sailing without an engine

[Stan W.]

Transiting Woods Hole under sail is no big deal going West to East in the usual SW wind. Out of necessity, I once did it from East to West. Not an experience I would care to repeat as it requires beating down "the Straight." Needless to say, I was not too popular with the Al Czervik types that day.

[shavdog]

I bought a typhoon weekender last fall without an engine...I didnt want to mess around with gasoline spills and hassles so I bought a minnkota electric trolling motor with a long shaft and plan on buying a 27series deep charge battery this spring...the boat is tied up to our dock and the motor will only be used when necessary...

[Dixon Hemphill]

There are some very interesting comments regarding this topic. I must agree with Ken Coit's comment that you keep your engine for a sailing season to determine if you DO need that engine. In an emergency it sure would be nice to have that propulsion available.

If you go through the season without once using the engine I would certainly call that "Going Green". I do admire your attempt to help keep our planet healthy.

[j2sailor]

Attempting to sail against a current can be quite dangerous if speed over ground is less than current speed. The passage through Wood's Hole was made in an engineless Typhoon. The predominant southwesterly was light that day, so sailing against 4 knots of foul current was not possible.

My fault -I didn't check the Eldridge's before casting off. So we paid for my blunder by sitting off the cut. We punched through when it slacked below a knot or so. As soon as we made the other side, the Man pulled the switch and the wind died to a zephyr.

We lashed a line to our punt and towed the little Ty in to Martha's Vinyard, arriving just after sunset.
Best - J

[winthrop fisher]

do it,

its fun,

thats the way to go....

but, a few years of sailing in not that much time on the water.....

but, what happens when a storm comes up and you don't know what to do, that motor will get you out of trouble, maybe or not....

i have been sailing sense i was four or five years old, i am fifty now and have sailed half the world and crossed the atlantic ocean four times around trip and up and down the west and east coast and the gulf states.....

get all the sailing in you can before removing the motor and when you can sail in the dark alone....

then you are ready to remove the motor all together,

it sounds strange to most of you,

and thats fine,

but thats true,

the way i teach allot of people on this site and many more thru the years and allot of them are pros now....

and they are all sailing waters all around the world....

people die out at sea from lack of experience....

sorry, just my two cents worth.....

thats just the way i see it....

winthrop

[drysuit2]

My two cents. I sail a 26 with out using my engine most of the time. I am just more comfortable under sail, than engine. But I wouldn’t trash the diesel. I think that maintaining the older engine is better than adding it to some landfill. If you pull the engine, you’re going to have to replace that weight with some other ballast any way. You could put a bank of heavy batteries and an electric motor down there. But then how to you recharge them? Solar; wind; shore power? Your engine is the simplest. I think the biodiesel suggestion is a great idea. And it supports the resale value of your boat.

As far as getting around with out “using” your engine… Sail from a mooring if you can. When the wind is blowing you can get your boat just about anywhere. Learn how to backwind your sails, and sail backwards. It will get you out of tight spots. Also I keep a small, light Danforth anchor in my lazarette. It is light enough that I can toss it about 10 or 20 feet. I use it to kedge myself in tight quarters, or if I run aground. When I am forced to dock to windward, I use it to ease myself into the dock. I have never considered oarlocks on Segue; she has too much freeboard, but you can make headway with a canoe paddle in NO WIND. I don’t know; maybe that will work with a 22?

In the winter, My slip is literally up a creek: so there are times when I have no choice but to use my engine, or not go sailing. And while I wouldn’t consider my engine reliable, this is one of the times I am grateful for its presence.

In the summer, I use a solar panel to keep my batteries topped off. But on those rare occasions I “have” to run the engine in order to top off my charge; I do it before I leave the mooring. That way I don’t have to let that noise ruin my high at the end of my sail. If you’re not running your engine often; then your batteries will die. So I carry a spare handheld VHF, and a couple of sets of those glow sticks. They come in green, red, and white. They make great running lights, or an anchor light. Plus I tie one to my pick up buoy before I go out for an evening sail… Makes it easy to find my mooring in a crowded field.

