Heat gun to remove Cetol

[Russell]

Mark, you will find every possible opinion on wood finishing from CD owners, dont expect a common thought at all. Personally I am of the mind that real varnish is the only aestheticly acceptable finish for my boat, but there are plenty here who prefer less maintence and more time sailing and thus opt for cetol or similar finishes. Personally I would rather let the teak go grey then put that stuff on! Its all personal preference, and from the sounds of it, you belong to the real varnish camp. I mean, your in maine right? Keep up varnish with the short sailing season and mild UV from the sun, should be reletively easy, cetol really wont be a huge advantage in the long run really in your climate.

[John Danicic]

Ah! after my own heart you are Mark.

The market out there knows our pain, that is why there are soooooo many choices to finish our teak with. They also know that we have many needs and each need has many sub-needs.
1. the look
2. ease of application
3. longevity
4. ease of repair
5. cost

Any one of us would put that list in a different order.

I have problems with Cetol's "look". It first looked like an orange wash. The later versions look better but still with more orange pigment then I like. It has a dull flat look that says, "utility, no nonsense, don't look too close". The best thing about Cetol is its ease of application. It has a greater range of temperature and conditions to apply it which to me, is important in our fickle Lake Superior weather conditions. I have discovered that it doesn't last very long but it is cheep.

I do like the wet, glossy look of a good varnish job. If you could maintain it to look that way so much the better. There is a perfectly varnished CD 25 in our Marina. He keeps it in a heated building all winter and can afford to lavish down time from sailing by varnishing her. It has a color and depth that makes you think of a 500 year old conference table in the English Admiralty. I am jealous of his arrangement but realistic of my chances to achieve it and still use the short season allotted for sailing. So it goes to the compromise of this Honey Teak stuff I mentioned above. More suspended pigment then I like but a good gloss, warm deep color. It can be applied in colder weather and it seems to last a long time up here. Way too expensive but if you are not always reapplying it.......

As for Russell's like of seeing teak turn grey, I like that look as well but not when it is wet and turns black and mold starts to grow and then you scrub it and it gets wet and........

Compromises and unlike the freewheeling prop issue, no one is wrong because everyone is right.

As the one's who put the stuff on, we are pretty close to our work. We know every drip and scratch of 36 odd feet of teak, handrails and coning boards. We take pride in the results but we know to much. Visitors remark as we are bend to our tasks, "looking good there captain", but we know better of all the compromises that we went through to achieve the look we got. The money we spent, the time going over every inch of every side of every piece of teak on board and doing it multiple times a season over multiple seasons till there comes the alleged happy day when we sell the boat. Then what?

Sorry I went on so long here. The fires is nice and the winter deep. I wish I could head out tomorrow with brush in hand and go over every inch of my teak, multiple times but that day is 4 more months away at best.



Here is a shot of the scraped toe rail ready to be cleaned, sanded and finished. I did the bowsprit in Honey Teak this past summer. I can't wait.

Sail on

John Danicic
CD 36 -Mariah - #124
Lake Superior

[Russell]

John, that photo made me wince! Not because of anything to do with your boat at all, but that specific spot is the one that has me cursing the people who built these boats each year when I do my brightwork. It is impossible to scrape, sand, mask or varnish inside that little nook between the bowsprit and the block of teak that the chock sits on. Those odd spots around the toe rail in various areas end up taking up half my time and still never come out as well as I want.

Reguardiing grey teak though, a big difference is you are in fresh water. Unfinished teak does horrible in fresh water. The key to keeping grey teak looking nice is frequent salt water washdowns, once a week or so.

Nothing beats that mile deep and wet look of varnish. But I would never claim mine looks like that. Yet in this part of the world I get huge compliments all the time on how great she looks, but its all reletive, down here most boats (except for the professionally kept rich peoples boats) are grey or cetol (more likely grey). So anyone with varnish looks good, from 30' away my brightwork looks amazing compared to most boats in a given anchorage (and I do struggle for that) but up close you quickly see it is a cruisers varnish job full of flaws and needed repairs even after 3 months of an entire refinish.

[Sea Hunt]

I have followed up on why the "Milwaukee" heat gun Model No. 750 that I bought the other day does not say "Milwaukee" on the unit as do all other Milwaukee Electric products. The answer is surprising. It is NOT mfg. by Milwaukee Electric.

I called Milwaukee Electric this morning. I told them I bought this particular heat gun in part because of the reputation of Milwaukee Electric. They know about this but seem unconcerned about whatever the legal term is - patent or copyright infringement.

The Milwaukee heat gun Model No. 750 is actually mfg. by Wagner Spray Tech Corp. which I think is the co. that makes electric spray paint systems. I tried to call them this morning but they are not open yet.

