I recently bought a 1980 CD 25. I am very pleased except that in any kind of a breeze the rudder is very unresponsive to the helm. I saw another CD 25 in Annapolis last weekend and the new owner had raised the mounting for the motor so that the helmsman can move the motor to help steer the boat when there is a tight spot and the fixed position of the motor prevents this added boost in steering. I plan to do the same on my boat this fall when I haul it or sooner if I can find a yard on Long Island Sound that is familiar with this problem and would be able to do the work.
Is there anyone out there how has had this problem with his CD 25 and has any thoiughts on the subject.
It seems to me to be a fairly serious fault and someone else must have found a way to raise the engine mount to allow the swing of the motor beyond the fixed position. Thanks,
John Milnes Baker
Cape Dory 25 - Outboard Well
Moderator: bobdugan
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John Milnes Baker
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Jun 29th, '08, 12:19
- Location: Looking for CD 25 - preferably with teak below. (Not a 25D)
Cape Dory 25 - Outboard Well
I am a long-time member of the Norwalk (CT) Yacht Club. Hope to find a CD 25 soon and get some sailing in this summer.
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Bruce Bett
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Apr 5th, '05, 07:48
- Location: CD30 #326 Malinche Port Sanilac MI
Member # 1160
CD 25 rudder
Are you talking about steering in reverse? If that's the case I would suggest that you get good at warping with dock lines and using the wind to move you around. If you are saying that the rudder is unresponsive when you are moving forward, unless you are expecting very quick response, then I think there is something wrong with your boat. I sailed a CD25 for over 11 years. She should steer just fine.
Bruce Bett
Bruce Bett
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Terry
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Jul 14th, '08, 14:31
- Location: CD-25 Cassandra #567
Lake Lanier, North Georgia
www.jonahzsong.com
John,
I agree with Bruce, but will clarify that response making headway needs some water running around the rudder. Making sternway, sharp to starboard is not as bad as port- a result of prop rotation.
My 1977 CD-25 is original, but has some room to turn the motor slightly--just enough to really make a difference. I actually thought of locking it forward 'cuz under power it tends to move a bit and off track.
All the best,
Terry
I agree with Bruce, but will clarify that response making headway needs some water running around the rudder. Making sternway, sharp to starboard is not as bad as port- a result of prop rotation.
My 1977 CD-25 is original, but has some room to turn the motor slightly--just enough to really make a difference. I actually thought of locking it forward 'cuz under power it tends to move a bit and off track.
All the best,
Terry
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Neil Gordon
- Posts: 4367
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 17:25
- Location: s/v LIQUIDITY, CD28. We sail from Marina Bay on Boston Harbor. Try us on channel 9.
- Contact:
>>... in any kind of a breeze the rudder is very unresponsive to the helm.<<
Since you only seem to be talking about when motoring, are you also only talking about motoring at low speed? Does the rudder work while sailing? If so, then the boat and rudder are probably fine.
If speed is low and wind is high, you'll find more force on the rig than force on the rudder. The wind will take the bow regardless of what you do with the rudder. The good news is that it's predictable.
Since you only seem to be talking about when motoring, are you also only talking about motoring at low speed? Does the rudder work while sailing? If so, then the boat and rudder are probably fine.
If speed is low and wind is high, you'll find more force on the rig than force on the rudder. The wind will take the bow regardless of what you do with the rudder. The good news is that it's predictable.
Fair winds, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
noob to noob
Congratulations on your purchase!
What size motor are you using? Most smaller motors can be turned in the well if you have too. I have moved away from doing this.
I'm also assuming that you are only talking about being under power.
I'm a noobie with my CD25 so I have an idea of what you might be facing. It is way different then a fin keel. When I first got the boat a few months ago, I would turn the motor in the well. I realized that this was more trouble then it was worth. I ended up having to think about too many things with throttle, forward, reverse, steering the rudder, steering the motor, and worrying about the rest of the boat and the world around me.
Now I do everything with the rudder, and I pretend that there is no reverse on the outboard (unless I screw up then I will reach into the motor well and use reverse in emergency mode)
I'm curious about what the other CD owner did. Like many on this board, I actually lowered my motor so that I could shut the hood and get the prop lower in the water. Raising the motor will create a host of other problems.
Could provide some more information about what the other CD owner did? What model motor does the other owner have (yr, hp, length of shaft, and cycles (or model number?)) What motor are you currently using?
What size motor are you using? Most smaller motors can be turned in the well if you have too. I have moved away from doing this.
I'm also assuming that you are only talking about being under power.
I'm a noobie with my CD25 so I have an idea of what you might be facing. It is way different then a fin keel. When I first got the boat a few months ago, I would turn the motor in the well. I realized that this was more trouble then it was worth. I ended up having to think about too many things with throttle, forward, reverse, steering the rudder, steering the motor, and worrying about the rest of the boat and the world around me.
