Bedding and Refinishing Exterior Teak

[Steve Bryant]

Hi Everyone,

I have read a bazillion posts in the archives about this subject, and even though we have older boats, the technology of maintaining them changes every day. I am presently removing, refinishing and rebedding all of the exterior teak on my CD25 and I have a few questions that I would like to throw out there.

I intend to refinish the wood with Cetol Natural Light and Cetol Marine Gloss. I am very much committed to this route, so the questions would apply to this type of finish.

Question #1. What should I use to seal the area of the teak, if anything, that is going to receive the bedding compound and be adhering to the fiberglass? I plan to use Boatlife Life-Caulk polysulphide as the bedding compound unless someone offers a better solution.

I have read to use epoxy (I am assuming unthickened epoxy brushed on to the unfinished wood where it would be in contact with the fiberglass). CPES is not compatiable with Cetol, so it is out.

Boatlife make a Life-Caulk Primer they claim makes for better adhesion, to be used with oily woods such as teak (maybe the best bet). It must be fairly new because there I can't find any reviews or comments on the web about how good it works.

Some have suggested to just use a good paint.

Some suggest to just use the Cetol w/gloss for the entire process since that is what the rest of the wood will be finished with (don't know if the Life-Caulk will adhere to the Cetol finish).

Some have suggested leaving the wood bare to promote adhesion with the sealant (seems like the least effective method in that it would allow for more moisture intrusion).

Question #2. Butyl rubber tape has been touted as a bedding sealant for deck hardware, but I haven't heard anyone talk about it in the context of bedding wood to fiberglass. Is this a viable option in lieu of the Life-Caulk? If it is, then would the Cetol w/gloss be an acceptable finish to adhere to?

Question #3. Has anyone tried the bonded fastener method (West System Epoxy) of fastening the the teak to fiberglass? Again, lots of information regarding deck hardware, but not much regarding wood trim.

I would really like for this to be a long term fix for the teak trim. I am not removing the toe rails and rub rails and have refinished them putting on three coats of the Cetol Natural Teak and two coats of the gloss and it looks great. The rest of the wood is being stripped, sanded, and ready to be refinished so I just need to get comfortable with how to properly bed it (especially the coaming boards) for a long term solution.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

[sfreihofer]

Steve;

Your questions are generic to mine. I am replacing ALL exterior teak because of severe weathering and degradation... splitting, for example.

How to bed, how to finish (or not) are all questions I am still mulling over in my mind. Here in the semi-tropical Florida sunshine, I'm thinking less is more for finish because I'm not a work-a-holic on finishes. But, bedding is a major concern because I've seen what damage seepage can do.

It appears that butyl rubber was used in the original construction of my boat to bed the rub rail and toe rail. Something else was used for bedding hardware...but I'm not sure what...maybe a polysulfide? It seems silicone was used for the portlights, but that could have been an after-fix, I'm not sure.

I can say that all of these issues are quite relevant, and I'm watching this discussion intently. These are not jobs I would want to repeat yearly.

Thanks for bringing these issues to the board. I'm taking notes...

Stan Freihofer
1981 CD 25 #794
www.ReefRoof.com
Ft. Lauderdale

[trapper]

I am having my eyebrows redone and the rails on the companionway hatch. I am wondering what the original adhesive was? Got to tell you, they were VERY difficult to remove without damage.

[Ray Garcia]

I went with liberal application of Boatlife Life-Caulk polysulphide to rebed all the exterior teak I removed. I masked off the areas to help remove the squeeze-out. Some of the teak I removed still had the original polysulfide that was used to install the wood. It came off very easily with a heat gun before it was sanded and refinished. Whatever you use do not go with any silicone based product. It will be next to impossible to remove in the future and will blemish the refinish.

I finished the coaming boards while they were off the boat. I decided not to install the original teak bungs and choose bronze screws with finishing washers to re-install. I partially over drilled the original screw holes on the front side and filled them with a teak sawdust epoxy mix. I let this harden then drilled new holes from the reverse side to match the screw holes on the boat. This will help me easily remove the coamings next time I finish them. Sanded the boards on both sides then refinished with 8 coats of varnish.

[Sea Hunt]

I have a small (in my mind I have made it big and complicated ) section of toe rail to replace and rebed. I think I recall someone on this board recommending 3M 4200 for this, which was "seconded" by several others. Not sure if this would just work for small repairs (mine will be only 16"-18") or if it would work for all exterior teak.

[Steve Bryant]

Hi Folks,

I am getting a wide range of opinions from what I would consider reliable sources on my original question.

I received the following advice from the owner of the boatyard that I use:

1. Don't seal the area of the teak that is getting bedded so the bedding material will bond to the wood.

2. Use 3M 101 to bed the teak over any other product.


I also talked with a gentleman at Jamestown Distributors that offered this advice:

1. Seal the teak completly. Bedding compounds aren't adhesives so it doesn't matter if it bonds to the wood or not.

2. Use Dolfinite or 3M's bedding compound in lieu of a polysulfide sealant. Not as messy and easier to remove in the future.