Anyway, a word of caution. The Milwaukee heat gun Model No. 750 is not made by Milwaukee Electric despite the box labeling that says it is a Milwaukee product.

I have not yet used this heat gun and am not sure if I am going to return it to Home Depot or keep it.

[SurryMark]

Thanks for the photo, John, and the report on your harbor, Russell (you're in Florida?) Does anyone have any photos of painted trim, or has anyone ever run across it on a CD? And does Cetol simply have to be sanded and gone over again - until it becomes opaque, or structurally thick? And what about running a gloss varnish over Cetol to add some shine?

[Russell]

Thanks for the photo, John, and the report on your harbor, Russell (you're in Florida?)

I am in the Caribbean, currently St Lucia. Even worse UV then florida! the sun eats varnish like candy here, to keep a perfect finish a couple maintence coats every 3 months is essential. I do a cruisers finish with 6 month coats.

[Will Angus]

With a lot of wood surface I use a stripper. Around hardware, angles, and small surfaces a heat gun works well. As mentioned, a good scraper is critical. I use both of these:

[img]http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/Prod ... 12.jpg[img]

[img]http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/Prod ... 51.jpg[img]
________
TRIUMPH SPEED FOUR

[John Danicic]

Sea Hunt.

This is the heat gun I use. It was made by Milwaukee and has a similar price. Very nice and solid. I recommend.

http://www.7corners.com/catalog/index.p ... cfed8b3b5d

Russell:

I hear you. That spot is the hardest one on the boat. The flat tip of my pocket knife is the only thing that gets in there. Also did you notice that the two sides do not match up. One side is tighter then the other. It upsets my sense of balance. I have also noticed that below, the portlights on one side of the cabin are about an inch higher then the other side. May be these imbalances contributes to the portside lean.

It sounds like you are a varnishing guy. Which brand do you use? And what kind of brush?

As for grey teak. I didn't know that. Advantage goes to sea water from fresh. Really, one of the only ones that I have heard of when it comes to boat work/maintenance. Sea breezes are good for the sinuses and I would love to feel a great, long ocean swell under Mariah's hull someday.

Good luck on your travels north.

Sail on

John Danicic
CD 36 -Mariah- #124
Lake Superior

[SurryMark]

"Russell:
I hear you. That spot is the hardest one on the boat. The flat tip of my pocket knife is the only thing that gets in there. Also did you notice that the two sides do not match up. One side is tighter then the other. It upsets my sense of balance. I have also noticed that below, the portlights on one side of the cabin are about an inch higher then the other side. May be these imbalances contributes to the portside lean. "

And then there's filling that corner with some artistic piece of teak, enough to make an accessible bit of wood to scrape. Or maybe put a piece of black formica on the resulting end grain and call it a shadow.
The portside lean is from too much reading material in the head.

[Russell]

Russell:

I hear you. That spot is the hardest one on the boat. The flat tip of my pocket knife is the only thing that gets in there. Also did you notice that the two sides do not match up. One side is tighter then the other. It upsets my sense of balance. I have also noticed that below, the portlights on one side of the cabin are about an inch higher then the other side. May be these imbalances contributes to the portside lean.

Yeah the sides dont match up on mine either. The portlights are even on my boat though, THAT would really drive me mad.

It sounds like you are a varnishing guy. Which brand do you use? And what kind of brush?

I use epiphanes gloss, I have tried various brands and like this best. I have used a lot of brushes too, tried throw away foam, higher end synthetic bristle and various brands of badger hair. Badger brushes are my favorite and among the collection I have the best by far are a brand called Europa that I found in a BVI chandlery, twice as good as any other badger brush I have used. Not sure how easy they are to find or popular, I just stumled upon them. I hate Redtree badger brushes, which are common and easy to find, poor hand feel, lots of hairs fall out and ferrels(I think thats the right word?) that rust.

In addition, this year I stopped using traditional thinner with my varnish, I found an epiphanes product called Easy Flow which is oil based rather then mineral spirits or whatever, this stuff is absolutely wonderful, great flow characteristics and even claims to improve adhesion (not sure I beleive the adhesion bit, but flow is certainly better!).

[John Danicic]

Russell:

It looks like the Europa brushes are available at West Marine.

http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/10336-eur ... orona.html

Good brushes provide joy to routine work like varnishing. Thanks for the tip.

I admire your ability and doggedness at varnishing on the water. I find that my boat moves too much for me to keep a steady hand or a straight line preferring to work on brush projects on the hard. I am sure Lady Pauline represents Cape Dorys in its deservedly best light among other Caribbean sailing vessels.

