I have discovered that the chain plates on "new" 1980 CD 27 are significantly rusty and have to be addressed. I am sure it will be expensive. Has anyone considered moving the chain plates on a Cape Dory to the outside hull? If so, can you provide details and photo of the completed work. Are there issues that I need to consider, such as whether the structure of the hull can handle this unintended stress?
George
Rusty Chain Plates
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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George Hare
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Feb 10th, '06, 04:54
- Location: '85 Typhoon WE & '80 CD 27 Oriental, NC
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Sea Hunt
- Posts: 1310
- Joined: Jan 29th, '06, 23:14
- Location: Former caretaker of 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender (Hull #1400) "S/V Tadpole"
Hello George:
I believe Fred Bickum did this to his CD 28 when he prepared S/V Fenix for his around the world adventure. He has a detailed website with pictures, descriptions, etc.
I am not sure if his website details the repositioning of the chainplates.
If anyone knows about the pros and cons (if any) of moving the chainplates to the exterior hull it would be Mr. Bickum.
In terms of safety, if Mr. Bickum did it, I am sure it was to improve the safety issue. Aesthetically, I really like the look of chainplates on the outside of the hull. Cape Dory sailboats are designed with a classic hull shape thanks to Mr. Alberg. I think exterior chainplates gives Cape Dory sailboats an even more classic traditional look.
I believe I first saw exterior chainplates on a boat designed by Lyle Hess - a Bristol Channel Cutter. It just looked "cool"
I believe Fred Bickum did this to his CD 28 when he prepared S/V Fenix for his around the world adventure. He has a detailed website with pictures, descriptions, etc.
I am not sure if his website details the repositioning of the chainplates.
If anyone knows about the pros and cons (if any) of moving the chainplates to the exterior hull it would be Mr. Bickum.
In terms of safety, if Mr. Bickum did it, I am sure it was to improve the safety issue. Aesthetically, I really like the look of chainplates on the outside of the hull. Cape Dory sailboats are designed with a classic hull shape thanks to Mr. Alberg. I think exterior chainplates gives Cape Dory sailboats an even more classic traditional look.
I believe I first saw exterior chainplates on a boat designed by Lyle Hess - a Bristol Channel Cutter. It just looked "cool"
Fair winds,
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
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Wayne Grenier
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Mar 7th, '06, 18:30
- Location: 1974 CD 28 Meantime
Everybody has rusty chain plates-they are not chain plates-they are a piece of steel that cape dory used as a "backing plate"-the bolts that hold your "pad eyes" in place are installed through the deck-through the hull lip and then through the backing plate-whether or not the backing plate is even necessary is a question in my mind as I have seen the way other manufacturers install their chain plates-however-all you have to do is get the bolts off then fabric a new backing plate out of wood, aluminum or stainless-drill new holes for your bolts using the bolt pattern from the deck and then decide if you want to leave the steel plate and just go over it or remove it entirely-the bow and stern have easy access but the port and starboard plates are going to require some removal of the bulkheads/cabinetry-
Ita not a big job-and its not expensive-and if you do some exploring you will probaly find there is a lot of steel still left-on my boat they must have used a 3' long piece of steel on the port and starboard sides-the pad esys fro the upper and lower stays go through this as well as the life line stanchion bolts etc-I have no idea why they did this as it seems like overkill to me-the fiberglass in the area where they put the pad eyes is a at least several inches of pure fiberglass-I cannot see how these bolts (which are stainless thank god) would ever fail-I would think you would see the pad eyes loosen first or the deck start pulling up-but I did reinforce the backing plates with aluminum just so I could sleep better at night-
Up in the bow you will find you brass bow shoe is secured to the boat with 6 bolts-through reinforced fiberglass and steel plates-
many amnufacuters bolt a "chain plate" or a 1/8 piece of stainless vertically through the deck with a hole on the top for your turnbuckle-this chain plate is then either secured to a bulkhead with 3-4 bolts or through the side of the hull-its nowehere near as beefy as what CApe Dory did-I am still sailing around with my "chainplates" pretty much originaly intact-do they have some rust? sure-but I really doubt the pad eyes are going anywhere-I can only imagine the fight they would put up if you acutally tried to remove them-
Ita not a big job-and its not expensive-and if you do some exploring you will probaly find there is a lot of steel still left-on my boat they must have used a 3' long piece of steel on the port and starboard sides-the pad esys fro the upper and lower stays go through this as well as the life line stanchion bolts etc-I have no idea why they did this as it seems like overkill to me-the fiberglass in the area where they put the pad eyes is a at least several inches of pure fiberglass-I cannot see how these bolts (which are stainless thank god) would ever fail-I would think you would see the pad eyes loosen first or the deck start pulling up-but I did reinforce the backing plates with aluminum just so I could sleep better at night-
Up in the bow you will find you brass bow shoe is secured to the boat with 6 bolts-through reinforced fiberglass and steel plates-
many amnufacuters bolt a "chain plate" or a 1/8 piece of stainless vertically through the deck with a hole on the top for your turnbuckle-this chain plate is then either secured to a bulkhead with 3-4 bolts or through the side of the hull-its nowehere near as beefy as what CApe Dory did-I am still sailing around with my "chainplates" pretty much originaly intact-do they have some rust? sure-but I really doubt the pad eyes are going anywhere-I can only imagine the fight they would put up if you acutally tried to remove them-
One word for exterior chainplates...
