I'm about to make an offer on a boat; any further advice?

[Aaron Headly]

I'm preparing to make an offer on an owner-listed Cape Dory. I've had a survey done (and will be adjusting the offer a little thanks to that), and I've sorted out berthing for the next year (at least). Beyond that:

I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to get a broker to handle my end of the exchange. I'm just not sure if I know where all the t's need to be crossed and the i's dotted.

Worse, the owner is two time-zones away from me and the boat.

So: would a broker be worth the trouble and/or expense?

Thanks in advance.

[bhartley]

The one sale we did through a broker was a total PITA. As a buyer, you wouldn't normally hire a broker (the seller would). Check your state's registration requirements and print necessary forms ahead of time. Check to see if you need things notarized and if a notary is available.

We sold our Typhoon to a couple in CT and we just made sure that all of the paperwork covered what the state required. It was all available online.

Our Seasprite was 11 hours away -- no broker -- no problems. If you've been talking with the seller you should have an idea by now if the guy is rational or a little nutty. I have found very few irrational owner's of boats I would want to buy...

Our 25D was bought 5 hours away in spite of the broker -- who among other things tried to cancel our accepted offer after someone came in with a better offer. I would be sure to have a contract in hand before traveling there. Our agreements have always had a complete walk-away clause where we could walk away from the deal for any reason.

I would really have to think 10 times before buying another boat from a broker.

Just my .02!

Bly

[Kevin Kaldenbach]

Ask the state where you are buying the boat and the state you plan to register the boat what their laws are regarding ownership transfers. Find out if they are title or non title states. When you talk to someone from either state write their names down and what ever they tell you. Is the boat documented? If so you still might have to jump through the hoops required by your state along with Coast Guard documentation paper work. For example in Texas where we live, documented sailboats still need to be registered with the state. For answers to documentation questions, http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcinstr.asp

Personally we would not use a broker but rather instead like to do the homework ourselves. Just keep your money in your pocket until you are satisfied that the seller has the right, and proper paperwork, to sell you the boat. As far as transporting the boat home, if you plan to have it hauled, check out uship.com. You can have transporters bid for your shipment.

[Aaron Headly]

That was quick, thanks bunches.

I found the info online, and it's not terribly intimidating. It really helped to hear from you.

The 'lubber' should be disappearing from my profile in a few days.

[Sea Hunt]

Aaron:

You do NOT need or want a broker if you are the buyer. Generally, the seller hires a broker to market/advertise his sailboat. The broker takes a commission from the seller based on the purchase price.

If you hire a broker he has no interest in getting you a lower price. He reduces his commission because you are paying him because you hired him.

Also, things kind of depend on what you are buying - a Cape Dory Daysailor for $4,000 or a Cape Dory 36 for $120,000. If you are buying an expensive Cape Dory, you may want to consider hiring an attorney who is certified or very familiar with boat purchases, etc. They are generally listed as "maritime attorneys" in the phone book.

In my experience the most important thing is a quality marine surveyor paid for by you who has your interest at stake, not the seller. If the boat you are looking at has a diesel, you should get a separate check out from a qualified marine diesel mechanic.

You said you had a survey but if I am reading your email correctly, you have not made an offer yet. Normally, in my experience, you first make an offer which, if accepted by the seller, is conditioned upon the results of a marine survey (and diesel engine survey ), the results to be to the sole satisfaction of the buyer. The advantage is that if the surveyor finds things wrong or in need of repair, the price can, and should, be negotiated down from the previously agreed price. I apologize in advance to board members in the process of selling or trading up their CDs, but that is really how it should work - kind of similar to buying a house and getting a home inspection. By getting a survey first, you have reduced your ability to haggle the price down.

As you have found, there are several websites that have PDF formatted purchase/sale agreements. From what I recall, they are all generally pretty fair and not slanted toward the seller or buyer, except for the survey results, etc., which are properly weighted in favor of the prospective buyer. The seller knows or should know what the "issues" are with his sailboat. The buyer has no way of knowing during a brief inspection, etc.

I would also make a sea trial a condition of the purchase. You really want to go out on the water, raise the sails and see how she performs and, more importantly, if you are comfortable with her size, configuration, sail area, etc. Again, it depends on whether you are looking at a Cape Dory Daysailor or a Cape Dory 36 or something in between.

The members of this board suffered a lot during my long and tortured search for a Cape Dory. Most of the above suggestions are collated from many of their suggestions, etc. for which I remain forever in their debt.

By the way, what Cape Dory are you looking at It better not be a CD 25D I think I am going to start looking at those to get more overnight space.

[Aaron Headly]

-thanks, seahunt.
I'll be contacting you tomorrow to address your concerns (I'm typing this on my cell).

In the meantime: please don't worry. I'm aware of the strangeness of my situation.

[winthrop fisher]

this happen to me years ago,

first, when i got the boat from galveston texas and i was living in clear lake texas at the time....

i had the boat for many years before moving to kansas city...

when i went to register the boat here in kansas city i found the first owner did not register the boat in texas at all.....

(that was the proplem)

and in kansas city they said i could not put it on the water at all until i had clear papers on the boat....

after two years of slow mail from florida back and forth,

i got the papers and had to repay it back on paper only,
to show thats it is mine on paper...

so my advise too you would ask the seller to go to the bank and do the paper work and exchanges the money at the same time...

the bank will make sure ever thing gos right on both sides....

after buying over 26 boats over the years i would all was ask for the bank for help...

the bank will make sure ever thing go's right on both sides at very little cost....

unlike a broker....

winthrop