This past august I purchased a 74 typhoon, I launched it, had a blast sailing it, and now she's in the yard for a NE winter.
The project list includes fixing a few soft spots on the deck. Since I need to remove all the hardware, I'd like to permantly remove some of the old original sail plan hardware. However, I wonder if I'm hurting the value by doing this?
For instance, there's a pair of traveler car tracks on the cabin top. The adjustable cars both have frozen wing nut stoppers. Since a PO (previous owner) upgraded to a roller furling system, should I just permanently removed?
Next, there's a similar traveler car track mounted atop the teak toe rail just forward of the cockpit winches. I found these practically useless. The location is so far aft, the genoa cannot be sheeted in tight to the rail, which created a problem in light air as the genoa just could get the correct air foil shape. Consequently, I went to West Marine, picked up a pair of simple cleats, a roller, and a spring to keep the roller upright, and mounted one on each side just inside the toe rail a foot or two forward of the permanently mounted car track. Voilà , more speed, and the elimination of the need for another track.
Boy, those original jibs must have been small, sheeted through the cabin top. These boats seem like they could handle a lot more canvass then they rec'd with original equipment.
Typhoon original sail plan & rigging
Moderator: bobdugan
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Dick Villamil
- Posts: 456
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 16:42
- Location: CD Typhoon, Victoria, Essex Jct. VT
Typhoon genny trim
I have been putting off while contemplating adding another genoe track for the same reason you were. What did you do to add the cleat? What is a "roller"? Do you have any photos? I sailed my Ty with the original jib and tracks on top of the cabin top - she sails pretty nicely with this configuration - even in light air. When I put the Genny on I immediately sw that the tracks needed to move about a foot forward - am still hesitant but probably should do it .
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Sea Hunt
- Posts: 1310
- Joined: Jan 29th, '06, 23:14
- Location: Former caretaker of 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender (Hull #1400) "S/V Tadpole"
Vcoast:
I am a rookie Ty Weekender owner and a true tadpole sailor. I did spend a lot of time looking for a Cape Dory and inspected many (as this board can sadly attest to
). And, I MAY be thinking about beginning a new search for a Cape Dory 25D. May King Neptune have mercy on me (and especially this board 
)
That said, I would caution against removing original equipment, especially sail tracks. You have a roller furler now and, thus do not need the tracks on the cabin top. However, a future owner may decide he/she does not want a roller furler and will, if the tracks are removed by you, not have that sail flexibility. I know that when I was looking at Cape Dory sailboats, one of the strong criteria for me was to determine to what degree the CD was in original condition-no significant modifications, etc. I am a big believer in Carl Alberg and his naval engineering skills.
By way of example, I recently looked at a Cape Dory 27 that was in very good condition. The prior owner (not the current seller) had made several changes to this CD 27 including cutting off the port side of the bow chock so that he could install a bow roller, etc. While it looked OK, it did NOT look original and was a factor in my decision to move on to look at other CDs.
As for the Genoa tracks on the toe rails, assuming they are where mine are, they are well positioned for a 130-140 Genoa, at least for me. I run the sheets outside of all shrouds, through a block on the track and then back to the winch and cleat. It works very well -again, at least for me. They may not work that well with a roller furler. I do not know.
A few weeks ago I enjoyed a sail with a very, very experienced sailor (about 45 years on sailboats all over the world). She loves Typhoon Weekenders and thought this rigging configuration for the Genoa was excellent although she did periodically move the blocks forward or aft a few inches at a time depending upon our point of sail and wind conditions. I do this when I "race" Harbor 20s (if you can call what I do "racing") but tend to just sail relaxed on S/V Tadpole.
In sum, I would respectfully counsel against permanently removing hardware (sail tracks, etc.) from your Typhoon Weekender. These are true classic sailboats. It would be like removing the hood mustang from a red 1964 Mustang convertible with black interior and "4 on the floor". Blasphemy I say. 
P.S. I, too, am curious as to what you are referring to as a "roller" that you installed on the deck inside the toe rails.
