Anchoring Question

[Neil Gordon]

Real long sprits might have a martingale configuration along with a dolphin striker, but not on a CD (that I'm aware of).

"Dolphin stiker" is a great term. We'd otherwise call it a "spreader" and it serves the same purpose.

[Russell]

Bowsprits which have whisker stays not only tend to be longer as pointed out, but they also tend to be of the spar type. As in they are round and narrow. CD bowsprits being flat and rather wide in addition to being short, have far more lateral strength and stiffness which makes the whisker stays entirely unnessisary.

[Neil Gordon]

CD bowsprits being flat and rather wide in addition to being short, have far more lateral strength and stiffness which makes the whisker stays entirely unnessisary.

Agreed, but we need to also take into consideration the stress on the attachment point (i.e., the bow). I suspect it's equally sufficient though.

[Joe CD MS 300]

You giys have me wondering if I have been operating under a misconception. I always thought that prohibition against letting the windlass take the strain of the rode related to the internal mechanics of the wndlass. If you left the chain or rope on the gypsy, as long as it was free spinning and cleated off, that was OK as the strain was taken up by the cleat and the only pressure on the windlass might be some downward pressure on the gypsy. Is that not correct? I have done this on numerious charter boats following the charter company's instruction.

I do this on Quest now initially but after I know the anchor has set, I'll take the chain (I have an all chain rode) off the gypsy and run it directly back to a cleat which is just along the end of the bowsprit from the roller. I then attached a nylon line / chain sunbber on the other cleat then slack up on the chain behing the snubber letting the snubber take the load.

The anchor is alway deployed and left on the bow roller. I never gave much thought but was believing that if a boat was designed and built with a bowroller on a bowsprit it was designed to take the loads, vertical or lateral. What other purpose would the roller serve? Just for dropping the hook and retreiving? I'm not crazy about the idea of slack chain banging against the hull. Think I should be taking the chain off the roller and leading it through a chock rather than leaving it on the roller?

I better get out some of the old beginner sailing books. You'd think that after 25+ years of sailing I'd know this by now.

Joe

[Russell]

The chain and rode can be left on the windlass, and left fed through the bow roller, no reason to take it off the roller/windlass. But the snubber should be attached and led through a chock to a cleat. The bow sprit was not designed to take the loads of a windy or rough day where your anchoring gear is put to the test. Think of it more as a storage/retreival platform. Anchor snubbers are the proper way, led through a bow chock to a clear, then with the rode/chain aft of the snubber attachment left slack, zero load is put on your windlass or bowsprit. Snubbers can and do chafe though, I make a new one about every 6 months (keep in mind I am on the hook 100% of the time), in bad storms I have gone through 2 snubbers in 1 day though. Good chafe gear for long term anchoring is important, as is a backup. A chain stopper installed in front of the windlass is a good failsafe (though if the snubber chafes your bowsprit will start taking loads, its still better then having your boat suddenly let out all its rode and subsequently hit other boats and who knows what else). I always attach two snubbers, a primary one and a backup in case the primary chafes and fails, in addition to the chain stopper. I use the Wichard chain hooks on my snubbers, they are spendy but they lock on rather then just being a plain hook which depends on the weight of the chain to keep it in the hook (I have had these slip off before).

[Joe CD MS 300]

Russel,

Thanks for the info. Did you ever see the ABI "chain grabber". I was thinking that it might be a good alternative to the standard chain hooks.



http://www.marinemanifold.com/wes/wes.741.aspx


Joe

[Russell]

Russel,

Thanks for the info. Did you ever see the ABI "chain grabber". I was thinking that it might be a good alternative to the standard chain hooks.



http://www.marinemanifold.com/wes/wes.741.aspx


Joe

Yeah, the ABI chain hook is good if you prefer a bridle. Generally unless its really windy I just come over to one side. People complain that you sail around at anchor too much if you just go to one side, but I have watched dozens of boats at anchor in vairous wind speeds with various setups, I dont think it sails around signifigantly more. In constant wind conditions over 20 knots I will do a bridle arrangement though. But in day to day use, with that bowsprit in the way, a bridle is a real PITA to rig, one side works fine.

[Steve Laume]

The original CD bow roller drove me crazy. I added a big beefy Windline anchor roller to my bow sprint. I had to cut it out to fit around the forestay fitting so it is pretty close to center. This is a huge hunk of stainless steel with a roller and nice cheeks to keep the rode in place. I think I bolted it in five places with big fender washers to back up the bolts. I leave my anchor rode in the roller most of the time. If it is blowing snot then I lead it through a chock. The original set up was a mess. Most of the time the rode would slip off the roller and hang up in the pulpit weather at anchor or trying to retrieve. The Windline roller was one of the best modifications I ever made to the boat. the Spartan bronze jobbie was really pretty but very expensive and didn't look like it would spread the load nearly as well as the stainless Windline. I also use the keeper pin to clip my reacher tack to. I do want to make up some bridle lines. There was an article in This Old Boat about unlaying and then braiding three strand line so it would hold a rolling hitch better for anchor bridles. It seemed like a good idea and fun to make up. If I snap off my bow sprint you can all say I told ya so. For the time being I am feeling pretty comfy anchoring from the roller most of the time. That is a pretty hefty hunk of wood up there, Steve.