Now I do everything with the rudder, and I pretend that there is no reverse on the outboard (unless I screw up then I will reach into the motor well and use reverse in emergency mode)
I'm curious about what the other CD owner did. Like many on this board, I actually lowered my motor so that I could shut the hood and get the prop lower in the water. Raising the motor will create a host of other problems.
Could provide some more information about what the other CD owner did? What model motor does the other owner have (yr, hp, length of shaft, and cycles (or model number?)) What motor are you currently using?
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Terry
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Jul 14th, '08, 14:31
- Location: CD-25 Cassandra #567
Lake Lanier, North Georgia
www.jonahzsong.com
I've a 1977 6hp--very small motor--so it does turn a bit in the well. I'm dreaming of a Honda 9.9 with electric start and alternator and remote control. Don't figure it will even fit without a hole in the cover.
As for handling, I generally only need to motor in reverse when leaving the slip. The docks are close, so I need to make a hard turn before heading out. This is where turning the motor really helps. But for normal usage, it stays fixed straight ahead. Without turning the motor, I can make a "Y" turn with a couple of jocking fore and aft to make it all the way. I'm not that good in a heavy wind yet. Practicing still.
Motoring into the slip is usually done in neutral, occassionally slipping into forward. I only need reverse I don't correctly estimate my approach, and want to slow.
Regards, Terry
As for handling, I generally only need to motor in reverse when leaving the slip. The docks are close, so I need to make a hard turn before heading out. This is where turning the motor really helps. But for normal usage, it stays fixed straight ahead. Without turning the motor, I can make a "Y" turn with a couple of jocking fore and aft to make it all the way. I'm not that good in a heavy wind yet. Practicing still.
Motoring into the slip is usually done in neutral, occassionally slipping into forward. I only need reverse I don't correctly estimate my approach, and want to slow.
Regards, Terry
I have a 2003 Nissan 8 HP outboard (NS8BEF) w/ electric start on my 1978 CD25. The motor easily fits into the lazerette.
I believe the outboard is a Long Shaft with a standard size 7.0 prop
I don't swivel or turn the motor although the motor does turn slightly.
the motor mount of my boat is made of laminated starboard. The mount is notched so the outboard sits a few inches lower (3 in).
The throttle handle needs to be folded back to close the cover. The HP seems to be plenty to push my 1978 CD25. I always operate the motor with the cover open.
I believe the outboard is a Long Shaft with a standard size 7.0 prop
I don't swivel or turn the motor although the motor does turn slightly.
the motor mount of my boat is made of laminated starboard. The mount is notched so the outboard sits a few inches lower (3 in).
The throttle handle needs to be folded back to close the cover. The HP seems to be plenty to push my 1978 CD25. I always operate the motor with the cover open.
Denis
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henry hey
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Oct 14th, '06, 00:48
- Location: Former owner: CD25 - 'Homeward Bound' hull #711. Now sailing with C. Brey aboard Sabre 28 Delphine
rudder action cd25
Since you have just purchased your CD25 I want to ask about your experience with other boats. Forgive me if these questions sound silly. Please don't be insulted -- just trying to cover the bases. Was your previous experience with fin-keel boats? Have you sailed a full keel vessel before in light air?
If you have then simply disregard this line of questioning. If not. . . .
There is a pretty extreme difference in light air steerage between a cd25 (or any similar full keel vessel) and any of the more 'modern' hull designs. I teach on J-24s and have chartered on a number of Beneteaus. The Cape Dory is a different beast and will turn much more slowly that those fin-keels when the water speed over the rudder is slow. I also find that she very much dislikes reverse. That all being said, I am able to get her around pretty nicely in light air with some patience. It does help to have a motor that pivots a little in the well. I have a Tohatsu (nissan) 8hp long shaft and I can turn it a little bit. I find that a small amount of turning combined with a blast of power will help initiate your turn.
Of course you realize that the prop is BEHIND the rudder on the CD25 so until the boat is actually moving through the water, you wont have much steerage.
After you resolve all of these 'drawbacks' in your mind, you can begin rejoicing in the fact that she tracks extremely well compared to a fin keel, goes through chop to shame other boats and will take most of what you can dish out.
Have fun.
- henry
If you have then simply disregard this line of questioning. If not. . . .
There is a pretty extreme difference in light air steerage between a cd25 (or any similar full keel vessel) and any of the more 'modern' hull designs. I teach on J-24s and have chartered on a number of Beneteaus. The Cape Dory is a different beast and will turn much more slowly that those fin-keels when the water speed over the rudder is slow. I also find that she very much dislikes reverse. That all being said, I am able to get her around pretty nicely in light air with some patience. It does help to have a motor that pivots a little in the well. I have a Tohatsu (nissan) 8hp long shaft and I can turn it a little bit. I find that a small amount of turning combined with a blast of power will help initiate your turn.
Of course you realize that the prop is BEHIND the rudder on the CD25 so until the boat is actually moving through the water, you wont have much steerage.
After you resolve all of these 'drawbacks' in your mind, you can begin rejoicing in the fact that she tracks extremely well compared to a fin keel, goes through chop to shame other boats and will take most of what you can dish out.
Have fun.
- henry