I hope I didn’t repeat myself too much.

[Run Aground Again]

Dear Cape Dory Board folks,

Thanks for the useful and thoughtful replies. It seems like there is much collective wisdom among the folks of this discussion board and your thoughts are much appreciated.

Sincerely,
- john

- the green sailor who promises not to pull the diesel engine out of his CD22D just yet....

[Bluenose]

This is my first post and I know that this is a pretty old topic but I thought but I would add a bit of additional information in case anyone else has similar interests.

First off, I think that there are many different and enjoyable boating choices available to all of us and I am deffinately not trying to say my choice is best, safest or the only way. It is just my choice.

Here are a few posts from my blog with some information that I have gathered about sailing engineless.

The first is some of my reasons for sailing engineless and the resources that have really helped me, and others, get there.

Engineless Sailing & Knockabout Sloops

I have also summarized my current thinking about rowing and with my oar setup for my new to me boat.

Oars & Oar Locks

And these two posts are views from a couple of old timers (Eric Hiscock & Arthur Beiser) about sailing performance.

The Auxiliary Engine - Eric Hiscock

Sailing Performance

Anyway I thought I would post this information as a source of reference in case anyone in the future is interested.

As you can see from my blog and posts, I don't have a Cape Dory. But I have always really like them. The Typhoon was the runner up for my last boat, my Bluenose Sloop won out, and one of my good friend has one he is fixing up. I think they are very sweet. I have also been serious interested in a CD 26. But in the end I went in a different direction. But I can really appreciate the quality of these boats.

Cheers, Bill

[GLutzow]

I owned a Typhoon Weekender for over 25 years and now own a CD25. The Weekender never had a motor hung on its stern and I have yet to use the outboard engine on my CD 25. Both ships are very predictable craft and are responsive to the helm. The fact that both have a tiller rather than wheel steering also helps.

The first few times that you sail engineless will be somewhat tense but as you get the feel for your craft it will become second nature.

I have, due to circumstances that I don't want to discuss, sailed in some fairly foul weather in both boats and haven't felt the need for an engine. Both boats heave to very well and once that is done settle down nicely to the point where you can tie off the tiller and go below for a well deserved cup of coffee/tea and a chance to rest for a bit while the weather blows itself out.

Try it, and good sailing.

[Neil Gordon]

I'd be wary of making a decision on an engine based on what world cruisers do on their curcumnavigations if my sailing was primarily day sailing and coastal cruising.

To me, there are two issues ... safety and convenience.

Safety: If you're careful where you sail staying safe isn't a big issue. Stay off lee shores, stay out of shipping lanes, etc., etc. A sailboat can usually get/stay out of trouble either by sailing away from the problem, heaving to or anchoring.

Convenience: (See "Safety" above) I'd avoid areas with big ship channel, especially where they are channel restricted. Also, places like the Cape Cod Canal require a motorized transit so that might be limiting. There are days (nights) I'd be anchored out because of light air, so local prevailing winds and conditions are a big factor. Currents don't always take you where you want to go and/or keep you out of trouble. (It's not the danger, it's the inconvenience of navigating around the danger.)

If you have predictible winds and depending on where and how you want to sail (day or cruise), you can keep yourself safe. Just weigh the convenience factor based on how you use your boat.

[Joe Myerson]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for reopening this thread.

Because my mooring is in a salt pond with a very twisty channel (I ran aground again Friday, luckily on a rising tide), I prefer using my motor to get in and out of the mooring area--but plenty of my neighbors have smaller, engineless boats.

However, here's a fascinating link to a Pearson Ariel owner, who fashioned a rowing rig for his Alberg-designed boat. He made some oarlock holders from PVC pipe: they slip over his winches.

