Gas station blues

[John Vigor]

Sorry this is off-topic, but I know this board has more than its fair share of geniuses and Mensa sailors, and I seek their help. I'll try to keep it short.

My local Chevron gas station, after a face-lift, now has one gasoline hose per filling station instead of the three hoses it used to have for three different grades of non-leaded.

Now, instead of choosing the correct hose, I simply have to push the correct button--for 87, 89, or 92.

Now here's the rub. My car needs 92. But what if the guy before me bought 87? Is the hose I'm about to use for my 92 still filled with 87? In other words, is my 92 being diluted by what's left in the hose from the previous customer? Anybody know how this works?

Should I be mad? Should I complain to my senator? If not, why not?

Cheers,

John V.

[Michael Abramson]

Yes, you should be concerned, at least if you buy gas by the ounce.

[Neil Gordon]

Check if the hose is connected way up high. If it is, the hose will be empty from there to the nozzle. Of course, then it depends where the various grades enter the hose, in a place you can't readily see.

Just to be safe, I'd hang out until you can go right after a guy who pushes the button for the super premium enhanced rocket fuel grade.

[Gary M]

John,

If I happen to be at the same gas station, I'd let you pump 4 or 5 gallons into my tank just so you could be absolutely sure!

Gary

[Carl Thunberg]

My company happens to work on a lot of gas station renovations, so I know a little bit about how these pumps are constructed.

I have the same problem, but for a different reason. My van runs just fine on 87 octane. I run 93 octane in my small engines (outboard, lawn mower, chain saw, snowblower). On the advice of my small engine repair shop, I only buy one gallon at a time, so I always have fresh gas. Beyond the hose, there is a mixer in the guts of the pump dispenser that pumps from whichever tank you select. From that mixer to the top of the high point of the hose is full of whatever the customer purchased before you. Since I only buy one gallon at a time when I buy 93 octane, I seriously wonder how much 93 octane I'm buying.

Over the course of an 18-gallon fill, I don't think it would make much of a difference, but for one gallon, it could make a big difference.

But I do question the premise. Your car may or may not need to run on higher octane gas. If your car doesn't ping with 87 or 89 octane, then it doesn't "need" it. At least that's what Tom & Ray, the Car Guys say. Unless, of course, you're driving a Ferrari

[darmoose]

John,

I have worked in the oil business for over 35 years at many different jobs. You are exactly right in that you will get some (very little ) of the gas the guy before you purchased.

I suggest that if this concerns you, that you wait at the gas station to follow behind someone who has purchased the same premium gas you wish to purchase..

Happy Motoring

Darrell

[Steve Laume]

Cruise night or follow the Harley guys around until they either stop at the bar or the gas station, Steve.

[Oswego John]

Well, I am certainly not an expert on this subject. Actually, I know very little about it, only what I have been told. My late brother-in-law had owned several filling stations.

According to him, you can be as careful as possible and take every precaution to get the correct octane, but I wish you luck. You really don't know for sure what blend octane you are pumping.

I was told that it is common practice (albeit probably a tad illegal if you are caught) for a gas delivery of several thousands gallons of one octane to have a few hundred gallons left over, so they dump the balance into another tank with a different octane rating.This works in both directions. 92 octane can be dumped into a lower octane tank.

If anyone wants to really sing the gas station blues, come to the east coast and fill up at a Sunoco service station. Each Sunoco pump has maybe six or more octane selections in one unit.

Go green, burn wood. (Think Stanley Steamer)
O J

[John Vigor]

John,

I have worked in the oil business for over 35 years at many different jobs. You are exactly right in that you will get some (very little ) of the gas the guy before you purchased.
Darrell

That's exactly what I suspected, Darrell. That means I could be paying the 92-octane price for a hose full of 87-octane gas.

It's the principle that bothers me. How do the oil companies get away with this? Why do our regulators let them?

John V.

[Neil Gordon]

It's the principle that bothers me. How do the oil companies get away with this? Why do our regulators let them?

The pumps were redesigned because it costs less to build a pump with one hose instead of three. Have you noticed that the stations with the single hose style pumps charge less per gallon than the one's with the old fashioned, costly, three hose variety?

[Maine Sail]

There are very few cars today that won't run on 87. The computers adjust for octane very easily. During the last gas price boom even companies like BMW, Volvo, Audi & Volkswagen admitted that their cars will indeed run just fine on 87 despite what it says in the manual or on the dash board.

Believe me I know first hand as my wife has filled our M3 with 87 more than once. While it may not perform and develop exactly the same HP it does not ping and drives perfectly fine on 87. Even as a self admitted HP junkie and car guy I can hardly tell the difference between 87 & 91. Who is really using all of the horse power on a regular basis anyway. Hell 87 is probably safer to have my wife using when she drives the "fun car" anyway..

As for the hose issue I always run our cars almost completely out before refilling so even a half gallon of 87 is diluted by 16-20 gallons of 91.

[John Danicic]

John:

They say the unexamined life is not worth living. You John have a very worthwhile life.

Great observation. Now I'm going to rotate my eggs.

Sail on

John Danicic
CD36 - Mariah - #124
Lake Superior - The Apostle Islands
CDSOA # 655

[John Vigor]

John:

They say the unexamined life is not worth living. You John have a very worthwhile life.

Great observation. Now I'm going to rotate my eggs.

Sail on

John Danicic
CD36 - Mariah - #124
Lake Superior - The Apostle Islands
CDSOA # 655

Well, John, life around here needs to be examined carefully because so many people seem intent on thwarting my ambitions.

I mean, how the heck am I supposed to get my regular pint of fresh 92-octane gas for my new helicopter? It's powered by a two-stroke engine and is being used for certain experiments. But how the heck can I ever be sure of getting 92-octane gas any more?

However, my need for 92-octane gas is not the issue here. The real issue is that the gas station charges me the 92-octane price for 87-octane gas. If I could find out how much gas remains in the hose, I would demand an appropriate refund when I was asked to pay the 92-octane price for my full purchase of gas.

I am amazed that customers will lie down and let the gas stations run steamrollers all over them like this. Of course, I understand that each time someone gets "hosed" in this fashion, we're only talking pennies, but if you care to multiply those pennies by the number of hosefuls pumped all over the country every day, it will add up to thousands or maybe millions.

And the further thought strikes me that I am subsidizing the customer behind me who only wants 87 octane. He's getting a nice little squirt of 92 octane to boost his performance, and I'm paying for it. I don't like it one little bit.

By the way, do you rotate your eggs 20 degrees a day as I rotate the wine bottles in my cellar, or do you go for the full 180 every time?

Best,

John V.

[darmoose]

John,

Not only do you you get a hose full, but you get whats in the internal piping from the mixing valve to the hose connection (from deep in the bowels of the beast)

And, did you know that gasoline expands significantly with ambiemt temperature rising? So, when you are paying for that 92 octans while getting 87 octane, if its summertime (when the livin is easy), you are paying with non expanding money while the gasoline is getting less dense by the degree (something like as much as 7-10%), thereby reducing total volume and power capabilities.

There's more, but I can't bring myself to tatter your sole any further this morning...

Darrell

[Amgine]

You might be more concerned with the method of achieving the 92 octane. There's more than one 'brand' of fuel using alcohol to bring the octane up.

You could make complaints, but the economics of the situation is you can either pay for weights and measures enforcement (taxes), or you can pay for quality service from the fuel supplier. Usually the guy with the old, single hose per pump, is *not* more expensive in the long run. For one thing, his pumps are paid for rather than leased.