[Bob L]

About that rolling hitch: Do you just climb out on the sprit and tie onto the rode forward of the roller? Or will the knot pass over the roller, which means you could put the rolling hitch just forward of the windlass and then let it out?

Troy,

The knot usually will pass over the roller, sometimes with a little coaxing. And yes, you should tie the hitch forward of the windlass, aft of the roller.

Bob

[Russell]

If I snap off my bow sprint you can all say I told ya so. For the time being I am feeling pretty comfy anchoring from the roller most of the time. That is a pretty hefty hunk of wood up there, Steve.

Well, the previous owner of my CD36 did just that. Busted a huge chunk of the bowsprit right off due to not running it through chock. I bought the boat with a broken bowsprit, it is since repaired and stronger then ever (including windline anchor rollers). But I am anal about not letting that sprit take an anchoring load unless its just a "lunch stop".

[Steve Laume]

Are the dimensions of the CD-36 and Cd-30 bow sprints any different except for their length? I do use the cleats when it is blowing and or rocking much in the anchorage. If that bow sprint is sound to begin with it is pretty beefy. When the pull of the anchor is opposed by the forestay it is hard to imagine a failure. I will make up those snubbers to use when it starts to blow, Steve.

[Russell]

Are the dimensions of the CD-36 and Cd-30 bow sprints any different except for their length? I do use the cleats when it is blowing and or rocking much in the anchorage. If that bow sprint is sound to begin with it is pretty beefy. When the pull of the anchor is opposed by the forestay it is hard to imagine a failure. I will make up those snubbers to use when it starts to blow, Steve.

I cant say about dimensional differences, other then the CD36 is certainly longer and wider, not sure about thickness though. All 36 bowsprits are made of teak as well as far as I know (some of the 30s are mahogony arnt they?). The break was right at the bond between the laminated peices. The forestay/bobstay didnt budge, the bowsprit broke to starboard of the stay fittings (anchor was set on the starboard roller). Basicly imagine your bowsprit broke entirely to starboard of the stay fitting and forward of the bow, the forward starboard quarter of the sprit was gone and jagged when I bought the boat.

There is going to be a lot of factors at work here. For instance if you are sitting on a rather large scope, like 7:1, the downward force on the bowsprit will be signifigantly less then when anchored at 3:1. If the anchorage has signifigant chop/fetch to cause hobby horsing while the rode/chain is taught due to gale force winds your would be at more risk as well.

I suspect it takes a lot of unfortunate factors at play to truely risk breaking the bowsprit a reality, but it is indeed possible and situations do arise, I just keep in the habit of the snubber, even if not always nessisary, its good seamanship.

[Steve Laume]

Russel, the sprint on my boat is teak. I can't help but think the original bow roller design would have a great deal to do with the chances of breaking a bow sprint. If the rode pulls to the side at all, which it will, then there is a tremendous amount of stress on the glue joints of the laminate. I always row, so I tend to go to the shallow margins of an anchorage where I can put out lots of scope. Much of the pull is more forward than down. I also have a riding sail to help keep down the searching. Half inch nylon rode has lots of stretch to ease the shock. I also tend to frequent sheltered anchorages. Whenever the weather kicks up I move the rode into the chock. All that said you have opened my eyes to the fact that I may be skating on thin ice at times and I should make up a bridle to anchor properly. Thanks, Steve.

[bottomscraper]

On Mahalo our primary anchor is on all chain. We have an Ideal windlass. There is a bronze chain stopper between the roller and the windlass. We use a Wichard "Chain Grip" for our snubber. The snubber get run through the chock to one of the deck cleats. The Wichard "Chain Grip" is similar to a plain hook but it has a spring loaded pin that keeps the hook from falling off. We used a plain hook before but at least twice it became unhooked. So far the "Chain Grip" has worked fine.

This link shows the "Chain Grip", scroll down, its on the 3rd page. They have 3 models depending on chain size. This site had the best pictures but you can get them from other sources.

http://www.americanriggingsupply.com/Wi ... 0Hooks.pdf

[img]http://www.nautaonline.es/osc/images/im ... FL2984.jpg[/img]

[Russell]

Rich, that is the same hook I use. Far better then the typical chain hook.