Armed voyagers

[Ron M.]

KearyDeare makes a very important point: any responsible gun owner, wether having a license to carry concealed, or having a weapon aboard, would NEVER advertise the fact. Anything other should raise a red flag.
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Gl1500

[Jim Davis]

Note the Feds take a dim view of these inserts.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/050406_firelauncher.htm

On the general topic, I agree with Ron in that having a weapon on board should never be discussed with anyone except law enforcement personnel. I would recommend that anyone having one on board also keep it out of sight from visitors. There is no need for anyone but the owner and his wife knowing about it.

To have or not is a personal decision that is not to be made lightly or emotionally.

[S/V Necessity]

I just wanted to throw my two cents in and agree with Ron and KearyDeare. In my experience most people are very wary about letting anyone know they have a gun. As they should be. I took a conceal and carry class and the instructor went to great pains stress the importance of "Conceal" He equated a failure to conceal, to farting in church.

Point is, among many gun owners there is a code of keeping very quiet. This of course is going to introduce a strong bias in any discussion. Furthermore simply taking a stance in this discussion shows your cards so to speak. Something to consider.

[Carl Thunberg]

The vast majority of firearms owners (myself included) are responsible citizens. However, like any group, there are a small minority of irresponsible individuals who taint the entire population with their behavior.

I was a guest on-board a large trawler once. At sundown, the owner pulled out his shotgun and, completely un-announced, fired a round into the air (I hope it was blank) announcing the bar was officially open. This made me extremely uncomfortable, this combination of firearms and alcohol. In addition, he failed to control the muzzle. I quickly and politely found an excuse to go back to my boat for the evening and I never returned to that boat. For the record, Leona Pearl is un-armed, but Leona Pearl will also never sail off the coast of Somalia.

[Cathy Monaghan]

... I don't know any sailboat owners that carry arms aboard their boats ...

Cathy, I'm not sure that I understand how you can be so certain of this. I have never encountered an experienced and safety-oriented gun owner who engaged in casual conversation with strangers on subjects like self defense or home safety. If I did encounter such an individual I would be extremely wary. In fact one of the most popular "gun lobby" talking points is that concealed carry of firearms deters crime because it imposes risky uncertainties on criminals and makes them "think twice." I am not suggesting I agree or disagree with this argument, merely that I've heard it often enough to think many others do believe it.

Take a few moments to think back on how many new folks you've met on your coastal cruises over the years you've owned your sailboat, then decide how much money you are willing to wager that not a single one of them was armed.

I wouldn't say that I KNOW people that I've just met while cruising. I wouldn't even call them acquaintances. Anyway, I don't know them, I've only met them. The sailors I know, or are acquainted with, like those that keep their boats at Lockwoods, where we keep our boat, and a few CDSOA members (I don't know, nor am I acquainted with, all of them) don't carry weapons, other than flare guns, aboard their boats either. But I do know one that has a locked case full of weapons in his home.

That said, I do know some powerboaters that carry shotguns. They fish and the shotgun is for sharks.

Anyway, I was responding to John who was wondering if he was "....abnormal -- which I guess I am if the majority of boat owners carry arms.....". And what I'm saying to John is that he shouldn't think that there's anything wrong with him because he doesn't carry weapons aboard.

Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Ron M.]

I've been considering mounting a small canon or swivel gun on my stern deck to officially announce.........the day is done. I may need a different license for that however.
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Daihatsu move history

[Warren S]

they interviewed a solo sailor who wrote a book on his experience being set upon by pirates - the first words out of his mouth were that if he had a gun he wouldn't be here today. As it was, he decided to set down his machete as he ascended the companion way an decided to "welcome them aboard". it all cost him all his cigarettes, a pair of binoculars, and a bump on the head (they still knocked him around a bit).

Wished I could recall the individual's name...

[Jim Davis]

Ron

This time I will admit to being well armed. I do carry a cannon and do use it at appropriate times. Race committee, some times entering or leaving a harbor and occasional passing salutes.

I won't comment on jet skis.

http://www.arrigonidesign.com/salutingcannons.htm

[Sea Hunt]

I fully agree with those who suggest a boater (or anyone else) who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon should NEVER advertise the fact he or she is carrying a weapon (whether on his person, in his vehicle, on his boat or elsewhere). There are many, many reasons for this caution.

That said, as most know, I have decided to begin a search for a Cape Dory 25D. Based on the anecdotal information provided on this thread (my heartfelt thanks go out to Mr. Vigor) I have decided I am going to mount a Browning .50 cal machine gun on the bow of my to be acquired CD 25D and am wondering about tripod height issues and ammo box storage. Hopefully, some brown water Navy personnel will provide some valuable real world experience.