I am a rookie Ty Weekender owner and a true tadpole sailor. I did spend a lot of time looking for a Cape Dory and inspected many (as this board can sadly attest to
). And, I MAY be thinking about beginning a new search for a Cape Dory 25D. May King Neptune have mercy on me (and especially this board )That said, I would caution against removing original equipment, especially sail tracks. You have a roller furler now and, thus do not need the tracks on the cabin top. However, a future owner may decide he/she does not want a roller furler and will, if the tracks are removed by you, not have that sail flexibility. I know that when I was looking at Cape Dory sailboats, one of the strong criteria for me was to determine to what degree the CD was in original condition-no significant modifications, etc. I am a big believer in Carl Alberg and his naval engineering skills.
By way of example, I recently looked at a Cape Dory 27 that was in very good condition. The prior owner (not the current seller) had made several changes to this CD 27 including cutting off the port side of the bow chock so that he could install a bow roller, etc. While it looked OK, it did NOT look original and was a factor in my decision to move on to look at other CDs.
As for the Genoa tracks on the toe rails, assuming they are where mine are, they are well positioned for a 130-140 Genoa, at least for me. I run the sheets outside of all shrouds, through a block on the track and then back to the winch and cleat. It works very well -again, at least for me. They may not work that well with a roller furler. I do not know.
A few weeks ago I enjoyed a sail with a very, very experienced sailor (about 45 years on sailboats all over the world). She loves Typhoon Weekenders and thought this rigging configuration for the Genoa was excellent although she did periodically move the blocks forward or aft a few inches at a time depending upon our point of sail and wind conditions. I do this when I "race" Harbor 20s (if you can call what I do "racing") but tend to just sail relaxed on S/V Tadpole.
In sum, I would respectfully counsel against permanently removing hardware (sail tracks, etc.) from your Typhoon Weekender. These are true classic sailboats. It would be like removing the hood mustang from a red 1964 Mustang convertible with black interior and "4 on the floor". Blasphemy I say.
P.S. I, too, am curious as to what you are referring to as a "roller" that you installed on the deck inside the toe rails.
Fair winds,
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Robert
Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
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Markst95
- Posts: 628
- Joined: Aug 5th, '08, 10:04
- Location: 1972 Typhoon Weekender "SWIFT" Hull #289 Narragansett Bay, RI
Hi Vcoast, I also bought a typhoon last August, a 72. Unfortunately mine wasn't in sailable shape. I've spent the fall re coring most of the front deck and parts of the cabintop. Hopefully I will be ready for launch this spring. I plan on using the original setup for a year, then I'll decide if upgrades are needed. I don't think upgrades that help how a boat handles will necessarily take away from the value of the boat, I wouldn't shy away from a ty that had, say a mainsheet traveler or camcleats. Just make sure and keep all the old parts in case you want to go back. I hope your soft spots on deck aren't as big as mine were.
Reply to Dick Villamil & Markst95
Hi Dick: My e-mail address is vcoast@gmail.com. Write me, and I'll send you pictures of what I installed. We're talking about $20 in hardware, and a big difference in sail performance. Plus, where you fasten to the deck, no coring, solid glass. Not that there's a ton of force on the deck mounting hardware, so a couple of quarter size washers did the trick as backing plates. So easy, a Caveman could do it.
Hello Mark: Now, for a project that presents a challenge to most cavemen, including this one. I'd love to see any pictures, and would be happy for any advice about your recoring project. I've done fiberglass work in the past, but in areas where the finished product was not going to be very visible. I replaced half the deck on my Boston Whaler 1970's vintage. A real workhorse of a boat, no frills, and I used it only for Mooring work, so most of the time the deck was covered with rusty chain and mud. God I love that boat. The fix was a real hoot. First, I cut out the old deck, and with that piece out came a big ole piece of nasty dirty original yellowed foam core. I tossed that. Went to Home depot, bought a few cans of spray foam insulation, the same stuff they sell for house projects. I sprayed it into the cavity, then worked it around with a putty knife before it had a chance to rise like bread dough. When dried, I shaped it back with a grinder, down to the original hull shape, which only took minutes. Then I glassed it. For filler on the irregularities in the glass, I used tile grout. I had a bag of tile grout in the garage on the shelf, and I happened to be reading the ingredients while enjoying a budweiser admiring my work up to that point. Tile grout is mostly Silica, the same stuff found in most West Systems fillers. What the heck, I mixed it with the next batch of resin. Eight years later, still solid as a rock.