There's no reason why this wouldn't also work for Cape Dories:

http://www.solopublications.com/sailario.htm

--Joe

[Sethrkallman]

I sailed as a kid on a NY 32 in long island sound. had a gas engine that rarely worked for more than a minute or two. we sailed it on and off the mooring, docks etc. Sailed in the pacific years ago, no serviceable enigne. and too big to heave over the side.
Since then I have spent some time on a friends Cabo rico 38 in the Bahmamas. brandy spandy new diesel and what a joy. we did not use it much, but it is a nice to have it when needed, like getting through a pass in daylight, beating a storm off the banks , ok almost beating a storm off the banks. those experiences convinced me to put a operational engine in my 27.

you do not need to use it until abloslutly necessay and then it will be a blessing
Seth.

[Troy Scott]

John,

I sailed a CD22 without an engine and loved it. I bought the boat new in about 1982. The outboard was at first unreliable, and shortly after I got it straightened out it was stolen. But in the meantime I had learned that I could do without the engine, so I didn't replace the stolen outboard. The boat certainly looked a lot nicer without that ugly outboard. I'm sure you can sail the boat without an engine, and I'm sure it would be rewarding for you. HOWEVER, the CD22D is a rare boat, and far more valuable with the diesel than without it. It would seem almost WRONG to remove the engine from such a rare work of art. If you don't want an engine, why don't you swap that jewel for a regular CD22 or a CD25? You should end up with a chunk of change that would pay for some sails, which you're definitely going to need! You will need an assymetric spinnaker, a drifter, a 150, a jib and a really good, maybe fully battened main.

Good luck with your boat and have fun!

[Bluenose]

I owned a Typhoon Weekender for over 25 years and now own a CD25. The Weekender never had a motor hung on its stern and I have yet to use the outboard engine on my CD 25. Both ships are very predictable craft and are responsive to the helm. The fact that both have a tiller rather than wheel steering also helps.

The first few times that you sail engineless will be somewhat tense but as you get the feel for your craft it will become second nature.

I have, due to circumstances that I don't want to discuss, sailed in some fairly foul weather in both boats and haven't felt the need for an engine. Both boats heave to very well and once that is done settle down nicely to the point where you can tie off the tiller and go below for a well deserved cup of coffee/tea and a chance to rest for a bit while the weather blows itself out.

Try it, and good sailing.

I sailed a CD22 without an engine and loved it. I bought the boat new in about 1982. The outboard was at first unreliable, and shortly after I got it straightened out it was stolen. But in the meantime I had learned that I could do without the engine, so I didn't replace the stolen outboard. The boat certainly looked a lot nicer without that ugly outboard. I'm sure you can sail the boat without an engine, and I'm sure it would be rewarding for you. HOWEVER, the CD22D is a rare boat, and far more valuable with the diesel than without it. It would seem almost WRONG to remove the engine from such a rare work of art. If you don't want an engine, why don't you swap that jewel for a regular CD22 or a CD25? You should end up with a chunk of change that would pay for some sails, which you're definitely going to need! You will need an assymetric spinnaker, a drifter, a 150, a jib and a really good, maybe fully battened main.

GLutzow & John,

Thanks so much for posting your engineless experiences. I always find it encouraging to read stories like these. In our schedule driven society they seem to happen less and less frequently. I also completely agree with your assessment on needing good light air sails.

Cheers, Bill

[Jack Carr]

I've been sailing my CD22DA for over 20 years now and I hate to turn on the Yanmar. I may still have some of the original fuel in the tank (exageration). My prior boat was a gaff rigged Nova Scotian fishing boat with seating for two sets of 90 inch sweeps and with a willing crew we looked like vikings.

So I like the idea of of oars on a sailboat. I have a set on my CD22D for emergencies and I have tried them on occasion. Frankly, I think in typical sea conditions they would be better used to fend the boat off bad things.

I can remember a few conditions when I had to turn on the engine and it saved me from a very bad day, indeed. My recommendation is keep the diesel and take satisfaction in how few times you really have to turn it on. Fair winds.