"Hideous".
It's like putting dental head gear on the Mona Lisa.
She might have a mouth full of braces, but she soesn't want anyone to see them.
Please don't do that to your pretty boat.
Just my opinion...
Diana
It's like putting dental head gear on the Mona Lisa.
She might have a mouth full of braces, but she soesn't want anyone to see them.
Please don't do that to your pretty boat.
Just my opinion...
Diana
s/v aja
1977 cd25 #530
Fairhaven, MA
NE Fleet Member since 2002
1977 cd25 #530
Fairhaven, MA
NE Fleet Member since 2002
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Sea Hunt
- Posts: 1310
- Joined: Jan 29th, '06, 23:14
- Location: Former caretaker of 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender (Hull #1400) "S/V Tadpole"
As an Italian with deep ancestral feelings, I will thank you kindly not to place in my head the image of our beloved Mona Lisa with braces. 
That said, I remain steadfast and resolute in my belief that certain sailboats, especially classics, are enhanced with the addition of external chainplates. I would, respectfully, urge you to look at Mr. Bickum's website for pictures of S/V Fenix with external chainplates or the Bristol Channel Cutters on the Sam Morse website.
I know the word "pirate" has a particular and well deserved negative impact these days, so I will say that I think external chainplates give some (not all) classic sailboats a "rakish buccaneer" look. Aarrgghh 
That said, I remain steadfast and resolute in my belief that certain sailboats, especially classics, are enhanced with the addition of external chainplates. I would, respectfully, urge you to look at Mr. Bickum's website for pictures of S/V Fenix with external chainplates or the Bristol Channel Cutters on the Sam Morse website.
I know the word "pirate" has a particular and well deserved negative impact these days, so I will say that I think external chainplates give some (not all) classic sailboats a "rakish buccaneer" look.
Aarrgghh Fair winds,
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Seahunt,
I have seen the photos of Fenix & others - and I have seen many chainplate "braces" up close and personal and I stand by my opinion - yuck.
Cape Dorys maybe hardy and rough and tough as pirates on the inside, and they sail like the big boys, but on the outside they are elegant ladies and should be treated as such, with real teak trim and no braces.
Don't say aaargghh -say uugghh!
Diana
As a Cape Dorian with equally deep ancestral feelings, I would thank you to kindly not put in my head the image of our beloved Cape Dorys with external chainplates.As an Italian with deep ancestral feelings, I will thank you kindly not to place in my head the image of our beloved Mona Lisa with braces.
I have seen the photos of Fenix & others - and I have seen many chainplate "braces" up close and personal and I stand by my opinion - yuck.
Cape Dorys maybe hardy and rough and tough as pirates on the inside, and they sail like the big boys, but on the outside they are elegant ladies and should be treated as such, with real teak trim and no braces.
Don't say aaargghh -say uugghh!
Diana
s/v aja
1977 cd25 #530
Fairhaven, MA
NE Fleet Member since 2002
1977 cd25 #530
Fairhaven, MA
NE Fleet Member since 2002
NIX the external chain plate idea - PRONTO!
I saw a CD30 ketch that had been abused that way years ago and it was terrible to look at! Please, please, don't do that to such a beauty!
-michael
-michael
-michael & Toni CDSOA #789
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
External chainplates are smart and practical, if I every found evidence of problems with my chainplates and had to replace them, I would certainly go external while at it.
On modern wide beam boats internal chainplates are really the only option, but on narrow beam boats like ours there is really no reason to have them internal.
I have no problem with how they look, and besides function and safety should always trump cosmetics.
On modern wide beam boats internal chainplates are really the only option, but on narrow beam boats like ours there is really no reason to have them internal.
I have no problem with how they look, and besides function and safety should always trump cosmetics.
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
Very good point, Russell!Russell wrote:I have no problem with how they look, and besides function and safety should always trump cosmetics.
-michael & Toni CDSOA #789
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
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George Hare
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Feb 10th, '06, 04:54
- Location: '85 Typhoon WE & '80 CD 27 Oriental, NC
rusty chain plates
I have received valuable feedback everyone regarding my question about outside chain plates. I have decided to remain committed to resolving the problem with an internal solution and keeping the original appearance of my boat. I was really encouraged that what may appear exigent to my inexperienced eyes, may not be so urgent and that I should take time to consult with experts in my home port of Oriental, NC before I panic. I still fear that I must brace myself for major sticker shock at the cost of any option. But I intend to keep this beautiful CD 27 (as well as my prettier CD TY) and the investment will be worth it.
If anyone has approached and solved this issue with a more moderate option than complete invasion and removal of original backing plates, such as selective reinforcement of the steel, I would love to hear how that was done.
Thanks to everyone.
George
If anyone has approached and solved this issue with a more moderate option than complete invasion and removal of original backing plates, such as selective reinforcement of the steel, I would love to hear how that was done.
Thanks to everyone.
George