Hello Mark: Now, for a project that presents a challenge to most cavemen, including this one. I'd love to see any pictures, and would be happy for any advice about your recoring project. I've done fiberglass work in the past, but in areas where the finished product was not going to be very visible. I replaced half the deck on my Boston Whaler 1970's vintage. A real workhorse of a boat, no frills, and I used it only for Mooring work, so most of the time the deck was covered with rusty chain and mud. God I love that boat. The fix was a real hoot. First, I cut out the old deck, and with that piece out came a big ole piece of nasty dirty original yellowed foam core. I tossed that. Went to Home depot, bought a few cans of spray foam insulation, the same stuff they sell for house projects. I sprayed it into the cavity, then worked it around with a putty knife before it had a chance to rise like bread dough. When dried, I shaped it back with a grinder, down to the original hull shape, which only took minutes. Then I glassed it. For filler on the irregularities in the glass, I used tile grout. I had a bag of tile grout in the garage on the shelf, and I happened to be reading the ingredients while enjoying a budweiser admiring my work up to that point. Tile grout is mostly Silica, the same stuff found in most West Systems fillers. What the heck, I mixed it with the next batch of resin. Eight years later, still solid as a rock.
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Steve Laume
- Posts: 4127
- Joined: Feb 13th, '05, 20:40
- Location: Raven1984 Cape Dory 30C Hull #309Noank, CT
- Contact:
So your tellin us you know how to set up the running rigging better than Carl Alberg!? Weather the genoa is hanked on or roller furling shouldn't make any difference in where the sheets are turned. I always cringe when I hear someone making major changes to one of our classic boats. How long will you own it and what would the next owner think of you modifications? Fred with Fenix always comes to mind. When he was working on his boat I had this reoccurring thought that he was going to ruin a perfectly good boat. That fact that he is sailing it around the world gives him justification to do anything he pleases to Fenix. In general I would say you would seriously harm your resale value if you took off the genoa tracks. You might even find that you needed them after all. Adding longer ones would have been my preference. What makes them so objectionable any way? Since you asked, I say save the tracks, Steve.
Reply to Steve Laume, Sea Hunt, Dick Villamil
Steve: Whoa, flaps down bro before you blow an artery.
Seahunt: Got your e-mail, and will forward a couple of pics. You asked if the deck is solid glass from the rail to the cabin. No, just the leading edge where it fastens to the hull. If you locate and fasten the padeye close to the toe-rail, to mount the block (roller), you'll be in solid glass. (Markst95 can probably tell you better how the whole deck is laid out, as he sent pics, and he's well into his project.)
Dick Villamil: Sorry for my use of the term roller in my earlier post. Holdover from long ago, the summer I was trying to teach my wife to sail. I should have said block. I'm surprised I recall what anything is after that long summer. The track and block were already mounted on my boat, towards the stern of the cockpit, atop the toe-rail. I would have simply moved it forward, but it has about 8 screws, and is fastened directly through the wood toe-rail, and probably into the deck/hull joint as well. It wasn't something I wanted to fool around with at the end of the summer, and I knew this winter I would most likely be removing it anyways as part of the deck repair. It was just easier to fasten a single block on each side further forward, right about where the cabin companionway lines-up, to see how it worked. I knew from pulling in the foot of the sail by hand, in light air, it immediately improved the performance. The existing track and block set-up is so short anyways, it doesn't make much sense on this boat. The six settings make little to no difference in sail performance. If it where longer, and already installed, I would keep it. I don't think I'll spend silly boat bucks on a boat this size to make that happen. When I put it all back together, I may replace the track with a single block. I'll have one forward for light air, and one aft for everything else.
I'm no sail expert. I just dealt with the situation through simple observation. Everyone's Genny is probably shaped and sized differently. This location worked for mine. With the location of the existing track further aft, the Genny short of flattened out when sheeted in for light air, and thus lost it's shape. In heavier air, with the sheet relaxed a bit, the sail shape was fine. By locating a block further forward, I could get the foot of the sail closer to the deck, and with the clew further forward, it allowed the Genny to bag out a bit into that nice air-foil shape. Hence, better performance. With the block aft, trying to sheet in for better performance in light air had the opposite effect. It pulled the Genny taught through the center of the sail, and the sail lost it's shape. Hope this makes sense.
