Electronics for a CD27

[Shipscarver]

I'm in a quandry. What do I need to buy and where should I locate it ? My new to me CD27, with tiller, old compuss and depth, mounted on either side of the companionway needs help. That's it. No GPS, no chartplotter, zero, zip, nada.
What do I need (limited budget so I am not considering radar) for coastal cruising, besides GPS, and where do I put it?

[trapper]

Hi Shipcarver,
I have a pretty new to me 25D that was somewhat of a mess too. I replaced the compass with the updated model that had an adapter so the hole was covered (about $150.00). I have cleaned off the depth and if it does not work when I launch the boat, I will pull it out and send to DMS on Cape Cod for repair. The repair will probably cost more than a new one, but it fits the hole. As for GPS, I will either use a portable one or put an equipment arm next to the companionway where I can attach a gps that has as 12v plug. At the suggestion of someone on the board, I bought my husband a lowrance gps that works in the car and on the boat. It is very cute and less than $100.

I have a new wind instrument that was purchased for another boat and never got installed that I want to put on. I just hate cutting holes in the boat. It is square when depth and speed are round. I think I am going to put it under the compass on the starboard side and mount it on a teak mounting board so I only have to cut a small hole.

I would love to hear other ideas.

[trapper]

Hi Shipcarver,
I have a pretty new to me 25D that was somewhat of a mess too. I replaced the compass with the updated model that had an adapter so the hole was covered (about $150.00). I have cleaned off the depth and if it does not work when I launch the boat, I will pull it out and send to DMS on Cape Cod for repair. The repair will probably cost more than a new one, but it fits the hole. As for GPS, I will either use a portable one or put an equipment arm next to the companionway where I can attach a gps that has as 12v plug. At the suggestion of someone on the board, I bought my husband a lowrance gps that works in the car and on the boat. It is very cute and less than $100.

I have a new wind instrument that was purchased for another boat and never got installed that I want to put on. I just hate cutting holes in the boat. It is square when depth and speed are round. I think I am going to put it under the compass on the starboard side and mount it on a teak mounting board so I only have to cut a small hole.

I would love to hear other ideas.

[Ray Garcia]

One of the last projects I did before putting my boat in the water was the cockpit instruments. The compass was original, the depth worked, the windspeed/direction and knot log were broken. I decided to replace them all. The holes were already there so I had to replace them with something. I did not buy top of the line instruments. I purchased MOOR wind/speed, knot log, and depth for approx. $700. Not cheap but certainly less than the cost of one name brand instrument. I custom installed the compass to be read from the cabin as well (reverse heading). I had to straighten out all the wiring as well as run new wiring just to get everything working.

If the holes were not there I probably would not have installed anything but a compass and depth sounder. Wind speed and direction you really don't need, unless you are racing in my opinion. As for the speed log, my handheld Garmin GPS lets me know speed over ground and time to destination. I grieve when I see 6 knots on the instrument and 4 knots on the GPS, darn current. I try not to look sometimes. Depth is good, though if you know your charts and GPS displays them, why bother. It is nice though when entering a harbor at night, it brings a little reassurance at times.

Installing instruments is really a personal preference. Taking a traditionalist point of view I would have been satisfied with just a compass installed. My VHF radio, common sense, and GPS would have given me the rest of the info. Also every time you drill a hole, your adding the potential for water to enter. I used 3M 4200 to bed the instruments but I know the stuff will not last forever. Though I am inclined to believe it might. Running those wires, and making the connections is another story. Just more stuff to maintain as I see it.

Stick to the basics in my opinion. I would invest in a good GPS unit with chart plotter is possible first. A compass definitely. You really can go crazy with the instruments later but ask yourself do you really need them to "sail" a boat? Your pocketbook and enjoyment sailing will thank you. You can always start small and expand later.

Good luck.
[img]http://www.cd27spirit.us/images/board/spirit4.jpg[/img]

[Gary M]

Ya got to have a compass, but just because yours is old doesn't mean it is not servicable. Maybe your area has some marks set for swinging a compass. Hopefully you can keep it.

