Folks,
Check this out:
http://www.nauticexpo.com/scripts/IDPHe ... pe=Produit
This is a "WillDo" jet thruster system. There are several versions. basically is utilizes a pump and small jets, rather that a large tunnel with a propeller in it, to maneuver a boat in tight quarters.
jet thrusters
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
jet thrusters
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
Troy -
This is an interesting system, the small jet ports could be very effective on full keeled boats. I don't know how well they would work on a CD with the cut away forefoot, it could be challenging to get them installed at the correct angle and deep enough. Pump maintenance would be a significant issue too depending on what materials the system is made from. The mini seems to use a 1 1/8" jet port so that means approximately a 1 1/2" hole in your hull on two sides. Is that significant? I don't think it's that big of a deal with proper mounting back up and good installation techniques it would probably be a non -issue. It is good that the system has provision for closing off the jet ports but they don't give a lot of details on that. A person could probably install a couple UL marine rated ball valves. The pump is small so it would be easy to install. Pump part availability in the future would be a major concern of mine, especially on a european product. Often times it can be very difficult to obtain parts from european manufacturers after they lose distributorship here. This system is far better than tunnel thrusters. Probably got the idea from space craft observations.
Do you plan to install this system on your boat? If so, I would be very interested in following along on your experiences and opinions and the process in general. If you do install this system please post a message saying so and describe your experiences. Thanks for posting the link on this system.
This is an interesting system, the small jet ports could be very effective on full keeled boats. I don't know how well they would work on a CD with the cut away forefoot, it could be challenging to get them installed at the correct angle and deep enough. Pump maintenance would be a significant issue too depending on what materials the system is made from. The mini seems to use a 1 1/8" jet port so that means approximately a 1 1/2" hole in your hull on two sides. Is that significant? I don't think it's that big of a deal with proper mounting back up and good installation techniques it would probably be a non -issue. It is good that the system has provision for closing off the jet ports but they don't give a lot of details on that. A person could probably install a couple UL marine rated ball valves. The pump is small so it would be easy to install. Pump part availability in the future would be a major concern of mine, especially on a european product. Often times it can be very difficult to obtain parts from european manufacturers after they lose distributorship here. This system is far better than tunnel thrusters. Probably got the idea from space craft observations.
Do you plan to install this system on your boat? If so, I would be very interested in following along on your experiences and opinions and the process in general. If you do install this system please post a message saying so and describe your experiences. Thanks for posting the link on this system.
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
will I get one?...maybe....
I would very much like to install a system like this. Before I came across this system, I had been thinking about designing my own system with jets. However, my desire to have this total control is offset by my desire to keep things simple. But I remember those videos of the Hinckley Picnic Boat. That boat is completely controllable with a joystick. And after maneuvering the boat into the slip, it would be so cool to be able to just turn on the stabilizer and have the boat "hold position" in the center of the slip while the lines are tied. Yes, I would love it and I wouldn't be ashamed to use it.
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
I couldn't agree more with your summation. It would be sure pleasure to have this type of control on a full keel or large yacht, no question about that. Anyone that says it wouldn't be heaven obviously has never been in touchy maneuvering situations such as docking a full keeler in a running cross current or stiff breeze. The system you presented to this board looks to be a very plausible option that needs to be further explored. I think you are far better off going with a completely engineered system rather than go through the trial and error of a DIY system. My opinion would be that if you are completely satisfied with the quality of the components, the longevity and servicability and can afford the system then I would say go for it if it helps you or anyone else to enjoy your boat more. I have known too many CD's that have sat at the dock because owners did not like dealing with the challenges of handling the full keeled hull in tight situations. Hope it works out Troy.
Have you seen the electric draw?
This electric pump draws 400A!!! I can imagine the size of the wires from my 440 ah battery bank to the pump and how flat the batteries would be after just a few minutes of using the system.
I dont have much confidence in bow thrusters any way, after watching a sailboat go out of control and hit the seawall in 20kt winds in the New River one night. His bow thruster wouldnt hold the boat against the wind.
I think I would like to see this actually operate in a similar boat before I bought into it.
Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale,Fla.
I dont have much confidence in bow thrusters any way, after watching a sailboat go out of control and hit the seawall in 20kt winds in the New River one night. His bow thruster wouldnt hold the boat against the wind.
I think I would like to see this actually operate in a similar boat before I bought into it.
Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale,Fla.
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
power and necessity
Boyd,
I too want to see a demonstration in a relatively heavy cruising sailboat.
