seacocks help cannot open leaks 1 drop/10 secs

[marv brinn]

mine is frozen more or less .on the head of the cd27
we didnt drain it when it was hauled and now I think its distorted.If I tighten the nuts it will only leak one drop/10 seconds.If I loosen the nut 1-2 turns it leaks more and is still Hard to turn open..I have filled the output tube with marvel oil and it still is hard to open in fact ]it wll not open...can I repair it in the water? ha ha if she is hauled can I regring the taper plug or just use a new one or am i in for a new spartan seacock 250 bucks...

[Jim Walsh]

If the water is warm enough or you have a wetsuit just plug the throughhull opening and dismantle the seacock for what we hope is routine maintenence. I serviced four while my boat was still hauled this spring in a couple hours.

[Oswego John]

Hi Marv,

Your problem doesn't sound like it's an easy or quick fix. I wouldn't advise you to try the repair while in the water. It's going to cost you a few bucks to get the sea cock working, whether to repair the original or to install a new one. What does travel lift service or crane service cost ? (both out and back in again)

Hopefully, you will find that it will be routine maintenance like Jim mentions.

From what you tell us, there is some motion when you loosen and then tighten the cone. You could try backing the nut off, leaving it on the end of the thread to protect the end threads. Lightly tap the end nut with a deadblow hammer to try to shock the cone loose.

It sounds to me that there is some galling between the metal surfaces. If there are any crevices or cracks in the mating surfaces or distortion, you can tighten the nut with all your strength and never stop the dripping.

What you might try is, after the cone is removed, coat it with machinist's blue. Lap the cone's surface lightly with fine emery cloth to expose any irregularities. High spots and valleys will become evident.

Scratches and gouges can be filled but you will need some expertise to do it. If in doubt of your abilities get someone who can to do the following TEMPORARY fix

Lap down the high spots. Clean, flux and fill the gouges with solder. Yeah, I said it was temporary. Use a flap sander to lightly clean up the core. Using valve grinding compound, lap the cone into the core. Rotate the cone now and then while you work until you have good movement. Be careful not to overgrind anything. Apply the old faithful Morey's Red grease to all contact surfaces and moving parts.

Hopefully, it will only require routine servicing.

I have used 60/40 solder. I feel that silver solder, while being stronger, requires too much heat for flow.

BTW, I heard on tonight's news that they rescued two men from their sinking boat on Oneida Lake today. (06/14/09) They said that they were working on a valve. Be careful.

Good luck,
O J

[J D]

Hi Marv, I had my head stop taking sea water once and found I had a growth of weed over the through hull. I was able to reach it at arms length from my inflatable. I don't think you would have to get in the water to put a plug in it.

[Boyd]

I routinely service my seacocks with the boat in the water. Since I haul every 2 - 3 years (Florida) and the seacocks start malfunctioning about every 6 months I either plug them from the outside as Marv suggested or just deal with the water by stuffing in a wet rag to slow down the flow. Short sections of the pool noodle work fairly well as plugs.

If you panic when you see the water coming in, just put the seacock plug back in, take a deep breath and go at it again.

Lap and regrease them. One of the secrets seems to be to get the lapping compound cleaned off the body and plug completely. Cleaning the plug with some solvent and paper towels is easy. I use a wet rag to clean the inside of the body as good as is possible with the water streaming in. Use Morrey's Red grease, it seems to last the longest.

You probably just have the usual wear induced leakage.

Make sure your bilge pump is working well and the battery charged before starting.

Some of the seacocks are at places where the rather disturbing quantity of water that comes in when you take out the plug doesnt even make a mess. The raw water intake in the bilge comes to mind. Admittedly the head seacocks are a bit more problematic.

The worst that could happen is when your done the darn thing just keeps leaking with a slow drip till you can get it hauled.

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

[Matt Cawthorne]

I did the same thing one winter about 12 years ago. After removing the existing nuts I put a nut on the end of the threads and proceeded to tap it. Nothing. Then I proceeded to firmly tap it. Nothing. The came the out and out rough hammering on it. It did come out then. Do your have room for a good hammer swing? When the plug came out I examined it. The ice forced the plug to bulge into the inlet and outlet pipes. I filed the bulges off and then proceeded to lap it in. The whole process took about 4 hours. When finished, I asked myself 'am I ever going to trust this thing, given how hard it had been hit? ' The answer came back a resounding 'no'! So I ended up replacing it...


Now for the good news. Unless you are going offshore you may be able to flush the head with fresh water. On our cd36 we put water in the head using the shower nozzle. This cuts down on the smell in the boat. My recommendation is to make a plug out of ethafoam and plug it up for the season. Deal with it in the fall.

Matt

[Steve Laume]

If the plug is frozen in place it may be better to tap the handle rather than the end of the plug.

Loosen up the nuts, spray it with PB Blaster, let it set for a while then tap the handle to the side just like you are trying to operate the seacock. This seems to pop it right loose. You get much more leverage with the twisting motion rather than trying to push it out. There is also no chance of bending the stud. As soon as it breaks loose it should come right out.