A depth sounder would depend on your area and what your doing with your boat. It is nice to have if your traveling in the fog or on a new moon close to shore. It is a must if you want to anchor a lot, although you can always use a lead line to sound the bottom.

I would put a handheld GPS, Chartplotter on the top of my list even if I told everyone to go together and buy it for me for Christmas or something. My Garmin 76 is pretty inexpensive and does the job. The battery life is great too

Wind speed and direction is a great luxury that I can live with out.

Radar is a great piece of safety gear but on a 22? At least that's my excuse.

Bottom line, I don't want a lot of stuff that I have to maintain and have enough power aboard to run everything.

I've got a good compass, a good GPS, a good VHS with a antennae at the top of the mast, a tiller pilot, and I've got a good anchor. To me, in my area, with what I do, that's good enough.

For interior lighting, I usually use a candle!

So what do you plan to do with your boat? Give it some thought before you head over to the marine store.

Gary

[Neil Gordon]

Gary asks a good question. "What do you want to do with your boat?" I'll add, "What's your sailing experience?"

>>My new to me CD27, with tiller, ...<<

Please don't say that you're considering a wheel as any sort of priority!

>>... old compuss and depth, ...<<

Old is okay if they work. If the compass is clear, swings cleanly and there's no bubble in it, worst case would probably be adjustment. You should check for deviation whether the compass is old or new, as mentioned. As for depth, if the old one works, keep it.

>>What do I need (limited budget so I am not considering radar) for coastal cruising, besides GPS, and where do I put it?<<

Before GPS, paper charts and a working knowledge of how to use charts, compass and depth, combined with looking around, to get you safely from here to there. Invest in a Coast Guard or equivalent course if you need the skill building.

I'll mention safety gear as #1 before investing in anything else. Spend in relation to where and how you sail, not based on what you can afford vs. boat gizmos. If you're planning coastal cruises, jack lines, comfy PFD, radar reflector, etc.

GPS... start with basis handheld if you want to go easy on the budget. If you can get lat/lon from a GPS, you can see on the chart where you are. GPS is especially good to have in fog when the basic looking around method of navigation becomes a bit more challenging.

[Shipscarver]

I have been reading charts and using a compass for over a half century. It's the electronics I find difficult and fascinating! OK - so I'm an old grunt.
I learned to sail on a little tiller boat, by Phil Rhodes; but that was a long time ago. My wife was with me for a bit over 35 years. She hated boats, hence my long absence from sailing. Since then I have grown used to being on much larger "O/P" boats. But now, at last, I have a boat big enough to go most places and small enough that I am not captive to a crew.
I will be sailing the Gulf Coast, The "I hate hurricanes," summer/winter Atlantic commute, and the Islands.
Among the things I know I want to install, on the port side external cabin wall next to the companionway are large gages for the engine temp, RPM, alarm lights, and oil pressure. Which, BTW, I am having trouble finding. Once found, I will set them in a mounted teak and mahogany box with a tempered glass cover. I really can't read that little box at ankle level in the cockpit, (told you I'm an ancient grunt).
The compass is on the starboard side, and the interior wall is open about an inch all around it. Compass looks original, but if so, why the large hole on the internal side? Anyway I will either close up the hole around the compass or replace the compass (after checking it out) to assure the integrity of the wall.
I am used to having the GPS mounted fore of the wheel. Now, no wheel, and no post to mount on.
I guess my real question goes to advantages/ cost, vendors, and availability of GPS, Chartplotters, etc. And what do you do with them? I can't picture myself holding the tiller between my legs (or set to the tiller peg bar I am making) with a GPS in my hands. Also, what is the equipment arm I keep seeing mentioned?
I really appreciate all the open and willing help this board provides.
And I hope to meet some of you at the Texas gathering.

[Neil Gordon]

If you have a lifetime of chart reading and your sailing will be more in open water than in between rocks in the fog, a "handheld" GPS might suffice. No need to handhold it... you can mount it same as it would mount on a dashboard. Next to the companionway would work.

Depending on where you are sailing, you can just turn it on every once in a while to confirm your DR position.

[hmeyrick]

Hi shipscarver.