Seahunt: Got your e-mail, and will forward a couple of pics. You asked if the deck is solid glass from the rail to the cabin. No, just the leading edge where it fastens to the hull. If you locate and fasten the padeye close to the toe-rail, to mount the block (roller), you'll be in solid glass. (Markst95 can probably tell you better how the whole deck is laid out, as he sent pics, and he's well into his project.)
Dick Villamil: Sorry for my use of the term roller in my earlier post. Holdover from long ago, the summer I was trying to teach my wife to sail. I should have said block. I'm surprised I recall what anything is after that long summer. The track and block were already mounted on my boat, towards the stern of the cockpit, atop the toe-rail. I would have simply moved it forward, but it has about 8 screws, and is fastened directly through the wood toe-rail, and probably into the deck/hull joint as well. It wasn't something I wanted to fool around with at the end of the summer, and I knew this winter I would most likely be removing it anyways as part of the deck repair. It was just easier to fasten a single block on each side further forward, right about where the cabin companionway lines-up, to see how it worked. I knew from pulling in the foot of the sail by hand, in light air, it immediately improved the performance. The existing track and block set-up is so short anyways, it doesn't make much sense on this boat. The six settings make little to no difference in sail performance. If it where longer, and already installed, I would keep it. I don't think I'll spend silly boat bucks on a boat this size to make that happen. When I put it all back together, I may replace the track with a single block. I'll have one forward for light air, and one aft for everything else.
I'm no sail expert. I just dealt with the situation through simple observation. Everyone's Genny is probably shaped and sized differently. This location worked for mine. With the location of the existing track further aft, the Genny short of flattened out when sheeted in for light air, and thus lost it's shape. In heavier air, with the sheet relaxed a bit, the sail shape was fine. By locating a block further forward, I could get the foot of the sail closer to the deck, and with the clew further forward, it allowed the Genny to bag out a bit into that nice air-foil shape. Hence, better performance. With the block aft, trying to sheet in for better performance in light air had the opposite effect. It pulled the Genny taught through the center of the sail, and the sail lost it's shape. Hope this makes sense.
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novotny
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Apr 2nd, '05, 07:01
- Location: 1977 Typhoon #1453 and 1966 Pearson Electra #330 "Imagination" in Buffalo, NY
[quote="Sea Hunt"]Vcoast:
I am a rookie Ty Weekender owner and a true tadpole sailor. I did spend a lot of time looking for a Cape Dory and inspected many (as this board can sadly attest to ). And, I MAY be thinking about beginning a new search for a Cape Dory 25D. May King Neptune have mercy on me (and especially this board )
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.................................................
I am a rookie Ty Weekender owner and a true tadpole sailor. I did spend a lot of time looking for a Cape Dory and inspected many (as this board can sadly attest to
). And, I MAY be thinking about beginning a new search for a Cape Dory 25D. May King Neptune have mercy on me (and especially this board )NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.................................................
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Serge Zimberoff
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Oct 27th, '05, 14:08
- Location: Typhoon #1700 (1980)
"Cloning Around"
Lake Sonoma, CA
Sea Hunt' summary on the mark...
VCoast...
I think our 'tadpole' took time to put it into words that look to me like a pretty good summary of the Ty's rigging points.
a. You might want to go out in a blow and need the jib blocks on the cabin top for a jib rather than that high triangle left when the genoa isn't let out all the way, and
b. Taking a fixed turning point ahead of the genoa track seems like it would put a lot more friction between the shrouds and the sail, and
c. It seems to me that the shape of the genoa could get pretty weird if you can't adjust the block when running off the wind because the angle down could be too steep with the block that far forward.
Just my 2¢ of course,
Serge
I think our 'tadpole' took time to put it into words that look to me like a pretty good summary of the Ty's rigging points.
a. You might want to go out in a blow and need the jib blocks on the cabin top for a jib rather than that high triangle left when the genoa isn't let out all the way, and
b. Taking a fixed turning point ahead of the genoa track seems like it would put a lot more friction between the shrouds and the sail, and
c. It seems to me that the shape of the genoa could get pretty weird if you can't adjust the block when running off the wind because the angle down could be too steep with the block that far forward.
