I have a Typhoon daysailer (completely open style -- no teak combings, but teak seats, toerail, etc.) I understand that "Honeyteak" is a good product, but can't find details on the web to obtain it. Does anyone have the source details or any experience with using it? Also, I need to make a few small repairs to the topside gelcoat. Is there an accepted name for the factory original Cape Dory topside gelcoat color? Finally, I need to replace my tiller and taffrail. Does anyone know of a source for these parts or must I make my own?
mhbarth@bestweb.net
Teak Product; Gelcoat Color; Wood Trim
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Anthony P. Jeske
Re: Teak Product; Gelcoat Color; Wood Trim
Mark:
The "Where to Look" section of this website will give you the info on a source for wood parts.
I went through the agonies of trying various teak oils, which lasted up to three months; to various varnishes, which lasted nearly a season; to Cetol, which lasts all season. A single recoat each year keeps it looking great. Some Cetol users object to the orangey color it gives to the teak, however.
Time, sun and weather have most likely changed the color of the gelcoat on your boat. As a result, the factory white may not match after all. If you need to, you can tint the stock white avalable from marine suppliers.
You may want to get a copy of the Gougeon Brothers "Fiberglass Boat Repair and Maintenance Manual" before you redo your gelcoat. There's a nice how-to section in the book on gelcoat.
Good Luck,
Tony Jeske
ajeske@ixpres.com
The "Where to Look" section of this website will give you the info on a source for wood parts.
I went through the agonies of trying various teak oils, which lasted up to three months; to various varnishes, which lasted nearly a season; to Cetol, which lasts all season. A single recoat each year keeps it looking great. Some Cetol users object to the orangey color it gives to the teak, however.
Time, sun and weather have most likely changed the color of the gelcoat on your boat. As a result, the factory white may not match after all. If you need to, you can tint the stock white avalable from marine suppliers.
You may want to get a copy of the Gougeon Brothers "Fiberglass Boat Repair and Maintenance Manual" before you redo your gelcoat. There's a nice how-to section in the book on gelcoat.
Good Luck,
Tony Jeske
ajeske@ixpres.com
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Duncan Maio
Re: Teak Product; Gelcoat Color; Wood Trim
St. Angelo Hardwoods in Bristol, RI (check the sources on this board) has the original cutters and molding patterns for the Cape Dorys; the last time I checked, however, they did not have much of a catalog or indexing system, and so could not simply provide a part without a pattern to compare it to.Mark Barth wrote: I need to replace my tiller and taffrail. Does anyone know of a source for these parts or must I make my own?
If you can make patterns (or send the old parts) I can have my shop make them for you. Send an e-mail.
Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI
dmaio@meganet.net
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John R.
Gelcoat, Honey Teak, Bristol Finish
Mark,Mark Barth wrote: I have a Typhoon daysailer (completely open style -- no teak combings, but teak seats, toerail, etc.) I understand that "Honeyteak" is a good product, but can't find details on the web to obtain it. Does anyone have the source details or any experience with using it? Also, I need to make a few small repairs to the topside gelcoat. Is there an accepted name for the factory original Cape Dory topside gelcoat color? Finally, I need to replace my tiller and taffrail. Does anyone know of a source for these parts or must I make my own?
A company by the name of Gel-Coat Products (GCP) is a wholesale supplier to yards and builders across the country. They will sell you gelcoat at the retail level. They carry original CD colors and will custom mix colors. Their minimum quantity is 1 quart. They will split the quart into two pints and thicken one pint into a repair paste/putty. They charge an additional $15.00 to split the quart and thicken one pint of it.
As an example, my last order for my CD30 was one quart of hull white and one quart of non-skid beige. There is no non-skid additive in the beige quart, just gelcoat. I had both the white and the beige quarts split into pints and one pint of each color thickened into repair paste. The colors match perfectly. You must furnish them with the year of manufacture of the vessel. The order costs broke down as follows:
1 - 1 quart 1983 Cape Dory off white w/wax - $54.95
1 - 1/2 quart thickened - $15.00
1 - 1 quart 1983 Cape Dory nonskid beige w/wax - $54.95
1 - 1/2 quart thickened - $15.00
A total of $139.90 plus shipping. Heh, it's a boat!
You may also need MEKP catalyst.
Their contact info is:
Gel-Coat Products
1109 North West 52nd
Seattle, Wa. 98107
PH: 206/781-1162
As for Honey Teak which is part of Signature Finishes, made by Fabula Incorporated I can only tell you that I only recently obtained product info from them. The product is an acrylic urethane. Here is what they claim:
1) Spray on, easily repairable
2) Sandable and buffable
3) No sealers
4) No primers
5) Apply all coats in one day
6) Brush on - roll on - spray on
7) Application not affected by temperature
8) Can withstand snuffing of a cigarette - 2000 degrees F
9) Not affected by teak cleaners, MEK, laquer thinner, acetone, battery acid or fuels.