The power requirement is about like a windlass, but it's usually just short bursts. Like a microwave oven, it uses very high current, but not for long, unless the boat is "hovering". Usually the engine would be running during this time, turning the largest reasonable alternator.
I suspect that the sailboat you watched lose control would have been in trouble with or without the thruster. I watched a similar unsuccessful attempt by a guy in a new small Camano trawler. In both cases it probably wasn't the fault of the boat or the thruster.....
What I would like to have is a small, discreet and very controllable system that I could occasionally use when maneuvering shorthanded around other folk's expensive boats. I despise getting involved in frantic and embarrassing docking situations. It doesn't matter if the boat is mine or not; If everybody on the dock and the surrounding boats feels the need to come running to help, I just want to disappear.
Of course we understand about backing and filling, prop-walk, etc., and how to use these effects to advantage. And we understand that real sailors want to control the boat without the use of thrusters or any other means of "cheating". But, if being a purist WRT maneuvering jets means I have to give up sailing time because I don't have several guys with me to walk the boat around the pilings and the other boats, then I've just shot myself in the foot.
One of the features I would value the most would be the ability to "hover". There is inexpensive, reliable hardware that I believe could be adapted. Gyro-stabilizers and GPS position sensing have progressed dramatically. My partner flies model helicopters. These machines are amazing, capable of incredible aerobatics. They are also expensive. Nowadays many of them are equipped with stabilizers which will hold the machine steady while the "pilot" regains his wits after a near disaster. This kind of "time out" isn't available to a short-handed sailor in a tight marina in a crosswind/crosscurrent situation. It doesn't help to point out that the captain should have had sense enough to avoid the situation in the first place. It would be downright elegant to be able to just turn loose and regroup without a lot of panic and drama.
I too want to see a demonstration in a relatively heavy cruising sailboat.
The power requirement is about like a windlass, but it's usually just short bursts. Like a microwave oven, it uses very high current, but not for long, unless the boat is "hovering". Usually the engine would be running during this time, turning the largest reasonable alternator.
I suspect that the sailboat you watched lose control would have been in trouble with or without the thruster. I watched a similar unsuccessful attempt by a guy in a new small Camano trawler. In both cases it probably wasn't the fault of the boat or the thruster.....
What I would like to have is a small, discreet and very controllable system that I could occasionally use when maneuvering shorthanded around other folk's expensive boats. I despise getting involved in frantic and embarrassing docking situations. It doesn't matter if the boat is mine or not; If everybody on the dock and the surrounding boats feels the need to come running to help, I just want to disappear.
Of course we understand about backing and filling, prop-walk, etc., and how to use these effects to advantage. And we understand that real sailors want to control the boat without the use of thrusters or any other means of "cheating". But, if being a purist WRT maneuvering jets means I have to give up sailing time because I don't have several guys with me to walk the boat around the pilings and the other boats, then I've just shot myself in the foot.
One of the features I would value the most would be the ability to "hover". There is inexpensive, reliable hardware that I believe could be adapted. Gyro-stabilizers and GPS position sensing have progressed dramatically. My partner flies model helicopters. These machines are amazing, capable of incredible aerobatics. They are also expensive. Nowadays many of them are equipped with stabilizers which will hold the machine steady while the "pilot" regains his wits after a near disaster. This kind of "time out" isn't available to a short-handed sailor in a tight marina in a crosswind/crosscurrent situation. It doesn't help to point out that the captain should have had sense enough to avoid the situation in the first place. It would be downright elegant to be able to just turn loose and regroup without a lot of panic and drama.
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
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Steve Laume
- Posts: 4127
- Joined: Feb 13th, '05, 20:40
- Location: Raven1984 Cape Dory 30C Hull #309Noank, CT
- Contact:
The only thing I find annoying about bow thrusters is the grinding noise. Truth be told they do make me just a tiny bit jealous.
If I had a larger boat it would be comforting to have the ability to move the bow about or at least counter act the force of the wind on the bow.
Having those those big tunnel holes right up forward has got to be disastrous as far as sailing performance goes. I think you have the right idea with the jet system.
Before I invested as much money and effort in installing the system I sure would like to be on a boat that had them.
The perpetual kid in me wants to know if you could fire a broadside at your competition at close quarters while heavily heeled. Forget about wash down pumps and stream machines these things could become the ultimate weapon, Steve.
If I had a larger boat it would be comforting to have the ability to move the bow about or at least counter act the force of the wind on the bow.