I know that mounting the .50 cal near the bow will have some unintended consequences for the Genoa during tacks and jibes. I am hopeful that the Sunbrella covering material (see below) will lessen the negative impact of this. Also, I believe I can lock the .50 cal down in such a position that it will minimize (to the extent possible) "pointy things" from catching on the Genoa as I make my graceful, totally in control, tacks and jibes.

At this point in my research I think a 4 ft 3 legged tripod secured to the deck with 3/4" stainless steel bolts (4 bolts at each leg brace), s/s backing plates (3"x3") underneath and double self locking nuts and washers should be sufficient to dampen the classic .50 cal "kick". The 4 ft height is intended to give sufficient clearance for the barrel. It would be unseemly, not to mention terribly expensive, to continually have to replace the stanchions and life lines, not to mention the bow pulpit shredded from 150-200 rds of .50 cal lead as they head down range.

Given the inherently unsteady nature of the deck on a CD 25D I am also concerned about down range accuracy but believe practice will overcome this inherent design flaw. I would welcome any advice from our "Riverine" brothers on this issue.

Ammo storage is also a concern. The forward locker is too shallow for the standard .50 cal ammo box. I am thinking of building a fiberglass and core end balsa ammo container just aft of the forward locker with sufficient space for 2-3, possibly 4 ammo boxes (~100 rds per box).

I intend to cover the .50 cal with a heavy duty Sunbrella material (to protect it from salt, dirt, bird poop, etc.) that has rapid deployment snaps fore and aft so that it can be quickly removed and the .50 cal brought to bear on the target(s).

I initially opined that carrying a weapon should be done discreetly and never "announced". This is true, except when what you intend to carry is a Browning .50 cal machine gun. Then, carry it "tall and proud" for the world to see.

Please excuse me now while I go search for my "meds". I think I left them in my nightstand next to my Sig .40.

[SurryMark]

That said, as most know, I have decided to begin a search for a Cape Dory 25D. Based on the anecdotal information provided on this thread (my heartfelt thanks go out to Mr. Vigor) I have decided I am going to mount a Browning .50 cal machine gun on the bow of my to be acquired CD 25D and am wondering about tripod height issues and ammo box storage.

This is a stupid idea. 50 cal is entirely too big for a 25D. 30cal is adequate, and having more rounds in the belt will allow a greater spread to compensate for the moving platform. Furthermore, the foredeck is a stupid place to mount the piece. Instead, CD25D owners usually cut a hole in the cabin trunk top, which has less pitching moment. Put the hole far enough aft to swing the barrel past the mast. Paint the bottom of the mast orange. Operating this equipment is not for beginners. Study. Always, for example, bear off rather than firing directly aft at a following craft. Firing directly aft can damage the depth charge launcher. As always, take care of your craft and you take care of yourself.

[Oswego John]

Robert,

Golly, gee whiz. Why didn't I ever think of a great idea like that, which I have to admit is pure genius on your part

To go a little farther with this gem, have you given any serious thought about installing a gyrostabilized gun mount that is independent of the bow deck. Rough seas (brown caps) won't be a factor.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the pulsating vibrations and noise of the staccato might drive the barnacles bananas and they would leave home for good. The bonuses are limitless.

I am so impressed. I know that you think that I'm yanking your chain, but I'm serious.

I really am.

Your friend,
O J

[Dick Kobayashi]

I find the topic of this thread and the number of responses disturbing. Come on!!!! Mostly we are coastal cruisers - all this talk of gun stuff seems inane.Besides - WINTER IS OVER. And as one wag noted if you have a gun you don't talk about it. We shouldn't be obsessing on the topic on this board - the pirates might be reading it. I propose the thread be closed.

[David van den Burgh]

I find the topic of this thread and the number of responses disturbing. Come on!!!! Mostly we are coastal cruisers - all this talk of gun stuff seems inane.Besides - WINTER IS OVER. And as one wag noted if you have a gun you don't talk about it. We shouldn't be obsessing on the topic on this board - the pirates might be reading it. I propose the thread be closed.

So long as the conversation is civil, what does it matter?

[Neil Gordon]

>>I know that mounting the .50 cal near the bow will have some unintended consequences ...<<

I know you were writing about tacking the genoa, but the most serious consequence of bow mounting is that astern is 100% vulverable. That might not be a major issue considering how easy it would be for any CD, expecially a 25D, to simply outrun pirates in an inflatable, but the better position would be twin mounts, port and starboard, on the rail at the forward end of the cockpit. That would give you 360 coverage and you could steer and shoot at the same time.

What did Dick say about the end of winter?

[Sea Hunt]

Hello Dick K.

I sincerely apologize. I was trying to add a little levity to what is a very serious subject and went "out of bounds" with my poor attempt at humor. I do apologize.

OJ, Mark and Neil were just responding to my poor attempt at humor. The fault is mine alone.

The good news is I hope to reinstall the O/B motor today - after waiting more than 2 weeks for a kill switch on back order from Suzuki. If so, conditions look good for a nice sail - 11-13 kts SSE.