10) Uneven teak need not be sanded, only cleaned with Snappy Teak cleaner (trace varnish removing property which removes any trace varnish from the grain).
There are two steps to the process. First you put on 3 coats of what they call the "Honey" which has the UV inhibitors and color in it. Then you put on the clear coats which don't change or darken the color. They say a minimum of two coats and as many as 8 coats are needed, you can apply wet on wet within 20 to 60 minutes. Both the clear and the Honey use a catalyst agent and an optional "flow fluid" to help with workability.
I'm also looking at another product called Bristol Finish made by C-tech. It also is an acrylic urethane very similar to Honey Teak except that it is crystal clear. It applies in a very similar fashion except there aren't different parts like "honey" and "clear". The Honey Teak is claimed to look like 10 coats of typical spar varnish after it is applied. Others on this board have it on their boats and can furnish you more real world advice from an application and result point of view. I know some others are also using the Bristol Finish. There is another product out there that is a two part urethane / epoxy product called CEPS made by Smith and Co. That's all I know about it, maybe someone else has more info. Below is contact info for Honey Teak and Bristol Finish, they will both send you product info.
Signature Finish - Honey Teak
Fabula Incorporated
P.O. Box 1041
Port Salerno, Fl. 34992
PH: 561/287-6077 Ask to speak with Tom Fabula
C-Tech Marine - Bristol Finish
489 Ballard Dr.
Melbourne, Fl. 32935
PH: 407/752-7533
e-mail: ctmarine@bellsouth.net
Both of these products are expensive. I believe I was quoted about $140.00 to do my CD30 (teak = 75 square feet) with Honey Teak. They make up a kit determined by the approximate square footage of teak you have on board. Honey teak makes similar paint enamels also.
The Bristol Finish was quoted to me at $49.95 / quart kit. One quart kit coverage of 6 coats over 40 square feet. Cheaper than Honey Teak by roughly one third.
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John Nuttall
A little more about C-Tech's Bristol Finish
Hi Mark,
John R did an EXCELLENT job with the above post. Really super. I'd just like to add a little, since I actually bought some Bristol Finish and got a little brightwork done before the bad weather hit. Can you believe the nearly 2 feet of snow we just got here in NC???-Larry D.- I now know how the Lake Superior sailors feel in winter.-)
Getting back on to the subject. First of all, let me state that I am a brightwork rookie. Before I got started with all this I had no knowledge about brightwork, and no brushing technique. Now I have a little knowledge and no brushing technique!!! I'll share the knowledge to help shorten your learning curve, but you'd do well to adopt someone elses brushing technique....
I chose C-Tech after much hemming and hawing, reading, phoning suppliers, mfgs, checking in on the Wooden Boat Forum and looking at what other folks use. It took me a year to decide or rather worry over it- just ask Ryan Turner, my dockmate. I really wanted the beauty of traditional varnish, but the ease of maintenance that ugly ol Cetol affords. Or more importantly for me, the ability to do maintenance coats every 2-3 yrs as opposed to every 8 months with varnish.
Well Pratical Sailors' review of Honey Teak & Smiths got me thinking about 2 part systems, but I was afraid of their adhesiveness. You have to grind them off - heat won't soften them so you can't scrape them off. And the chemical removers that you would have to use are outrageously expensive (interlux pintoff). Heck, the products themselves were/are expensive according to PS. I am not experienced with varnish and the thought of putting something on my 31 that I'd have to jackhammer off later if I messed it up scared the dickens out of me!!!
After talking to the folks at both C-Tech and Signature Finish, I chose C-Tech product. Both groups were very nice and informative. Interestingly enough, C-Tech is headed up by a group of employees who used to work for Signature Finish. According to them they set out to make a product that is easier to use, less expensive, and closer in color to traditional spar varnish.
Both products seem similar at first. Both are 2 part urethanes (isocyanates, like Awlgrip) but that's where the similarity ends. C-Tech's Bristol Finish is not a 2 step process like Honey Teak - base then gloss. It's a one step. You mix the three components each time you need a batch. Layer it on until you build up 6 coats. So that's a little simpler, from my rookie point of view. And touch up would be simpler too, although I am told these finishes are hard as nails - we'll see....
It flows/levels very nicely (you need to put in the right amount of reducer for the conditions) and it's easy to brush. Depending on the conditions and the amount of reducer you mix in, it will "kick" in under an hour. It is very easy to get multiple coats on in a day. Even in Dec., with the short days I was able to get 4 coats on in a day (after waiting til noon for the dew to evap. and wood to warm up).
And the color???? FANTASTIC . And the gloss - get out the Ray Bans.......Seriously though, I am pleased. Once I got into it I found it is easy to work with. Just follow the excellent directions provided ( and wear a respirator! Even if you are outdoors - it's nasty stuff). You really can put on alot more in a day than you'd imagine, so my best tip would be to prep the entire boat first. By the time you get to the end of your first coat, your starting place will be ready for another. Just keep this up until you have 6 coats built up.
