Nonskid and Hull Repairs

[dmdoiron]

I wrote several weeks ago about a "seeping" hull in a Typhoon that I had just bought. I appreciate the responses I recieved - they were very helpful. Since then I removed the bottom paint from the location of the 5 or so seepage/moist spots in the hull just forward of the rudder on the port side. In addition to these moist spots, the bilge drain (at the bottom of the keel) itself was leaking through the sealant.

The good news is that all but one of the areas looks good - no gel coat cracks or deterioration. The bad news is that one area - the one near the bilge drain fitting - had gel coat that had turned to a slightly moist plaster consistency. After removing the bottom paint I was able to remove the gel coat with a putty knife down to the first layer of fiberglass. The exposed area starts at the bilge drain and is a rough triangle about 10 inches by 6 inches.

Here's what I'm thinking of doing. Since the fiberglass itself looks in good shape, I'm thinking of putting a layer of epoxy resin over the area and then gelcoat and then painting it with epoxy barrier paint.
Is that a good plan?

While I've been working on that, I've spent far more time on the topsides and deck. In the past week, I've removed all the hardware and teak on the boat with the idea of completely painting the deck and topsides before cold weather arrives here in Maine. I'll be priming everything with Interlux Primekote 2-part epoxy primer because crazing is widespread.

There are several areas on the nonskid that are heavily "alligatored," these look like areas that were previously repaired. I've sanded these areas down to the underlying gelcoat. Now I'm wondering what to do next. Should these areas be built back up to the level of the surrounding nonskid? If so, what do I use for that - gelcoat? The areas are so shallow that I wonder how well the gelcoat will stay to the surface.

I'm also planning on applying grit to the final prime coat on teh nonskid areas before it dries and then applying a coat of finish paint on that. Has anyone used that approach? Does it work well or is it better to get the paint with the polypropylene beads?

[Oswego John]

Hi Dennis,

I generally finish the area with gelcoat. Next, I apply a coat of prime paint. Before the prime dries, I apply sand. I buy my sand in Ace hardware. It comes in three grits. I use the medium grit.

I find that if I use a salt shaker, I can apply an even amount of grit without a buildup in any spot. After the prime paint has dried, I then cover the deck with a finish coat of my choice of color.

The non-skid grit that I use has a dark color and is easy to spot on the prime paint, allowing an even coat of abrasive. The finish coat hides the dark colored abrasive and tends to smooth everything out a bit.

Good luck,
O J

[Ocean Girl]

I painted the deck of a 40 ft boat (after repairing soft spots). I used a product from west marine that looked like little plastic beads. I can't remember the name of it but it was great to work with. I mixed the beads into the paint before pouring into the roller pan. It went on evenly and had fantastic nonskid properties (more gentle on the skin). I did mix it every so often to prevent settling (40 ft boat= a lot of surface) but it seemed unneccessary. It doesn't change the color of the paint and gives the surface a matte appearance. I think its made by Interlux.
I sold the boat a year later so I can't attest to the durability.
Hope this helps, Good luck and have fun!
Erika

[Markst95]

Hi Dennis- in reguards to the repair, I would skip the gelcoat, use the epoxy and cover with the barrier coat. The epoxy is waterproof and will stick to the barrier coat better, since it is also epoxy based. Whenever you are painting a repair, you don't need gelcoat as the paint provides the uv protection that the epoxy needs. Good luck with your typhoon, I'm restoring a 72 that needs core replacement on the cabintop and front deck. Mark

[dmdoiron]

Thanks, everyone for your replies. This is a great board for someone like me who is doing all this for the first time.

Mark, just so it's clear, it's ok to just use an epoxy resin (with a hardener) or should there be any other additive in the epoxy? Would you also use epoxy rather than gelcoat in the nonskid areas, since I'll be painting that too with an epoxy primer?

[Markst95]

you can use epoxy by itself to waterproof but additives make it thicker to fill in gaps better and stay on more vertical surfaces better. I use colloidal silica to thicken for structural repairs (stronger harder) and microballons for fairing (easier to sand). I use MAS epoxy products but others have been happy with the West system epoxy. I would skip the gelcoat on the noskid areas, the paint will stick to the epoxy fine, just ruff it up with some 80 grit sandpaper and wipe it down. I think they don't recommend using gelcoat over epoxy anyway. Besides gelcoat is more of a pain to work with, you have to cover it or it won't dry properly.

[Ron M.]

