I've just finished installation of a number of new electronics aboard milagro my 82 30'cd cutter. the new equipment includes 1. standard intrepid vhf radio/cabin with ram mike in cockpit. makes nice intercom system as well 2. raystar114 dgps/stern mount. 3. st60 raytheon wind instrument this is mounted on bulkhead (vane on masttop)port side of companion way where autohelm 4000+ was located but now on pedastal pod at wheel. 4. raython RL72RC radar./chartplotter combo in cabin, with its cousin theRL70 via high speed bus (split screen) mounted on pod at wheel. this is very cool as you can access both radar and chartplotter separatly or split screen (each showing) on each display. below and at the wheel. 5. 18" raytheon 2kw radome mounted forward on mast just below spreaders.
whew! so now I'am still reeling from the cost of all this, birthdays and holidays for the next several years.
Now I may have put the cart before the horse, as my batterys and alternatorjust aren't up to the new loads. with all the new stuff and the water pump, running lights, cabin lights, bilge pump. after several times of going over the realistic use of all the above in amp. hours per 24 hr. period. I'am still arriving at around 160 amps. per 24 hr. period. note these are estimations only. I have yet to get the boat out there for any extended cruise.
my alternator is the sev. marchal 35 amp. out put on the volvo md7a. after much reading an d asking questions at various marine outlets (I think they may be rolling their eyes when they see me coming now)a draw at 160 amps. I need a house bank of at least 300-320amps. and the alternator at 25%= around 75-80 amps. to bring them back to a semi full charge within a reasonable length of time,
right now the 4 way battery switch for the two existing batterys runs everything on every setting except off. this will change as i separate the two banks. two batterys for house, one battery for start only. so all of that will be changed to bring the system up to par with the new demands. the actual way to do this is still in the mystery stage.
I think what I will do with the batterys because of cramped space is run two 6volt in a series to match 12 volt.system and higher amp hrs. of each or two 12 volt batterys in parallel fashion to keep volts at 12 but increase the amps x2.
charging both banks is a whole other question. smart charger? battery combiner or separator? zap stop on alternator for surge protection.
so I'am hoping any of you folks out there who have had to upgrade your electrical system may have some suggestions for me.
many thanks in advance Ben
btlandscapers@imagina.com
battery loads/banks/charging
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Jeff Barnes
Re: battery loads/banks/charging
</LI>
Ben:
A couple of years ago,I updated most of the electrical work on my CD30, which I have since sold and purchased a CD36 "Jazman". On the CD30 I also made electronic upgrades similar to yours, including a 150W single-side band radio. First, I rather doubt you will approach 160 A-h per 24 hours. I suppose, if you were to run them all, ikncluding the autopilot for 24 hours, you might come close to your 160 estimate, but I doubt it, unless you have electric refrigeration. Calculate the realistic use of your lights, pumps and instrumentation in terms of hours/dayXcurrent (in amps).
Notwithstanding the above, I highly recommend upgrade the original charging system and batteries. Your current alternator is inadequate and does not use an appropriatye voiltage regulator. For your boat, I suggest a Balmar 70 amp (or equivalent) and either a Balmar or Heart 3 stage external regulator. Both will porovide efficient charging when teh batteries are low, and mainatain apppropriate float voltages when they are charged. This combo will run around $500. If you recalculate your A-h requirements, I thinkl you'll find 2 group 27 batteries (for house use) to be sufficient (100 A-h each). A group 24 will suffice for starting. More than these becomes a space , and more importantly a weight issue for the CD30.
If you need more info on combining batteries, switch vs. no switch and wiring the regulator, let me know (jbarnes@oxbio.com).I have refitted 3 CDs over the past 6 years.
Regards,
Jeff
Ben:
A couple of years ago,I updated most of the electrical work on my CD30, which I have since sold and purchased a CD36 "Jazman". On the CD30 I also made electronic upgrades similar to yours, including a 150W single-side band radio. First, I rather doubt you will approach 160 A-h per 24 hours. I suppose, if you were to run them all, ikncluding the autopilot for 24 hours, you might come close to your 160 estimate, but I doubt it, unless you have electric refrigeration. Calculate the realistic use of your lights, pumps and instrumentation in terms of hours/dayXcurrent (in amps).
Notwithstanding the above, I highly recommend upgrade the original charging system and batteries. Your current alternator is inadequate and does not use an appropriatye voiltage regulator. For your boat, I suggest a Balmar 70 amp (or equivalent) and either a Balmar or Heart 3 stage external regulator. Both will porovide efficient charging when teh batteries are low, and mainatain apppropriate float voltages when they are charged. This combo will run around $500. If you recalculate your A-h requirements, I thinkl you'll find 2 group 27 batteries (for house use) to be sufficient (100 A-h each). A group 24 will suffice for starting. More than these becomes a space , and more importantly a weight issue for the CD30.
