Fuel questions

[cguthrie]

I'm thinking about relocating my mooring to a place that doesn't have a fuel dock and I'm wondering about the logistics of keeping the tank filled. We have a Yanmar 8 diesel.
1. I read that the only difference between auto diesel and marine diesel are taxes and dye. Is that right? -- so if I don't mind paying a little extra to avoid having to motor to a port with a fuel dock I shouldn't have a problem?
2. I'm wondering about the safety of keeping an emergency fuel supply in a secondary plastic can aboard. Do other folks do that as a matter of course? In general I try to keep explosive things to a minimum on the boat.

[mahalocd36]

Yes the only difference is tax and dye - you cannot legally use marine fuel in a on-road vehicle ($10000 fine!) but you can go the other way.

Keep the fuel above deck (diesel goes in yellow plastic tanks, not red like gas, by convention) and maintain the usual precautions around it regarding smoking, sparks, etc. Cruisers often have a few of those yellow tanks strapped along their lifelines. When we are going somewhere extended we carry extra fuel that way.
We also have used them if we are somewhere that doesn't easily accomodate our boat at the dock for whatever reason.

[Neil Gordon]

Diesel is non-explosive, unlike gasoline. It's safely stored on board but you do want to protect against spills.

As for price, diesel with tax purchased on land is likely to be less expensive than dyed diesel with no tax purchased at a marina.

[Russell]

I'm thinking about relocating my mooring to a place that doesn't have a fuel dock and I'm wondering about the logistics of keeping the tank filled. We have a Yanmar 8 diesel.
1. I read that the only difference between auto diesel and marine diesel are taxes and dye. Is that right? -- so if I don't mind paying a little extra to avoid having to motor to a port with a fuel dock I shouldn't have a problem?
2. I'm wondering about the safety of keeping an emergency fuel supply in a secondary plastic can aboard. Do other folks do that as a matter of course? In general I try to keep explosive things to a minimum on the boat.

Yes, just taxes and dye. Go ahead and use highway diesel for your boat. Keeping a jerry can of diesel aboard is completely safe so long as it is secure when underway. Diesel is not explosive like gasoline and very safe.

[Sea Hunt]

Hello Cliff:

The board has not heard from you guys in a long while, possibly more than a year. I remember you from the August 2007 CDSOA Maine rendevous. Despite the problems you had you and your entire family were the most cheerful, happy go lucky folks. It was inspirational.

If willing to disclose, I for one would be interested to learn what you finally decided to do about the Yanmar, etc. If I recall correctly, you were thinking about a rebuild or a replacement and weighing options after learning about problems related (or unrelated ) to the exhaust riser.

Whatever you decided with the engine, I am glad you decided to keep your CD 27. She is a beauty.

[Jim Sullivan]

Hi:

"I read that the only difference between auto diesel and marine diesel are taxes and dye. Is that right?"

Yes. I have never bought fuel at a fuel dock, always at an automotive service station. This I did for the Yanmar 1GM in the CD22D and now for the Yanmar 4 cyl. 75 hp. in my downeast boat. I asked the service station owner about low sulfur fuel, lubricity and cetane number. This info was all furnished to me. I have never had a fuel problem.

"I'm wondering about the safety of keeping an emergency fuel supply in a secondary plastic can aboard. Do other folks do that as a matter of course? In general I try to keep explosive things to a minimum on the boat."

I.M.H.O., there is no need on a routine basis to keep a supply of diesel fuel on board. I never did. I would recommend that you don't store extra fuel on board for safety reasons. The risks are just too great. Rather, bring fuel aboard as you need it or go to a fuel dock. I always top off the tank when the fuel is down in each tank about 1/4. This translates in my case to bringing diesel fuel aboard in an approved 5-gal. container about once every 7-10 days. I am adding about 2.5 gal. to each 17-gal. fuel tank. With the 1GM, you would likely be adding at any one time less volume and less frequently than me. If I recall correctly, I had approx. an 11-gal. tank on my former CD22D. I don't think I used more than 1-2 gal. of fuel per season with a consumption of 0.2-0.3 gal./hr.

Jim

[Cathy Monaghan]

Hi Cliff,

Good to hear from you

We always carry at least one yellow 5-gallon jug of diesel aboard our boat. And, like somebody else mentioned, sometimes it's easier to top off the tank from the jug than it is to pull the boat up to a dock so we just put the jug in the dinghy and get it refilled. The biggest issue is spillage. You do not want any of it to find its way into the water, so use a pump.

We plan on sailing up to Maine again this year. Hope to see you then.

Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Joe CD MS 300]

Agreed that diesel is very safe especially as compared with gasoline. However it's flash point is lower than I would have guessed. In certain hot regions, under a hot sun the temp in an engine room could get close or above the flash point.

