pottie talk

[Troy Scott]

Folks,

More pottie talk, SORRY!

I'm trying to find the right toilet to replace the original Groco in my Cape Dory 36. It must fit under the fold-down teak shower seat, so it can't be taller than the original one, which I think is 16" tall. It also must have a household style bowl; the little round marine style just won't do.

I have found two possibilities that aren't outrageously expensive. However, I'm at a loss to see the $550 dollar difference in the two.

Jabsco, $200

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... 6&id=81181

Groco, $750

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=137935

Groco original to CD36:

http://www.defender.com/productsearchresult.jsp

I've also discovered the Groco Type 1 treatment system. Does anyone have any experience with that?

http://www.groco.net/08-CD-BURN/GROCO%2 ... ION-08.pdf

What about the Groco macerator pump that mounts on top of the HT?

[bottomscraper]

When we got Mahalo she had a Jabsco although it might be the smaller one. It worked fine for 2 years. Although we did winterize it had a crack in the base the following spring (maybe we didn't get all the water out). Since we were close to launch date when I discovered it we replaced with the same to minimize changes. Again no problems since then. Think of it this way, you can buy almost 4 Jabscos for the price of one Groco. The service kits are about half the price also.


Peggie Hall aka The Head Mistress recommends the Raritan PHII. I don't know if it will fit but you might want to check it out. Peggy knows more about MSDs than all of us put together. When time comes to replace ours that's what I will look into.

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=121903


Or you can go with the latest thing in MSDs:

[rtbates]

Troy:

Have you looked at the Lavac? I currently have a Lavac on order for our 25D. From the research that I've done seems like the head of choice for lots of folks. Very simple design and from what others have said and I quote, " it'll flush a tennis shoe". The head itself has no moving parts. Basically it seals the bowl and uses a large bilge type diaphram pump mounted externally to create a vacuum that sucks in fresh water. To 'dry' pump you simply open the lid and pump.
Good luck in your search.

[Troy Scott]

Thanks Rich,

Hey! I don't think I want that service following me around!

I plan to check later this evening to make certain the Jabsco will fit. I think it's about 13 3/4 " tall, while the small Groco original to the boat was only about 12 7/16" tall. It needs to fit under the folding teak seat which I'd like to leave as is. But I can modify it if I have to.

Randy,

I've studied the Lavac website. I believe I understand how it works. I can't see from their website whether or not they offer the larger, household-style bowl, so that might be a problem, depending whether their bowl is larger than the tiny one on the Groco HF-B. However, the Lavac is only 13" tall, so it is more likely to fit than the taller Jabsco. The idea of Lavac trouble-free operation is certainly appealing. But I don't think I would be able to take advantage of their option to use the same manual diaphragm pump to empty the HT, which is far removed from the head in the CD36.

Does anyone know how the bowl sizes compare, Groco HF-B to Lavac Popular?

[rtbates]

Troy:

I should be getting mine any day now so I'll let you know how it compares to our house hold version. I BELIEVE they are very close. I do KNOW that they are made of virtuous china. I'm really looking forward to being able to empty my head with a pump equal to my bilge pump.

[Troy Scott]

Randy,

Well we certainly wouldn't want any china with loose morals sailing with us on OUR boat!

[rtbates]

Randy,

Well we certainly wouldn't want any china with loose morals sailing with us on OUR boat!

OK smarty pants how about Vitreous China!! Spelling was never my strong suit.... Your reply did make me go find the correct word, so for that I a tad smarter

[tmsc]

Hey, Troy what is wrong with looses morals. It can be fun at times if I remember right.

Concerning your question about bowl size, I replaced the Groco on our Dory with the Lavac and to the best of my memory they were very close in size but the shape is a bit different. More rounded shape to the Lavac. However, I got the Zenith model before it was discontinued. They have diagrams with dimensions on there site. Have you seen that?

Bowl size is the one thing that I hate about 99% of marine heads. I really wish that the bowl sizes were household size.

