Varnish

[Wayne Grenier]

I am considering sanding my toe and rub rails down to bare wood and switching from cetol to varnish-so at the risk of inciting a riot I'd like to ask what varnish people have found to give the best results-and on a related subject-since spring is approaching-I feel compelled to put in a word for the George Kirby paint company of New Bedford-who have been making their own yacht paints since 1846-they have a web sight and sell alot of paint to Mystic Seaport and through the wooden boat shows-its the best hull and deck paint I have ever found-so I will check and see if they make their own varnish-
they also make a very very potent bottom paint that remains wet and is used by commercial boats-its nasty and I am not sure if you would want to use it on a yacht-(I used to when I was a poor young man)-but it is cheaper than the standard stuff and highly effective-can you imageine how much it would cost to paint the bottom of an 80' wooden scalloper with conventional bootom paint?
I trust this unofficial endorsement won't get me into trouble-but really-these guys make great paint!

[KVickers]

This may sound a bit odd to some, but I've always loved to varnish. But bear in mind my last sailboat of eleven years was a Hallberg P-28 with an African mahogany, brightwork hull, so you have to love it. Living in Florida, the tropical sun can be a killer, and the best varnish I found, that took the summer heat the longest was Epifanes. Many years ago it was also the top tested pick of Practical Sailor as well.

[Russell]

I have not tried every product out there, but have tried a few and I find epiphanes high gloss the best to work with with very attractive results. Its not cheap though. I understand trying to save money, but varnish is one area where going for the "marine" label actually makes a difference, marine/yacht varnish has more UV inhibitors in it then less expensive varnishes sold for other uses. Your brightwork is going to be subject to constant UV and salt water, its worth paying the extra. WIth all the labor involved in refinishing, its worth it to pay the premium and know for sure you will get a good and lasting finish, then to save and experiment only to have a good chance of having to redo it next season.

[Joe CD MS 300]

I just tried the new Cetol "natural teak" on my companionway boards. Although I'm not a Cetol "hater" this is much less opaque, and I thought the tone is fairly "natural". Not much different on the sanded teak from the tone you get by just wiping with some mineral spirits or turpentine.

[trapper]

I have spent nearly a year working on Saga's (25D) bright work and it is not nearly finished. Saga's old varnish finish was a real mess. I finally got the hatch boards in shape to put a finish on them and the rest of it is in varying stages.

My CD22 had cetol on some of her bright work and I did not like it. So I decided to try Honey Teak on my sanded hatch boards.

It is better than the cetol on QT but not by much. So I have scratched my plan to use Honey Teak on all of the brightwork. I am afraid that I am not going to be satisfied with less than a deep varnish finish.

Because the old finish is still not completely off I think I will just stay natural and keep working on the old finish for a while and and see how it goes. I think I need to complete canvas to cover the bright work before I varnish.

Right now, I need to figure out how to get the honey teak off my hatch boards!

[Ed Haley]

Years ago, I was in the same camp as you - which varnish gave the best results. Rather than guess, I went to the Hinckley yard near in New England one time for their advice. I went right into the building where they were restoring several yachts to specs. One of the workmen was taking a break so I posed the question to him - Which varnish gives the best results when restoring a yacht?

His answer depended on whether the wood was old (previously varnished) or new. On new wood, the company used Epithanes for their mirror-like finish. On previous varnished wood, where the old varnish was stripped off and the wood prepared properly before application, they used Captain's Varnish. And preparation of the wood is vital. Use recommendations of the varnish manufacturer for the first few applications.

[Ed Haley]

Spot treating varnished items aboveboard that have been damaged by physical abuse (scraping, scuffing, digs, gouges, etc.) require special preparation before revarnishing. The wood spot must be dried, filled if needed, sanded and feathered. Then the wood is varnished as if you were beginning anew. That usually means at least 5 or 6 coats of varnish applied at the site and nearby so the touchup blends in. Then another coat at the end of the season. At the end of the season, it is better to apply varnish to all the brightwork aboveboard before winter layup rather than in the spring before the next season. Of course, varnishing both times would be best of all for those who, like me, actually enjoy the rite of varnishing.

Without the necessary preparation of blemished spots before varnishing guarantees the spot will fail soon afterwards even with 2 or 3 coats of varnish applied over the site. Usually, the new varnish will peel off.