If you need more info on combining batteries, switch vs. no switch and wiring the regulator, let me know (jbarnes@oxbio.com).I have refitted 3 CDs over the past 6 years.
Regards,
Jeff
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ben t.
Re: battery loads/banks/charging
</LI>
the old alternator is definitely out and used as back up spare on board. looking at the balmar 77amp. dual output. ( is output same for each or is it just one half of total?) 77or38.5. with the balmar max charge regulator which handles dual output. one for each bank.
the breakers for electronics running lights, cabin lights wired to house bank. bilge pump direct hookup to house with fuse link.
starter on isolated bank only with its own switch.
now the alternator I'am not sure of how to go about that as batterys are separated but charged togeather through the back door so to speak. your thoughts greatly appreciated on how to actually hook all this togeather for first time out.
many thanks, ben thomas
btlandscapers@imagina.com
Jeff, thanks for the reply! after a lot of circular thought the past week and reading your suggestions. considering weight and space I'am going to use two 12v. group 30s for house bank. i have the space/shelf for them already in starboard lazerette, start battery needs new shelf and straps just aft and outboard of house bank. keeping cable runs short. I still may throw out 4way battery switch as I'am not sure by turning from bat #2 house. to # 1 for starter that i have to turn off electronics then turn them back on. so i may just use two independent on/off switchs one for each bank with third switch to combine batterys if needed.Ben:
A couple of years ago,I updated most of the electrical work on my CD30, which I have since sold and purchased a CD36 "Jazman". On the CD30 I also made electronic upgrades similar to yours, including a 150W single-side band radio. First, I rather doubt you will approach 160 A-h per 24 hours. I suppose, if you were to run them all, ikncluding the autopilot for 24 hours, you might come close to your 160 estimate, but I doubt it, unless you have electric refrigeration. Calculate the realistic use of your lights, pumps and instrumentation in terms of hours/dayXcurrent (in amps).
Notwithstanding the above, I highly recommend upgrade the original charging system and batteries. Your current alternator is inadequate and does not use an appropriatye voiltage regulator. For your boat, I suggest a Balmar 70 amp (or equivalent) and either a Balmar or Heart 3 stage external regulator. Both will porovide efficient charging when teh batteries are low, and mainatain apppropriate float voltages when they are charged. This combo will run around $500. If you recalculate your A-h requirements, I thinkl you'll find 2 group 27 batteries (for house use) to be sufficient (100 A-h each). A group 24 will suffice for starting. More than these becomes a space , and more importantly a weight issue for the CD30.
If you need more info on combining batteries, switch vs. no switch and wiring the regulator, let me know (jbarnes@oxbio.com).I have refitted 3 CDs over the past 6 years.
Regards,
Jeff
the old alternator is definitely out and used as back up spare on board. looking at the balmar 77amp. dual output. ( is output same for each or is it just one half of total?) 77or38.5. with the balmar max charge regulator which handles dual output. one for each bank.
the breakers for electronics running lights, cabin lights wired to house bank. bilge pump direct hookup to house with fuse link.
starter on isolated bank only with its own switch.
now the alternator I'am not sure of how to go about that as batterys are separated but charged togeather through the back door so to speak. your thoughts greatly appreciated on how to actually hook all this togeather for first time out.
many thanks, ben thomas
btlandscapers@imagina.com
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Jeff Barens
Re: battery loads/banks/charging
</LI>
Ben:
Here are some thoughts regarding your set-up whcih might be helpful. As a preface, you should understand that there are numerous opinions on how battery/charger/regulator/etc. can be configured. And, believe it not, there is actually engineering justification for all of them. My thoughts stem from a degree in electrical engineering and many years of CD cruising and retrofitting, but remember it is only an opinion.
I am not a proponent of battery switches (excepth the ON/OFF type). The ability to combine/isolte batteries can create more harm and grief than benefit. To that end,here is what I would suggest given your proposed battery set-up.
1. Hook your 2 12V group 30s in parallel without a switch. Thus they will act as a single large capacity house bank. The advantage of this is that you don't have to carefully monitor the usage of each one and then be concerend about when to manually swith from one to the other. In addition, for a given A-h demand, you are only discharging each battery 1/2 as much. (eg. discharge the combined set-up 25% versus 50% for each battery). This will keep your batteries happier and minimize the risk of a greater than 50% discharge situation. Use heavy cables to parallel the batteries.
2. Given the above configuration, you do not need a dual output alternator. A single output alternator connected to a diode isoltaion block will suffice. One side of the block for you house bank (2 group 30s), and the other side of the diode block to your engine starting battery.