[Troy Scott]

Lee,

Household size bowls on marine heads are available from several manufacturers. I've bought several in the past. But Lavac has only the one style. I talked to them today. I learned that the ID of the seat is 9.5", which is about .5 inches more than the little Groco that came on the CD36.

[Troy Scott]

Randy,

I learned a long time ago that many otherwise brilliant people can't spell. I no longer associate spelling with intelligence. I thoroughly enjoyed your virtuous post on our righteous forum. And you're not the first to call me smarty pants.

I ordered a Lavac toilet today. Now I just have to figure out where to install the virtuous pump.

[rtbates]

Randy,

I learned a long time ago that many otherwise brilliant people can't spell. I no longer associate spelling with intelligence. I thoroughly enjoyed your virtuous post on our righteous forum. And you're not the first to call me smarty pants.

I ordered a Lavac toilet today. Now I just have to figure out where to install the virtuous pump.

Troy:

Good luck with your install. I pondered the "where to put the pump" question for weeks and finally just decided that I'll figure it out. My current idea is to come out of the head with a very short,4-6" hose, go into the pump and then out and up maybe 6" and back down into the stock 25D's holding tank plumbing. The 11/2 " hose I bought is pretty flexible and makes a pretty sharp bend. Then wherever the pump ends up I'll build a support bracket as needed. But to be honest I'm hoping that the short hose sections on both sides of the pump will hold it well enough. The pump should end up just above mid bowl level. As the only discharge is into the holding tank no big loops are required. We'll see. I'm planing on setting up the head and pump at the house and giving it a tryout using a bucket of water acting as the seacock.

[rtbates]

First the lavac seat is perfectly round, household is slightly oval.

Lavac seat is 9.5" inside dia and 13.5" dia outside

Household seat is 15.5"x 14.5" outside dia and 8.5" x 10" indise dia.

The virtuous Vitreous china bowl is very nicely done.

The lavac seat is not as comfortable as the household version due to it's smaller ring (only 2" wide) so you most likely won't want to hang out sitting on it to read the morning paper.

I did fill the bowl with water at the house and pump it out and boy does it pump. without a pump exit hose I could squirt a stream of water 3-4'. Tonight I will experiment with the water inlet hose in a bucket using the two supplied air inlet fittings in the water intake hose to see how much water each size pulls into the bowl with the lid shut and a vacuum created.

[Troy Scott]

Randy,

I'm glad the Lavac is working out for you. It's a great unit. I wish it would work for me.

BTW, I measured the two inside dimensions of the seat on the toilet next to my office. The long way it's 11 5/8". Another one in the house measures 10 1/4" the long way. If I could get to the other one without disturbing the teenager I would measure it and get the average of the three. Apparently there is no "standard".

I like the Lavac, but I cancelled the order because it was just going to be too difficult and impractical to accommodate it.

This has been a learning experience!

[Boyd]

Hi Randy:

You just have to get close to get the job done.

Please post pictures and details of your installation. I have a Lavac on the schedule for the Winter 08 improvements to Tern and am very curious how to work out the installation of the pump.

Thanks
Boyd
s/v Tern
CD 30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fl

[Bill Cochrane]

Randy et al...I'm following this discussion with interest as I have a Lavac awaiting installation and I'm trying to figure out how to do it without (or maybe with) having the bulkhead look like a chandlery's plumbing display wall. I'm complicating things with a y-valve to direct discharge as well as to the tank. Ideas and photos of installations would be very welcome.

The pump should end up just above mid bowl level.

Lavac says that "The bottom of the pump must not be mounted at a lower level than the top of the bowl." In another paragraph, they specify the pump inlet to be no lower than the bowl top. Not sure what they're trying to prevent here but you may want to ask Blakes, or reconsider. It may not be an issue with you pumping directly to the tank?

I'd also want the pump secured to a bulkhead or otherwise fixed in position. Even if the hose clamp was enough to resist the hose popping off from pumping action, I'd be a bit concerned with fatigue from flexing.