Having those those big tunnel holes right up forward has got to be disastrous as far as sailing performance goes. I think you have the right idea with the jet system.
Before I invested as much money and effort in installing the system I sure would like to be on a boat that had them.
The perpetual kid in me wants to know if you could fire a broadside at your competition at close quarters while heavily heeled. Forget about wash down pumps and stream machines these things could become the ultimate weapon, Steve.
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
tongue partially inserted into cheek
Steve,
WRT the water cannon idea, don't think I hadn't considered this.....
Another possibility for bow control is the industrial carpet drying fan. Actually you need two since they aren't reversible. A couple of these mounted on the bow should allow you to put the bow where you want it. Just be careful you don't blow your neighbor's Schnauzer into the creek while utilizing this method to get your yacht into the slip. An added benefit: A little repositioning should allow complete spinnaker control!
WRT the water cannon idea, don't think I hadn't considered this.....
Another possibility for bow control is the industrial carpet drying fan. Actually you need two since they aren't reversible. A couple of these mounted on the bow should allow you to put the bow where you want it. Just be careful you don't blow your neighbor's Schnauzer into the creek while utilizing this method to get your yacht into the slip. An added benefit: A little repositioning should allow complete spinnaker control!
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
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Matt Cawthorne
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Mar 2nd, '05, 17:33
- Location: CD 36, 1982
Hull # 79
Power requirements
One of the problems with the jet thruster idea is that the smaller the thruster area, the more power that the thruster requires to generate the same thrust. I have often thought of having an inexpensive trolling motor built into a pivot that can swing down when you think you might need it. The power requirements (and hence the cost of large gage wire) are much reduced. The wire gage is important, and wow, does the cost of heavy wire add up fast for high current applications. When not in use, it could be brought up into a zero drag position. Most of the time it does not take a great deal of thrust to maneuver safely. The problem then becomes how big to make the thruster/jet/motor to cover the rare conditions. .
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
like this one?
Matt wrote:
" I have often thought of having an inexpensive trolling motor built into a pivot that can swing down when you think you might need it."
Hmmm..., like this?:
http://www.sideshift.com/products/productslinks.htm
" I have often thought of having an inexpensive trolling motor built into a pivot that can swing down when you think you might need it."
Hmmm..., like this?:
http://www.sideshift.com/products/productslinks.htm
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
Yacht Thrusters by Exturn
Folks, first, let me say HI! after a long absence from this forum. I'm resurrecting this old thread because I'm still thinking about the thruster idea.
Now, has anyone had any experience with "Yacht Thrusters by Exturn?"
The website, at least is impressive. They claim that this addition causes very little drag. It certainly looks like the installation would be far quicker and easier than either a tunnel thruster or a jet thruster. I would have several concerns. One is the fact that the case is aluminum. Considering that the aluminum is coated, and that it would get additional epoxy primer and bottom paint, this probably isn't an issue, but still it's a concern. Except for the propeller and the controllers, I'm thinking that this device is probably not a candidate for an occasional rebuild. I think it probably requires total replacement when the propulsion unit dies. This is becoming more or less standard design philosophy with appliances these days.
I like the fact the installation is hardly invasive; this installation could be easily "undone" later.
I'm still looking at various thrusters..., and the possibility of just not having one. I'm interested in this because I want to be able to more easily maneuver in close quarters either single-handed or short handed, and my boat displaces about 18,000 pounds loaded for cruising. That's just too much for me to yank around solo.
Thoughts?
Now, has anyone had any experience with "Yacht Thrusters by Exturn?"
The website, at least is impressive. They claim that this addition causes very little drag. It certainly looks like the installation would be far quicker and easier than either a tunnel thruster or a jet thruster. I would have several concerns. One is the fact that the case is aluminum. Considering that the aluminum is coated, and that it would get additional epoxy primer and bottom paint, this probably isn't an issue, but still it's a concern. Except for the propeller and the controllers, I'm thinking that this device is probably not a candidate for an occasional rebuild. I think it probably requires total replacement when the propulsion unit dies. This is becoming more or less standard design philosophy with appliances these days.
I like the fact the installation is hardly invasive; this installation could be easily "undone" later.
I'm still looking at various thrusters..., and the possibility of just not having one. I'm interested in this because I want to be able to more easily maneuver in close quarters either single-handed or short handed, and my boat displaces about 18,000 pounds loaded for cruising. That's just too much for me to yank around solo.
Thoughts?
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott