! I have previously seen
reference on this website to the misconception about the design origins of the
31. The record should be set straight, at least on this message board if not in
'Good Old Boat'.
I sail a 31 and have much literature contemporary to the time the boats were
built, including reviews in the media and promotional materials from the
builder. All this material clearly states that Carl Alberg designed the CD31.
Nowhere is it even intimated that the manufacturer tinkered or altered Alberg's
design.
What might account for the difference in the one-time charter sailing experience
between a 30 and a 31? Well, singular conditions of that brief charter recalled
by DelaMer's owners long ago might be a factor. Comparing the boats might also
be useful. Having not sailed a 30 I can only make some observations about the
performance of the 31.
As has been discussed on this website before, including discussions about adding
ballast, the 31 is tender. But, like many boats of this type of traditional
design she has a tendency to go over, sit right where she's comfortable and take
right off! Remember the old CCA design rules rewarded good looking counter
stern designs like this that lengthen their effective waterline as they heel.
The 31 has slightly greater beam than the 30, somewhat higher freeboard and
displaces a bit more. Perhaps the biggest difference is the rig and sail area
437 for the 30, 504 for the 31, basic specification. The 31 carries a tall
stick even for this day and age. I am often surprised when comparing boats in
the harbor at how tall a mast the 31 has. More sail area, more weight aloft
means you reef this boat early, put her ear in the water and go!
This is not a liability though. For instance last year I was beating through a
typical short, steep Chesapeake chop, 18 to 20 + knots from the SW, tide
opposite the wind, under staysail and one tuck in the main - we sailed right
up the stern of 30 something footer under much more sail and sailing much
flatter but not making near the head way as they were bounced and pounded about
in the chop!
Fair winds and happy sailing for 2000!
Bill Sonntag
demers@sgi.com
-
Tom C.
And boy! Do they sail.
Several years ago while cruising in Mexico I sailed through the lee of an Islander 36 and a Baba 38 which so astonished them that they radioed over to ask if I was running the engine. After that, whenever they called me on the radio they referred to us as "Rocketship" Heiress! On a close reach she screams!Bill Sonntag wrote: Many thanks to Catherine Monaghan for posting the entertaining article from
'Good Old Boat' regarding the Cape Dory 30 DeLaMer. I looked at it immediately
and enjoyed it thoroughly. It's always great to see a Cape Dory featured in the
media. I recall an issue of 'Blue Water Cruising' that did a very complimentary
review of the Cape Dory 36 about a year or two ago. As noted below, I have some
literature about the CD 31 from 1983 or so. If these would be of interest maybe
Ms. Monaghan can help me post them.
Here's the main point of this note however. Perhaps we should contact 'Good Old
Boat' and/or DeLaMer's owners to set them right about an important fact. The
Cape Dory 31's was designed by Carl Alberg - period!! I have previously seen
reference on this website to the misconception about the design origins of the
31. The record should be set straight, at least on this message board if not in
'Good Old Boat'.
I sail a 31 and have much literature contemporary to the time the boats were
built, including reviews in the media and promotional materials from the
builder. All this material clearly states that Carl Alberg designed the CD31.
Nowhere is it even intimated that the manufacturer tinkered or altered Alberg's
design.
What might account for the difference in the one-time charter sailing experience
between a 30 and a 31? Well, singular conditions of that brief charter recalled
by DelaMer's owners long ago might be a factor. Comparing the boats might also
be useful. Having not sailed a 30 I can only make some observations about the
performance of the 31.
As has been discussed on this website before, including discussions about adding
ballast, the 31 is tender. But, like many boats of this type of traditional
design she has a tendency to go over, sit right where she's comfortable and take
right off! Remember the old CCA design rules rewarded good looking counter
stern designs like this that lengthen their effective waterline as they heel.
The 31 has slightly greater beam than the 30, somewhat higher freeboard and
displaces a bit more. Perhaps the biggest difference is the rig and sail area
437 for the 30, 504 for the 31, basic specification. The 31 carries a tall
stick even for this day and age. I am often surprised when comparing boats in
the harbor at how tall a mast the 31 has. More sail area, more weight aloft
means you reef this boat early, put her ear in the water and go!
This is not a liability though. For instance last year I was beating through a
typical short, steep Chesapeake chop, 18 to 20 + knots from the SW, tide
opposite the wind, under staysail and one tuck in the main - we sailed right
up the stern of 30 something footer under much more sail and sailing much
flatter but not making near the head way as they were bounced and pounded about
in the chop!
Fair winds and happy sailing for 2000!
Bill Sonntag
I've never felt she was tender and no one who has ever sailed with me thought she was tender. I haven't sailed a thirty and perhaps they are unusually stiff, but a 31 certainly isn't "tender". I've been out in 50+ knot winds on staysail and one reef and 30 foot seas and never took a drop on deck. Hard to imagine that a "tender" boat can stand up that well.
The nice thing about the minimal extra freeboard is that one can sit on the settee without banging their head on the cabin side, and oh yeah, it makes for a dry boat and lots of locker stowage room compared to the 30.
Tom Coons
CD 31 "Heiress"
TomCambria@mindspring.com
-
Dana
Re: Cape Dory 31 (Alberg) VS. Cape Dory 310 (Clive Dent)
Perhaps the confusion between Cape Dory 31 footers comes from the confusion between the earlier Alberg 31 vs the Dent 310 "Contemporary". Some numbers about the "Contemporary" from the Fall 1991 catalog...
LOD 30'6"
Disp 10500#
LWL 24'2"
Beam 10'6"
Ballast 4200#
SA 495 SF
Interior layout about the same of the CD32......
Dana
_______________________________________________________
darenius@aol.com
LOD 30'6"
Disp 10500#
LWL 24'2"
Beam 10'6"
Ballast 4200#
SA 495 SF
Interior layout about the same of the CD32......
Dana
_______________________________________________________
Bill Sonntag wrote: Many thanks to Catherine Monaghan for posting the entertaining article from
'Good Old Boat' regarding the Cape Dory 30 DeLaMer. I looked at it immediately
and enjoyed it thoroughly. It's always great to see a Cape Dory featured in the
media. I recall an issue of 'Blue Water Cruising' that did a very complimentary
review of the Cape Dory 36 about a year or two ago. As noted below, I have some
literature about the CD 31 from 1983 or so. If these would be of interest maybe
Ms. Monaghan can help me post them.
Here's the main point of this note however. Perhaps we should contact 'Good Old
Boat' and/or DeLaMer's owners to set them right about an important fact. The
Cape Dory 31's was designed by Carl Alberg - period!! I have previously seen
reference on this website to the misconception about the design origins of the
31. The record should be set straight, at least on this message board if not in
'Good Old Boat'.
I sail a 31 and have much literature contemporary to the time the boats were
built, including reviews in the media and promotional materials from the
builder. All this material clearly states that Carl Alberg designed the CD31.
Nowhere is it even intimated that the manufacturer tinkered or altered Alberg's
design.
What might account for the difference in the one-time charter sailing experience
between a 30 and a 31? Well, singular conditions of that brief charter recalled
by DelaMer's owners long ago might be a factor. Comparing the boats might also
be useful. Having not sailed a 30 I can only make some observations about the
performance of the 31.
As has been discussed on this website before, including discussions about adding
ballast, the 31 is tender. But, like many boats of this type of traditional
design she has a tendency to go over, sit right where she's comfortable and take
right off! Remember the old CCA design rules rewarded good looking counter
stern designs like this that lengthen their effective waterline as they heel.
The 31 has slightly greater beam than the 30, somewhat higher freeboard and
displaces a bit more. Perhaps the biggest difference is the rig and sail area
437 for the 30, 504 for the 31, basic specification. The 31 carries a tall
stick even for this day and age. I am often surprised when comparing boats in
the harbor at how tall a mast the 31 has. More sail area, more weight aloft
means you reef this boat early, put her ear in the water and go!
This is not a liability though. For instance last year I was beating through a
typical short, steep Chesapeake chop, 18 to 20 + knots from the SW, tide
opposite the wind, under staysail and one tuck in the main - we sailed right
up the stern of 30 something footer under much more sail and sailing much
flatter but not making near the head way as they were bounced and pounded about
in the chop!
Fair winds and happy sailing for 2000!
Bill Sonntag
darenius@aol.com
-
Dana
Clive Dent's CD310 Picture and Details
Dana wrote: Perhaps the confusion between Cape Dory 31 footers comes from the confusion between the earlier Alberg 31 vs the Dent 310 "Contemporary". Some numbers about the "Contemporary" from the Fall 1991 catalog...
LOD 30'6"
Disp 10500#
LWL 24'2"
Beam 10'6"
Ballast 4200#
SA 495 SF
Interior layout about the same of the CD32......
Dana
_______________________________________________________
Bill Sonntag wrote: Many thanks to Catherine Monaghan for posting the entertaining article from
'Good Old Boat' regarding the Cape Dory 30 DeLaMer. I looked at it immediately
and enjoyed it thoroughly. It's always great to see a Cape Dory featured in the
media. I recall an issue of 'Blue Water Cruising' that did a very complimentary
review of the Cape Dory 36 about a year or two ago. As noted below, I have some
literature about the CD 31 from 1983 or so. If these would be of interest maybe
Ms. Monaghan can help me post them.
Here's the main point of this note however. Perhaps we should contact 'Good Old
Boat' and/or DeLaMer's owners to set them right about an important fact. The
Cape Dory 31's was designed by Carl Alberg - period!! I have previously seen
reference on this website to the misconception about the design origins of the
31. The record should be set straight, at least on this message board if not in
'Good Old Boat'.
I sail a 31 and have much literature contemporary to the time the boats were
built, including reviews in the media and promotional materials from the
builder. All this material clearly states that Carl Alberg designed the CD31.
Nowhere is it even intimated that the manufacturer tinkered or altered Alberg's
design.
What might account for the difference in the one-time charter sailing experience
between a 30 and a 31? Well, singular conditions of that brief charter recalled
by DelaMer's owners long ago might be a factor. Comparing the boats might also
be useful. Having not sailed a 30 I can only make some observations about the
performance of the 31.
As has been discussed on this website before, including discussions about adding
ballast, the 31 is tender. But, like many boats of this type of traditional
design she has a tendency to go over, sit right where she's comfortable and take
right off! Remember the old CCA design rules rewarded good looking counter
stern designs like this that lengthen their effective waterline as they heel.
The 31 has slightly greater beam than the 30, somewhat higher freeboard and
displaces a bit more. Perhaps the biggest difference is the rig and sail area
437 for the 30, 504 for the 31, basic specification. The 31 carries a tall
stick even for this day and age. I am often surprised when comparing boats in
the harbor at how tall a mast the 31 has. More sail area, more weight aloft
means you reef this boat early, put her ear in the water and go!
This is not a liability though. For instance last year I was beating through a
typical short, steep Chesapeake chop, 18 to 20 + knots from the SW, tide
opposite the wind, under staysail and one tuck in the main - we sailed right
up the stern of 30 something footer under much more sail and sailing much
flatter but not making near the head way as they were bounced and pounded about
in the chop!
Fair winds and happy sailing for 2000!
Bill Sonntag
[img]http://members.aol.com/darenius/CD310.JPG[/img]
darenius@aol.com
-
Bill Sonntag
Thank you - Dana
Thank you Dana for the information in your post regarding "CD310". That
promotional material was surely a new one on me, I have never heard of the boat
before. Where do you find this stuff?!
This does appear to put the matter of CD31 design (or should I say CD31's) to
rest. But I continue to agree with L. DeMer, the Alberg designed CD31 has
always struck me as having less than expected initial stability as it can be
"rolly" underfoot or in a swell or chop at anchor or longside a dock. Perhaps an
inherent characteristic of wineglass sectioned full keel sailboats. This may
also be the same reason for the "almost mystical" seakindlyness, seakeeping
abilities of Alberg designed boats. In deference to T. Cambria, CD31s are
surely not "tender" under sail in either light or heavy weather conditions.
I would also be interested in the number of CD310s manufactured. If this
material dates to '91, it was close to the moment of untimely demise for Cape
Dory.
Bill Sonntag
dalbers1@earthlink.net
promotional material was surely a new one on me, I have never heard of the boat
before. Where do you find this stuff?!
This does appear to put the matter of CD31 design (or should I say CD31's) to
rest. But I continue to agree with L. DeMer, the Alberg designed CD31 has
always struck me as having less than expected initial stability as it can be
"rolly" underfoot or in a swell or chop at anchor or longside a dock. Perhaps an
inherent characteristic of wineglass sectioned full keel sailboats. This may
also be the same reason for the "almost mystical" seakindlyness, seakeeping
abilities of Alberg designed boats. In deference to T. Cambria, CD31s are
surely not "tender" under sail in either light or heavy weather conditions.
I would also be interested in the number of CD310s manufactured. If this
material dates to '91, it was close to the moment of untimely demise for Cape
Dory.
Bill Sonntag
dalbers1@earthlink.net