I really trust the knowledge of this board, and I would really welcome any and all opinions on this matter.

Thanks,

[Jim Buck]

Hi Steve,

I posed the question about butyl tape being used as a bedding "compound" for teak rails some time ago. The question arose from Mainesail's informative post regarding butyl for bedding hardware. I guess I would like to hear from anyone on your original question about butyl. Seems like it would be even easier and less messy than a caulk. ???

[tartansailor]

Steve,
I have refinished teak and mahogany on boats starting back in the late 50's with a 1929 26' Chris Craft.
What works for me is:
Really dry the sanded ready to finish wood. Important!
For teak, a toluene wash followed by an
acetone wash then hot air drier.
Immediately 3 thin coats of epoxy same day.
Sand or bronze wool the 3 day cured epoxy.
4 coats of final finish, either varnish or
clear 2 part clear $aliphatic$ urethane.

For bedding compound I use to use the butyl tape used to seal furnace duct plates on travel trailers, then sulphides came along,
then 3M 4200, but now I think that CRL polyurethane construction adhesive is just as good as all of the above, but it is less expensive.
Note, I have never had a bonding, or a finish failure using the above regimen, and the wood never cracked or split just as long as you do not let the sun get to the epoxy.
Dick

[Steve Bryant]

I take it that you sealed the wood completely with the epoxy and varnish prior to bedding the wood. Do you think that if I used the Cetol Natural Teak with two coats of the gloss that the wood would bed properly using a polysulphide?

The big question here for me is whether to leave the teak bare on the unseen areas or seal it prior to rebedding.

Thanks for your input. The aliphatic urethanes are an interesting product.

[Tommy Wade]

I've used Dolphinite on my CD 28 to rebed pretty much every piece of wood on the boat except for the toe rails and rub rails. It's an awesome product. Easy to work with. Cleans up with mineral spirits. Stays workable for years so it can handle expansion and contraction without cracking. Best of all it's easy to remove when the wood has to come off again. No matter how good you finish the wood it will have to come off again someday. Do the next owner a favor and use Dolphinite. I also used Cetol on my wood. Make sure the wood is completely coated with Cetol on all sides before you rebed and you won't have problems with water getting under the finish.

[Shipscarver]

I have never refinished wood trim on a boat. I am a bit confused. The PO had the wood refinished by a yard 10 years ago. They bedded the wood in 5200 according to the receipts. Then the PO just sanded and finished every few years.
Now, as I strip down to bare wood, I see that the nose end of the two strips on the sides of the cabin are coming loose up foreword. Without removing them how do I fasten them down? The idea of removing all the wood seems especially troubling if it was done with 5200.
I have read a lot on how to refinish, (and have refinished furniture)but have seen nothing on how to remove and reattach, and that worries me. What do I do to take it off and replace it correctly?

[Stan W.]

Your boatyard and Jamestown are each 1/2 right. Jamestown is right when it says seal all of the teak. Your boatyard is right when it says to use a polysulfide (it is unclear from your posts whether you realize that 3M 101 is a polysulfide just like Life- Caulk). I disagree with the advice to use Dolphinite. Yes it is less messy, but it just does not last long enough in my opinion.

[tartansailor]

I take it that you sealed the wood completely with the epoxy and varnish prior to bedding the wood. Do you think that if I used the Cetol Natural Teak with two coats of the gloss that the wood would bed properly using a polysulphide?

The big question here for me is whether to leave the teak bare on the unseen areas or seal it prior to rebedding.

Thanks for your input. The aliphatic urethanes are an interesting product.

Hi Steve,
The whole purpose of sealing the wood completely with epoxy is to prevent moisture from causing expansion and contraction, which is the major cause of finish failure. Yes coat the back and edges.

Now the function of a bedding compound is to function as a seal between the wood and it's support to prevent water from
getting between the two surfaces, so an adhesive function is redundant because the screws or through bolts are suppose to do that job and hold the wood in place.
Hope this helps.
Dick

[Ron M.]

Who was it that suggested polyurethane construction adhesive ?
It has a tenacious bond, as strong as 3m 5200. Extremely difficult to get separation once cured. I've used 4200, Boatlife,or Dolfinite for bedding.
________
MFLB

[tartansailor]

Hi Ron,
Yes you are right that PUR does stick like grim death,
and yes I tried it, but not necessarily recommend it.
It was something that I tried because I'm fundamentally
cheap.
One thing that I did notice is that it softens readily when
the attached wood (3/16" mahogany) was heated gently
with a hair drier, a bit easier than 4200 because the PUR
has a lot of filler, and 4200 does not; but heat required
never the less.
Thanks for bringing this point up.
Dick