Oh, the "build up" a new phrase I learned
is good and easy. If you have to go longer than 24 hrs between coats, you'll need to scratch the last with a red scotchbrite. If you prep correctly and completely before hand and get a good weekend there's no reason why you can't apply all six coats in one weekend. NO sanding - that was another appealing thing to me.
So, now we are down to the last "decison factor". PRICE !!! I paid $106.00 (ship. incl.) for 88oz. Enough to do my 31. Honey Teak was going to run me about $184 if I recall. The difference covered the price of some top quality brushes, prep materials, solvents rags, etc., etc., etc. Those etceteras really add up. Especially the beer etcetera.
So in summary I'd say that C-Tech has met their goal. Simpler, easier, and it really looks like varnish. The only cog in the works is the weather, and ME !!!
G-Luck,
John Nuttall
s/v Aimless
CD31 #28
Oriental, NC
nuttallj@msn.com
John R did an EXCELLENT job with the above post. Really super. I'd just like to add a little, since I actually bought some Bristol Finish and got a little brightwork done before the bad weather hit. Can you believe the nearly 2 feet of snow we just got here in NC???-Larry D.- I now know how the Lake Superior sailors feel in winter.-)
Getting back on to the subject. First of all, let me state that I am a brightwork rookie. Before I got started with all this I had no knowledge about brightwork, and no brushing technique. Now I have a little knowledge and no brushing technique!!! I'll share the knowledge to help shorten your learning curve, but you'd do well to adopt someone elses brushing technique....
I chose C-Tech after much hemming and hawing, reading, phoning suppliers, mfgs, checking in on the Wooden Boat Forum and looking at what other folks use. It took me a year to decide or rather worry over it- just ask Ryan Turner, my dockmate. I really wanted the beauty of traditional varnish, but the ease of maintenance that ugly ol Cetol affords. Or more importantly for me, the ability to do maintenance coats every 2-3 yrs as opposed to every 8 months with varnish.
Well Pratical Sailors' review of Honey Teak & Smiths got me thinking about 2 part systems, but I was afraid of their adhesiveness. You have to grind them off - heat won't soften them so you can't scrape them off. And the chemical removers that you would have to use are outrageously expensive (interlux pintoff). Heck, the products themselves were/are expensive according to PS. I am not experienced with varnish and the thought of putting something on my 31 that I'd have to jackhammer off later if I messed it up scared the dickens out of me!!!
After talking to the folks at both C-Tech and Signature Finish, I chose C-Tech product. Both groups were very nice and informative. Interestingly enough, C-Tech is headed up by a group of employees who used to work for Signature Finish. According to them they set out to make a product that is easier to use, less expensive, and closer in color to traditional spar varnish.
Both products seem similar at first. Both are 2 part urethanes (isocyanates, like Awlgrip) but that's where the similarity ends. C-Tech's Bristol Finish is not a 2 step process like Honey Teak - base then gloss. It's a one step. You mix the three components each time you need a batch. Layer it on until you build up 6 coats. So that's a little simpler, from my rookie point of view. And touch up would be simpler too, although I am told these finishes are hard as nails - we'll see....
It flows/levels very nicely (you need to put in the right amount of reducer for the conditions) and it's easy to brush. Depending on the conditions and the amount of reducer you mix in, it will "kick" in under an hour. It is very easy to get multiple coats on in a day. Even in Dec., with the short days I was able to get 4 coats on in a day (after waiting til noon for the dew to evap. and wood to warm up).
And the color???? FANTASTIC . And the gloss - get out the Ray Bans.......Seriously though, I am pleased. Once I got into it I found it is easy to work with. Just follow the excellent directions provided ( and wear a respirator! Even if you are outdoors - it's nasty stuff). You really can put on alot more in a day than you'd imagine, so my best tip would be to prep the entire boat first. By the time you get to the end of your first coat, your starting place will be ready for another. Just keep this up until you have 6 coats built up.
Oh, the "build up" a new phrase I learned
is good and easy. If you have to go longer than 24 hrs between coats, you'll need to scratch the last with a red scotchbrite. If you prep correctly and completely before hand and get a good weekend there's no reason why you can't apply all six coats in one weekend. NO sanding - that was another appealing thing to me.So, now we are down to the last "decison factor". PRICE !!! I paid $106.00 (ship. incl.) for 88oz. Enough to do my 31. Honey Teak was going to run me about $184 if I recall. The difference covered the price of some top quality brushes, prep materials, solvents rags, etc., etc., etc. Those etceteras really add up. Especially the beer etcetera.
So in summary I'd say that C-Tech has met their goal. Simpler, easier, and it really looks like varnish. The only cog in the works is the weather, and ME !!!
G-Luck,
John Nuttall
s/v Aimless
CD31 #28
Oriental, NC
nuttallj@msn.com