After reading my post, my first mate (and only mate I might add), just told me that she never noticed that the our ports were not balanced. I only noticed it when I re-did the gaskets on the portlights and made a debris collection table that fit in the drip slot a strip of teak trim that runs under the ports. On one side it went in fine and the other side it needed to be slid in from either side. The ports are lower by about 3/4 of an inch and now that I know that, it does bug me. Unfortunately, now it will bug her as well. We do have to remember that these boats were mostly built one at a time so there are variations. Somebody must of gone on vacation after finishing the port side and his or her substitute did the starboard. Nothing I can do about it now but sail her hard. I do think the bowsprit imbalance is the oddest. How could the foreman not see that?

But now that I think of it, the Navahos always put an obvious mistake into their beautifully balanced rug designs just to show that they were not perfect, only god was. I would like to think that is the case here. Ponder that while you are varnishing.


Sail on.

John Danicic
CD 36 -Mariah- #124
Lake Superior

[Sea Hunt]

I decided to keep the heat gun. I called Wagner Spray Paint co. that is the mfg. of this particular heat gun. The guy on the phone was helpful and very candid in explaining the heat gun, etc., although he did say he was unaware that Milwaukee Electric Tools made heat guns, but. . . . .

Anyway, spent the day working on removing the Cetol from the toe and rub rails. Only the port side got done. It was hot - 80 degrees, hot sun, no clouds. Not pleasant The heat gun works OK and seems to help a little with removing the Cetol, although I had expectations it would be like removing old paint (something I am familiar with ). It is not like removing old paint

The combination of the heat gun, scraper and then 80 grit sandpaper was my schedule. Once all is done, I will go up to 120 and higher to get a nice finish.

I will now share with you an experience I have never witnessed before in 40 years of being on and around the water (mostly on commercial boats but on the water nevertheless).

I motored S/V Tadpole back to her mooring this afternoon after spending the day at the dock. I was sitting in the cockpit tidying things up when I noticed a 20'-22' motor boat (gun metal gray and Marine green) with a very pointy and upwardly curved bow motoring through the middle of the mooring field at a good clip. It had a 60 hp O/B on the stern. I did not observe any other markings, reg numbers, etc. I do not think there were any but I could be wrong. I had never seen this boat before. The boat and the guy steering the outboard looked like they was heading straight for me - "T bone". I hollered out to the guy that he was heading straight for me. He continued on his course and only at the last minute did he make an effort to turn to port. His hull scraped up against my hull. He just kept motoring away. I was stunned. I hollered out at the guy "hey, you hit my boat". His response is what stunned me as much as being hit by his boat. He said in a loud and clear voice "I AM NOT GOING TO APOLOGIZE". While taking that statement in, I observed he was heading directly into another moored sailboat just two moorings from me. I hollered out again at him that he was now going to hit this other sailboat. He looked at me and just barely kept from hitting this other sailboat. I did not see them touch, luckily for this other sailboat. This guy then just continued to motor off thru the mooring field. I am not sure if he was drunk, on drugs, or what.

I do know this. He is one very lucky guy. If I had my Sig with me I would very probably have cranked off 1-2 .40 cal rounds into his O/B motor - a skill I learned many years ago in another life. I know this may sound crazy to the kind and gentle folks on this board, but it is how I felt. I quickly called the sailing club launch but by the time they got there, the guy was long gone. I have no idea whether he lives in the area or is from a liveaboard or what. I doubt a liveaboard because his motorboat was 20'-22' with a large O/B.

If the guy had said "hey, I'm sorry, my fault" it would have been end of discussion. The scrap this time is minor. Everyone, Lord knows me at the top of list , can make a mistake. It was his response and attitude that has made me angry enough to share this with the board.

I am at the sailing club and sitting on the mooring a lot. A little recon/S&D with a kayak seems to be a proportionate response.

[sharkbait]

It wouldn't be the first time an outboard got ventilated with lead.

During my LEO days I had to follow-up on a complaint from a fisherman. He said that he was out in the river and some darn bass boat went flying by about 50-60 MPH. He said he really didn't complain the first time but the same boat went by two more times without slowing down. He told me that the fourth time the boat came by he put two rounds from his .357 in that big black Mercury. The last he saw of the bass boat it was headed up river using the trolling motor.

I took his name and address and told him not to worry unless the owner of the bass boat really raised a stink; never heard another word about the incident.

[Russell]

What is LEO? I am imaging a kind of police or DNR type agency, but I do not know.

[Oswego John]

We call a leo a law enforcement org. Maybe there's another acronym for it.

O J