Strongly advise against mixing non skid into paint and then rolling it on.You have little controll of the particle disbursment after one stroke with the roller and will end up with uneven clumps. Perhaps it's just me, but I never had satisfactory results with this method.
Salt shaker method will produce much more uniform texture. I like the polymeric beads, they absorb the paint so color consistancy remains as surface wears. After much experimentation, I find a mix of 1/3 coarse and 2/3 medium texture additive (Awlgrip product) provides a good grip that is aggressive - but not too sharp. You can knock it down with sandpaper and re-coat if need be.
I add the texture in the 2nd topcoat then follow with 1 or 2 more coats.
Practice first on something else until you develop a 'feel' for system that you are comfortable with.
________
MAC GAMES

[Dave Brandt]

Hi Dennis,

I had a similar problem with my cd-25. When I got the area in question opened up I found some fairly large void areas, where there was never any glass or resin, so watch out for that. Also, if the area is at all wet, it will need to be completely dried out prior to the repair work. I used epoxy and glass for the repairs. I also applied an epoxy barrier coat to the hull. Since I had the boat opened up at the time, I also epoxied the inside of the low point of the bilge. If you have any other questions, let me know.

Dave

[Tod M]

of this product - kiwigrip - , I think I'll probably go with it when I re-do the non-skid on my project boat...

http://www.pachena.com/

[dmdoiron]

Thanks again everyone. I think I'll use the salt shaker approach, but need to look further into using sand or the beads.

On the hull issue, Dave, what do I need to do to check for voids? The glass below the gelcoat (which is now removed) looks and sounds solid to me. What should I be looking for? Should I do a test bore or two? Grind the surface a bit?

In regard to having a dry hull before applying epoxy, is it just the surface that needs to be dry? I suspect the answer will be no, but am hoping it is yes.

[Dave Brandt]

Dennis,

I don't know the Typhoon, but suspect it is similar to my 25. My boat also had been "seeping" before I became the owner, what I suspect was the cause is that during construction the builders had trouble keeping the mat & roving stuffed back in the tight bends of the mold and it pulled free during the layup. My gelcoat was pretty much intact until I started working with it. The voids could not be missed, there was dry mat and void spaces between the gelcoat and the inner layers of glass from the gudgon all the way up the along the rudder shaft. If this is the issue, it should be easy to spot.

Dry, means just that, you are going to have to get all the moisture out of the area to be repaired. I know this can be accelerated by carefully using a heat source. My boat had been out of the water for several prior to my purchasing it and I still had to do some drying before could build it back up.

I used the sand and epoxy method on my non skids, I thought it was quite a bit of work and kind oh difficult tho get a uniform finish. I am pleased with the end result, but suspect there are products on the market that would make the job easier.

Dave

[Dick Villamil]

I agree that the deck and hull must be thoroughly dried out. Sounds like water got into the layup due to air bubbles and voids - then froze and made micro cracks in the epoxy. Prefer that you let it dry out over the winter. Perhaps sand off the surface to solid dry base then let the hull dry out. Do not rush the repairs - spring is a long way off (7 more months in Vermont!!!!) Do the work in spring. As for new nonskid I use a supply of nonskid sand and have done two boats this way - I pour some paint into a separate can then add a standard amount of non skid - measure the amount but remember - a little sand goes a long way. Too much sand and it will clump. Practice on a separate surface. Then use a paint brush - not a roller. After the paint dries add a sesond top coat to lock the sand in place and to dull the sharp edges. This process is more of an art - you don't want to use too much sand. Mix periodically to keep the sand suspended. When finished clean the brush but label it for non skid due to the sand in the bristles. Tape off the areas that are not non skid.

[dmdoiron]

I wonder if I'm the first one to buy an old boat to fix up and find that there is more work to do than expected?

I had been hoping to fix up everything this fall, but things are clearer now. The good news is that I just measured the boat dimensions and one of my garage door openings and, by inches, will be able to fit in the boat for the winter. That should keep the hull dry for spring repairs.

In the meantime, I'm on track to finish the topside and deck patching and painting this fall. I just got in from taking the mast footing off with the help of an impact tool - that was the next to last fitting on the boat. That needed to come off for me to squeeze the boat into the garage. The bronze bow fixture is the only piece left. That seems so snugly on that I'm inclined to leave it on and paint around it. Is that advisable?

Also, I was wondering whether with some of the hardware fittings - especially the mast footing and the backstay - I should fill in the holes with epoxy and then drill out new holes through the epoxy. I was thinking it would result in a more snug fitting. If I don't do that, does anyone have any thoughts - now the hardware is off - about what I should do other than just rebedding the hardware?

[Markst95]

Dennis- I'm suprised you don't have any soft spots on the decks, mine has quite a few. The proper way to seal any through deck is to drill it out slightly bigger, take a bent nail and put it into a drill and clean out the core around the screw hole. vacuum out the hole and Fill with epoxy and then re-drill the hole. This way you've sealed the core against water intrusion. If your deck is still in good shape though you could get by with rebedding the deck hardware with 3m's 4200 or similar. Check out Don Caseys books, he has some good insites on do the jobs right.

http://www.amazon.com/Sailboat-Repair-I ... 202&sr=8-1