3. Regulation. The primary purpose of a multi-stage regulator is to effectively cgarge and maintain your house bank. The engine battery never discharges to the point of requiring anything but a low current float to mainatin it. Therefore, a single 3 stage regulator will suffice. The sense voltage for the regulator (this is the feedback to the regulator and alternator whcih controls the charging current) should be connected directly to the positive terminal of the house bank due to the 0.7V voltage drop across the isolation block. Your engine battery will charge with whatever voltage the house bank is getting.
This set up works well for me. No 1/2Both/Off switches to be concerned with, and efficient charging of the house bank. Although not required, I would recommend a Link 10 to monitor the status of your house bank. It will display current draw from your house bank as well as cummulative amp-hours used. Very useful for knowing when to recharge.
Regards,
Jeff
Ben:
Here are some thoughts regarding your set-up whcih might be helpful. As a preface, you should understand that there are numerous opinions on how battery/charger/regulator/etc. can be configured. And, believe it not, there is actually engineering justification for all of them. My thoughts stem from a degree in electrical engineering and many years of CD cruising and retrofitting, but remember it is only an opinion.
I am not a proponent of battery switches (excepth the ON/OFF type). The ability to combine/isolte batteries can create more harm and grief than benefit. To that end,here is what I would suggest given your proposed battery set-up.
1. Hook your 2 12V group 30s in parallel without a switch. Thus they will act as a single large capacity house bank. The advantage of this is that you don't have to carefully monitor the usage of each one and then be concerend about when to manually swith from one to the other. In addition, for a given A-h demand, you are only discharging each battery 1/2 as much. (eg. discharge the combined set-up 25% versus 50% for each battery). This will keep your batteries happier and minimize the risk of a greater than 50% discharge situation. Use heavy cables to parallel the batteries.
2. Given the above configuration, you do not need a dual output alternator. A single output alternator connected to a diode isoltaion block will suffice. One side of the block for you house bank (2 group 30s), and the other side of the diode block to your engine starting battery.
3. Regulation. The primary purpose of a multi-stage regulator is to effectively cgarge and maintain your house bank. The engine battery never discharges to the point of requiring anything but a low current float to mainatin it. Therefore, a single 3 stage regulator will suffice. The sense voltage for the regulator (this is the feedback to the regulator and alternator whcih controls the charging current) should be connected directly to the positive terminal of the house bank due to the 0.7V voltage drop across the isolation block. Your engine battery will charge with whatever voltage the house bank is getting.
This set up works well for me. No 1/2Both/Off switches to be concerned with, and efficient charging of the house bank. Although not required, I would recommend a Link 10 to monitor the status of your house bank. It will display current draw from your house bank as well as cummulative amp-hours used. Very useful for knowing when to recharge.
Regards,
Jeff
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ben T.
Re: battery loads/banks/charging
Jeff, thanks for all the help with this project. indeed have added link 10 to instruments. thanks again BenBen:
Here are some thoughts regarding your set-up whcih might be helpful. As a preface, you should understand that there are numerous opinions on how battery/charger/regulator/etc. can be configured. And, believe it not, there is actually engineering justification for all of them. My thoughts stem from a degree in electrical engineering and many years of CD cruising and retrofitting, but remember it is only an opinion.
I am not a proponent of battery switches (excepth the ON/OFF type). The ability to combine/isolte batteries can create more harm and grief than benefit. To that end,here is what I would suggest given your proposed battery set-up.
1. Hook your 2 12V group 30s in parallel without a switch. Thus they will act as a single large capacity house bank. The advantage of this is that you don't have to carefully monitor the usage of each one and then be concerend about when to manually swith from one to the other. In addition, for a given A-h demand, you are only discharging each battery 1/2 as much. (eg. discharge the combined set-up 25% versus 50% for each battery). This will keep your batteries happier and minimize the risk of a greater than 50% discharge situation. Use heavy cables to parallel the batteries.
2. Given the above configuration, you do not need a dual output alternator. A single output alternator connected to a diode isoltaion block will suffice. One side of the block for you house bank (2 group 30s), and the other side of the diode block to your engine starting battery.
3. Regulation. The primary purpose of a multi-stage regulator is to effectively cgarge and maintain your house bank. The engine battery never discharges to the point of requiring anything but a low current float to mainatin it. Therefore, a single 3 stage regulator will suffice. The sense voltage for the regulator (this is the feedback to the regulator and alternator whcih controls the charging current) should be connected directly to the positive terminal of the house bank due to the 0.7V voltage drop across the isolation block. Your engine battery will charge with whatever voltage the house bank is getting.
This set up works well for me. No 1/2Both/Off switches to be concerned with, and efficient charging of the house bank. Although not required, I would recommend a Link 10 to monitor the status of your house bank. It will display current draw from your house bank as well as cummulative amp-hours used. Very useful for knowing when to recharge.
Regards,
Jeff
btlandscapers@imagina.com