Just my 2¢ of course,
Serge
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Steve Laume
- Posts: 4127
- Joined: Feb 13th, '05, 20:40
- Location: Raven1984 Cape Dory 30C Hull #309Noank, CT
- Contact:
Serge
Good Point-But....
With the Roller-Furling system, I won't be changing sails or hanking on any jibs.
Also, the Genny runs outside the shrouds. Even with the location aft for the existing genoa track, the genny has to run outside the shrouds, as the deck plate for the shrouds is located inside the toe-rail. I'd like to know if anyone is running their sail inside the shrouds?
Running down wind is not a problem, as I still have the track further aft, and can relocate the sheets.
I think the fix here is to have a really long track, curved around the toe-rail, then you could locate the block anywhere. I doubt one exists, just easier to relocate the sheets as needed between the two points.
Thanks for the contribution.
With the Roller-Furling system, I won't be changing sails or hanking on any jibs.
Also, the Genny runs outside the shrouds. Even with the location aft for the existing genoa track, the genny has to run outside the shrouds, as the deck plate for the shrouds is located inside the toe-rail. I'd like to know if anyone is running their sail inside the shrouds?
Running down wind is not a problem, as I still have the track further aft, and can relocate the sheets.
I think the fix here is to have a really long track, curved around the toe-rail, then you could locate the block anywhere. I doubt one exists, just easier to relocate the sheets as needed between the two points.
Thanks for the contribution.
Steve Laume:
No Sweat, Viva La Passion! By the way, I take a size 28' in Sailboat length if you're looking for any make-up Christmas Gift ideas
Another 2 cents on TY modifications:
The sail tracks on the cabin top are for a working jib. When the wind pipes up you NEED a working jib. It's 1/3 the size of your genoa and balances perfectly with a single reefed main in 30 kts of wind. I'm sure of this. I've done it, had the bay all to myself, and the TY handles it effortlessly... well, the rail does get wet!
In 10 kts the working jib keeps the boat on her feet and pointing higher.
Your problem is to find a way to set the working jib with a genoa on a furler. There must be a way, since the original TY as designed by Alberg and illustrated in the brochure, had roller furling! Quite the revolutionary back in the day, eh?
As for partial furling as a method of reducing sail, it's well known that after about 15% reduction, the loss of sail shape makes a furling genoa next to useless going to windward.
Enjoy the TY anyway you want.. It will still be the best little sailboat on the bay.
Fair winds,
Dane
The sail tracks on the cabin top are for a working jib. When the wind pipes up you NEED a working jib. It's 1/3 the size of your genoa and balances perfectly with a single reefed main in 30 kts of wind. I'm sure of this. I've done it, had the bay all to myself, and the TY handles it effortlessly... well, the rail does get wet!
In 10 kts the working jib keeps the boat on her feet and pointing higher.
Your problem is to find a way to set the working jib with a genoa on a furler. There must be a way, since the original TY as designed by Alberg and illustrated in the brochure, had roller furling! Quite the revolutionary back in the day, eh?
As for partial furling as a method of reducing sail, it's well known that after about 15% reduction, the loss of sail shape makes a furling genoa next to useless going to windward.
Enjoy the TY anyway you want.. It will still be the best little sailboat on the bay.
Fair winds,
Dane
track extensions
I still have hank on's - working jib and 140 gennie -- and use the cabin top rigging regularly when I go out w/ working jib in a blow (which is about a third of the time on Casco Bay). Would definitely keep unless you have rot.
But when I use the gennie I have noticed the same problem in obtaining the right sail shape due to location of traveler. The most elegant solution I have seen on this board was simple 1'-2' track extensions (identical to the originals) added forward of the existing track. I recall someone posted pictures of their modifications (it was a Cheasapeake boat I think).
Steve
________
Ford gt90 specifications
But when I use the gennie I have noticed the same problem in obtaining the right sail shape due to location of traveler. The most elegant solution I have seen on this board was simple 1'-2' track extensions (identical to the originals) added forward of the existing track. I recall someone posted pictures of their modifications (it was a Cheasapeake boat I think).
Steve
________
Ford gt90 specifications
Last edited by shinchman on Feb 11th, '11, 07:43, edited 1 time in total.