[tartansailor]

Early on in my career (late 50s' early 60s') I worked for Union Carbide Plastics Co. and they manufactured the phenolic resin used in high end varnishes.
It was the consensus among the R & D staff that their varnish was superior by a wide margin to all others; because the competition used a much cheaper to manufacture resin, namely alkyds.

Phenolics (think iron handles) have higher gloss, higher gloss retention, natural UV stability and toughness, as well as adhesion.
The thing is, just try and find a phenolic varnish today. If someone finds such a varnish, then please, by all means, let us know.

With respect to hardware store 1 part urethanes; Save your money.

Dick

[John Danicic]

Varnish, the joy of my life. The bane of my existence.

I used to love to varnish my old Typhoon.

It was a December ritual. Move her into the garage. Turn up the heat. Break out the badger brush and crank up the tunes. Ten coats went on her at all hours of the day when the previous coat was dry. She was a sight to behold in the end.

Now with a bigger boat and no indoor heat or storage the joy was dashed by the grime reality that there will never be ten days in any one Spring month that have the proper conditions. Ten good days that I could be at the boat with no rain or snow or cold. Not gonna happen.

It was Cetol for a the first five years and now it's Honey Teak. Honey Teak is a two step, catalyzed acrylic urethane enamel that has a wide range of application temperatures. Dries fast. Can be recoated immediately to build up the suggested five coats over all and it looks "decent". Hinckley owners would turn up their aristocratic noises at the finish but I don't really think that type can see varnish on other boats. Couldn't be bothered.
Honey Teak is terribly expensive and a little thick and dark looking for my tastes' but better then Cetol and best of all, it can be applied in early May while my ladder is sinking into a snow bank, it supposed to rain in three hours and the outdoor temperature will keep your beer nicely chilled.

Ah, to live in a climate where I could varnish!

Sail on

John Danicic
CD36 - Mariah - #124
Lake Superior - The Apostle Islands
CDSOA # 655

[Tom Javor]

The best results I had with varnish on the teak on my Herreshoff S was Coma Berenice - very exspensive but held up better than anything else.

Tried a bit of an experiment on the sliding hatch - stripped it down to bare wood and put on the requisite seven coats of CB and then did nothig to it for three seasons.

At the end of the 3rd season the finish was just begining to fail on the corners where it was handled every time I opened the hatch.
Additionally the teak never sunbleached to the same extent as the rest of the boat where I continued to use Epiphanes and Captains.

At the time I used the product it was only available by mail order - I believe the formula etc has now been sold to a new manufacturer who mixes it here in the US and it is distributed via local chandleries. I don't know if it's still as good as the product I used in the past.

[SurryMark]

Phenolics (think iron handles) have higher gloss, higher gloss retention, natural UV stability and toughness, as well as adhesion.
The thing is, just try and find a phenolic varnish today. If someone finds such a varnish, then please, by all means, let us know.
Dick

Dick,

As I suppose you know, here is what Epifanes says about their gloss varnish:

"This traditional marine varnish is based on tung oil, phenolic-modified alkyd resins and maximum U.V. absorbers."

As a chemical guy you probably know what "pbenolic-modified alkyd" means.

Me, I'm just abou to make the decision to paint some nice Epifanes colors over cetol, unless somebody makes me feel too bad about doing that. Glossy finish, wipe it down and touch up now and then. Buy a few extra days for floating. That sound good?

[tartansailor]

Hi Mark,
It looks as if Epifanes is as about as good a quality that is available;
Go for it, and I sincerely hope that the results turn out great, and you are more than happy with the results.
Dick

[Troy Scott]

Dick,

Colors? Are you thinking of covering the Cetol with paint?

[tartansailor]

Hi Troy,
Oh no. We are looking for a clear phenolic varnish that
when applied leaves a clear albeit honey tone designed
for marine applications.
Dick

[Troy Scott]

Dick,

Good. I know they don't want you to put Cetol over varnish, but I just don't know about putting Epifanes varnish over Cetol. Is the Cetol relatively clear? Or is it muddy? If you can get some "tooth" for the varnish, and if the Cetol is relatively clear, it would probably stick and be visually tolerable. As you say, this is a "temporary" solution. At some point you will want to thoroughly clean and prep the teak and start over with a nice new Epifanes varnish finish. Good luck.