Make sure to loosen the nuts before you start tapping on the handle, Steve.

[Starfish]

I purchased a 1983 CD25D last fall. Had a survey, which showed that the seacocks were "stiff" and it was recommended that they be serviced, but they did not appear to be leaking then. So, I had the boat yard, where the boat was moored when I bought her, do the work over the winter. They cleaned them, and used that red grease stuff I read about on this board, and replaced them. They then delivered the boat by land to a marina nearby (40 miles away) Reading the description of the work performed on the work order says "remove head intake seacock, wire wheel, and grease, reassemble". Could they have taken too much off the barrel, so it no longer fits well, and therefore leaks? But the description of the work done on the other 4 does not say "wire wheel".....(what does that mean anyway?) and only says remove, clean, grease, replace.

The servicing boat yard says they will come to check the seacocks tomorrow. They told me that they had another CD that had the same problem. So, they ended up replacing all of the seacocks with plastic ones. At this point, I am wondering if I am getting a line designed to get them off the hook. I mean why would you put back "bad" sea cocks. Why wasn't I told of this problem when they were out of the boat last winter? They are leaking from the barrel.

Any help/support/advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks.

[bottomscraper]

Reading the description of the work performed on the work order says "remove head intake seacock, wire wheel, and grease, reassemble". Could they have taken too much off the barrel, so it no longer fits well, and therefore leaks?

I suspect they used a steel wire brush, maybe on an angle grinder or bench grinder. In either case this was the wrong thing to do. They very well may have damaged the barrel. I don't know if it is beyond repair but it does sound like they don't have a clue what they are doing. You may be able to lap them with valve grinding compound and get them leak free. I would not trust that yard to do anything on my boat again.

If the seacock was not leaking last season proper servicing should not make it worse. Servicing seacocks is not rocket science.

[Starfish]

Thanks, Rich, for your quick reply.

Well, I have three out of five seacocks leaking. I don't know what to do about this. If I let the yard work on them and they still leak, I'll have the expense again, of hauling out and replacing them, assuming they can't be serviced because they are "too far gone". Somehow, I find that hard to believe, but I suppose it could be. The boat isn't new, and the party who owned her before me, probably hadn't serviced them in a while.

Isn't there any way to test them before launching to see if they are ok??

Linda

[Oswego John]

Hi Linda,

Yes, there is a way that I have tested them.

What is the ID (inside diameter) of the through hulls for all the sea cocks be tested? I need to know.

O J

[Starfish]

Hi OJ,

I have no idea what the inside diameter is of the seacocks. There are 3 that are the largest (2 cockpit scuppers, and 1 waste discharge from holding tank), then there's the sink, and head intake ones, which are smaller. These are the original Spartan seacocks for the CD 25 D.

Don't know if Spartan has the specs on these diameters you want to know?

[Oswego John]

Hi Linda,

Well, actually, I was concerned with the ID of each through hull fitting. But no problem.

I'll be sending you a PM soon.

O J

[Matt Cawthorne]

Linda,
The wire wheel comment is scary. It would be fine for them do do external cosmetic cleanup with a wire brush provided they did not wire wheel the tapered plug itself. If they did brush the plug or inside of the housing, then they were not following the manufacturers recommendations and it would be incumbent on them to lap them back to normal function using manufacturers recommended procedures without you spending an extra dime.
There are some other things that are reasonably minor that they might have done. In an effort to not over-tighten them they may have under tightened them. The seacocks should move easily, but should take more than a few ounces of pressure. If you give it a fast push using your fingers without moving your wrist or arm, it should stop immediately after leaving your fingers. If it rotates more than additional inch or two then it is probably too loose and your problem might be corrected within a few minutes.
There is a washer that is designed to be keyed to the end of the tapered plug. This washer has a bent tang that forms the stop it's outside. If the mechanic did not seat this washer correctly then all of the tightening in the world will not bring the plug to the correct depth. This can be remedied by loosening the two nuts on the end of the seacock and adjusting the washer until it seats on the end of the plug roughly aligned with the handle. When it is in position, it may rotate a couple of degrees, but no more. If it rotates more than this then it is not seated. Move it around until it is seated and adjust the first nut to make the seacock stop dripping and so that it moves smoothly. Use the second nut as the lock nut.
So what happens if the yard did hit them with a wire wheel? It may be possible to lap them back to conformance, but perhaps not. If the cone is reduced in size to the point that the washer on the end of the seacock seats on the end of the plug without pulling the cone in far enough, then the seacock is probably not salvageable. If they are disreputable, then they may try and over tighten them to get them to stop leaking. If you can not move them relatively easily, then pursue getting them to do the job correctly.
Don't let them give you any line that they are supposed to be so tight that only King Kong can move them, or that they are supposed to leak a little, or that leaking is normal. None of the above are true.

Matt

[Steve Laume]

Or it could be as simple as they tightened it right down until they squeezed all the grease out of it, then loosened them up just enough to move and leak. There is a definite tendency to do this if you are not sure how tight they should be, Steve.