I'll go out on a limb here, and say that a cheaper, lower end chartplotter is a pretty great thing to have, although the top shelf ones are probably pretty great too (I wouldn't know). Get the sort where you can buy a chip or card for your cruising area. Since I installed mine (incidentally, although its hardwired in, I'm too chicken to cut a hole in my pretty gelcoat, so the unit itself lives on a board which I stick in the companionway). Although traditionalists may object, I find I seldom even look at the compass anymore. The speedlog? It reliably reads a knot under the GPS speed: obviously, I'm going to believe the GPS as thereby I can imagine myself a better sailor.

When coming into a strange harbour, I also pull out my charts, but this isn't because I doubt my GPS but more because I find paper more legible, and also somewhat reassuring. When you can visually see the flashing red light, the symbol on the chart, and the symbol on the chartplotter, and they all seem to agree, it helps to alleviate my nagging feeling that somehow I'm some kind of raging incompetent.

I had a handheld GPS for a while (actually I probably still have it somewhere) but I think a hardwired one is better, because I hardly ever used the handheld, and if you're anything like me I think you'll find an installed one is so much easier to use. You just turn it on, and there it is. Modern handhelds won't kill you on batteries the way the old ones did, but the fixed ones really don't draw all that much juice either. I have found that having a chartplotter has really enhanced my sailing experience in ways that I wouldn't have expected.

Also I think a depthsounder is of prime importance, if you sail in places where there happens to be ground under the water.

[mgphl52]

... The speedlog? It reliably reads a knot under the GPS speed: obviously, I'm going to believe the GPS as thereby I can imagine myself a better sailor.

I agree pretty much, however, I do find "seeing" the difference between SOG on the GPS vs the knot log as a good indication of current that can greatly affect what you may want to do next... especially when sailing through narrow passages.

-michael

[Neil Gordon]

>>Although traditionalists may object, I find I seldom even look at the compass anymore.<<

The GPS track works okay in calmer/flatter conditions. But once the bow has to go up, down and around bigger waves, the GPS has a hard time knowing which way the boat is actually pointing.

>>The speedlog? It reliably reads a knot under the GPS speed: obviously, I'm going to believe the GPS as thereby I can imagine myself a better sailor.<<

You can calibrate the log so that it shows you going even faster!

Seriously, the GPS/log comparison is a good indicator of current. You need to know your speed log as I've found that they are more accurate at some speeds, less at others, more on one tack vs. the other, etc. As the season wears on and I forget to clean it, the critter factor also influences how fast the little wheel turns.

>>When you can visually see the flashing red light, the symbol on the chart, and the symbol on the chartplotter, and they all seem to agree, it helps to alleviate my nagging feeling that somehow I'm some kind of raging incompetent.<<

The tratidionalists would applaud using all available methods and comparing them.

>>Also I think a depthsounder is of prime importance, if you sail in places where there happens to be ground under the water.<<

It's not just for staying away from the bottom, of course. Distance to the bottom is one of those little data bits that confirm your position.

[CruiseAlong]

I find that a working depth sounder, knotmeter, compass are first line needs. A handheld GPS next....followed by low end chartplotter. I just picked up a Sixtex 95CP which I have to admit is a very nice addition. In the CPi model the attenna is also built in.

[hmeyrick]

Neil, Michael:

Point taken about using the speedlog to determine current. As a Great Lake sailor, currents aren't much of an issue for me so I hadn't thought about that.


Also, back to the original topic, I think Shipscarver should consider adding a VHF radio to the short list of "necessary electronics" if he doesn't already possess one. I can't think of why I didn't mention that in my earlier post.

[Joe CD MS 300]

Handheld GPS units (even some handheld chartplotts) are getting so cheap I think its kind of crazy not to have one. It should be part of the basic equipment you keep on board unless you always in familiar waters, never at night, never have fog, etc.

Joe

[Shipscarver]

I have a VHF. It's 28 years old, but I do have one.

I keep hearing people talk about "cheap" GPS and Chartplotters. I went to West, and the cheapest thing I saw was $500. Is that cheap?