From Wikipidia:


[edit] Examples of flash points
Fuel Flash point Autoignition
temperature
Ethanol 12.8°C (55°F) 365°C (689°F)
Gasoline (petrol) <−40°C (−40°F) 246°C (475°F)
Diesel >62°C (143°F) 210°C (410°F)
Jet fuel >38°C (100°F) 210°C (410°F)
Kerosene (paraffin oil) >38–72°C (100–162°F) 220°C (428°F)
Vegetable oil (canola) 327°C (620°F)[1]
Biodiesel >130°C (266°F)


Gasoline (petrol) is designed for use in an engine which is driven by a spark. The fuel should be premixed with air within its flammable limits and heated above its flash point, then ignited by the spark plug. The fuel should not preignite in the hot engine. Therefore, gasoline is required to have a low flash point and a high autoignition temperature.




Diesel is designed for use in a high-compression engine. Air is compressed until it has been heated above the autoignition temperature of diesel; then the fuel is injected as a high-pressure spray, keeping the fuel-air mix within the flammable limits of diesel. There is no ignition source. Therefore, diesel is required to have a high flash point and a low autoignition temperature.





Diesel flash points vary between 126°F and 204°F (52°C-96°C/WJ). Jet fuels also vary greatly. Both Jet A and jet A-1 have flash points between 100°F and 150°F (38°C-66°C/WJ), close to that of off the shelf kerosene. However, both Jet B and FP-4 have flash points between -10°F and +30°F (-23°C - -1°C/WJ)


Joe

[The Patriot]

... I'm wondering about the safety of keeping an emergency fuel supply in a secondary plastic can aboard ...

For liquid transfers I have found nothing to compare with this siphon:

http://www.shammysolutions.com/site/161 ... uct/100-23

I keep one for diesel transfers and a second for water transfer (e.g., to fill sun showers from the main water tanks). You can transfer from diesel jugs underway with no spills. Outstanding inexpensive product.

[Russell]

... I'm wondering about the safety of keeping an emergency fuel supply in a secondary plastic can aboard ...

For liquid transfers I have found nothing to compare with this siphon:

http://www.shammysolutions.com/site/161 ... uct/100-23

I keep one for diesel transfers and a second for water transfer (e.g., to fill sun showers from the main water tanks). You can transfer from diesel jugs underway with no spills. Outstanding inexpensive product.

Handy looking product, I am certainly going to order one its cheap enough to give a try for sure. I fuel my boat up almost strictly from jerry cans since I like to filter it myself before it goes in the tank and the fill location on the CD36 is rather annoying to use with cans.

[mahalocd36]

... I'm wondering about the safety of keeping an emergency fuel supply in a secondary plastic can aboard ...

For liquid transfers I have found nothing to compare with this siphon:

http://www.shammysolutions.com/site/161 ... uct/100-23

I keep one for diesel transfers and a second for water transfer (e.g., to fill sun showers from the main water tanks). You can transfer from diesel jugs underway with no spills. Outstanding inexpensive product.

Handy looking product, I am certainly going to order one its cheap enough to give a try for sure. I fuel my boat up almost strictly from jerry cans since I like to filter it myself before it goes in the tank and the fill location on the CD36 is rather annoying to use with cans.

I'm curious how long it takes to empty a 5 gallon can of diesel?

[The Patriot]

... I'm curious how long it takes to empty a 5 gallon can of diesel?

Very imprecisely, something on the order of 3 or 4 minutes, but I don't rush the job. One thing is certain: this gadget meant the end of spills on my boat.

[Dean Abramson]

Cliff,

We carry a one-gallon can of diesel. It is not primarily for if we run out. it is for filling the fuel filter with diesel when I change it, or other incidental uses. Like if I decide to add some biocide, and need something to wash it down with.

It is terrific to hear that you are back in the game. I also would be interested to hear your tales from Engine Land.

But I also understand that you may just as soon not go there. I have plenty of tales like that, that I keep locked away!

Have a great season. Hope to see you out there. Come on down to the Casco Bay Float-In:
http://www.capedory.org/fleetevents/NE- ... n_Info.pdf

Fair Winds,

Dean

[Dixon Hemphill]

Very interesting and informative discussion. For years I have been getting my diesel at a service station close to my marina. I store three cans in the port cockpit locker right beside the 10 gallon fuel tank. The 3 gallon plastic cans are secured on a platform I built using a flat board with fiddles high enough to prevent the cans from moving. These cans are located about 3-4 feet from the 2GM20F Yanmar.

When I need to add fuel to my tank I pour diesel from one of the cans into the port deck fill through a filter being careful not to spill any on the deck.

Question: Am I OK using this way of carrying and using diesel?

[Wayne Grenier]

Also-if you get your diesel from a truck stop it is less likely to be old-stale or contaminated by water-(assuming you get it from a busy truck stop)-I agree-its a pain to pull up to the fuel dock sometimes and I also agree that you should carry a 1 gallon jug of diesel in case you nee to change a fuel filter-