Don't trust the dealers! It is still "buyer's beware" on boats!
I was in the processing of purchasing a CD 25D from Voyager Yachts in Anacortes and had it surveyed. The engine, though it ran fine, needed over$1300.00 worth of work due to corrosion, transmission leaking, etc. The boat, though in fair condition, had three thru-hulls that were frozen. The dealer said it had a real heater. Of course it did not work! Believe me, it was the best $300 I have ever spent!
When I presented my proposal for all the fix-its to the dealer to present to the seller, the owner's answer was-I will fix the problems myself. Now, I would like to know how he is going to repair the stuffing box, and three thru-hulls without pulling the boat! This boat hasn't been worked on since 1983 as far as I could tell. There were even hornet nests in the main sail.
Do yourself a favor! Spend the money for a survey-both engine and hull. The best money you will ever spend.
Ken Cave
Still Looking!
bcave@whidbey.net
Before you buy-get a survey!!
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Ryan Turner
And don't use the surveyor recommended by the broker
</LI>
I made the mistake of using the surveyor recommended by the broker and it was an expensive one. Fortunately not too expensive but there definately were things missed by the surveyor that should have been caught.
Ryan Turner
rdtec@aol.com
I made the mistake of using the surveyor recommended by the broker and it was an expensive one. Fortunately not too expensive but there definately were things missed by the surveyor that should have been caught.
Ryan Turner
rdtec@aol.com
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L. Robinson
Re: Before you buy-get a survey!!
</LI>
I second Ryan's thoughts. We bought our CD 33 and had the broker recommend an "excellent surveyor" -- former service manager of XYZ Yachts. This excellent surveyor failed to notice that our alternator was fried (due to the boat having recently been hit by lightning), one through-hull fitting had damaged fibreglass -- superheated by the lightning's journey to ground, the engine had no compression (we ultimately replaced the engine), and the list goes on! By the way, he did tell us that we probably had hull blisters (which we were sure were just paint blisters in the many coats of antifouling and which turned out to be so when we stripped the bottom), and that we didn't need to have that silly oil test as the engine was working just fine. I would further RECOMMEND STRONGLY having a surveyor pass a moisture meter on your hull and deck. Providing that the surveyor is skillful in the use of the meter this can avoid a LOT of headaches later. Our surveyor tapped here and there on the deck and somehow missed that 2 foot by one foot delaminated spot on the foredeck ... hmmm...
I second Ryan's thoughts. We bought our CD 33 and had the broker recommend an "excellent surveyor" -- former service manager of XYZ Yachts. This excellent surveyor failed to notice that our alternator was fried (due to the boat having recently been hit by lightning), one through-hull fitting had damaged fibreglass -- superheated by the lightning's journey to ground, the engine had no compression (we ultimately replaced the engine), and the list goes on! By the way, he did tell us that we probably had hull blisters (which we were sure were just paint blisters in the many coats of antifouling and which turned out to be so when we stripped the bottom), and that we didn't need to have that silly oil test as the engine was working just fine. I would further RECOMMEND STRONGLY having a surveyor pass a moisture meter on your hull and deck. Providing that the surveyor is skillful in the use of the meter this can avoid a LOT of headaches later. Our surveyor tapped here and there on the deck and somehow missed that 2 foot by one foot delaminated spot on the foredeck ... hmmm...
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Chris Reinke - CD330 Inni
Re: And don't use the surveyor recommended by the broker
</LI>
Ryan - You make a very good point. When I was purchasing my CD330 I was unfamiliar with the area and wanted to avoid the brokers recommendations. I contacted Boat /US, who I was using for financing, and they provided me with a list of recommended surveyors in the area. The broker had mentioned one particular surveyor who he suggested I stay away from. I shall call him "Surveyor Bob". The broker, who I shall call "Broker SOB" indicated that that Surveyor Bob had a reputation for writing up every little detail and often caused problems for the buyer in securing financing. When I received the Boat / US contact recommendations I found Surveyor Bob’s name at the top of the list and decided that I am better off safe and without financing, then sorry with a problem boat.
I could not have been happier with the quality and level of detail which Surveyor Bob demonstrated. Broker SOB was a bit put out with the fact that Surveyor Bob tied up his travel lift for 4 hours while he examined the hull and fittings. When I received the survey it was prepared in a very professional manner and fortunately the items mentioned were rather insignificant. The cost for Surveyor Bob was a bit more than the other surveyors listed by Boat /US, but I feel it was well worth the money. Actually, I was able to use the additional items he discovered to negotiate a further reduction in the sale price which was greater than the cost of the survey.
Ryan - You make a very good point. When I was purchasing my CD330 I was unfamiliar with the area and wanted to avoid the brokers recommendations. I contacted Boat /US, who I was using for financing, and they provided me with a list of recommended surveyors in the area. The broker had mentioned one particular surveyor who he suggested I stay away from. I shall call him "Surveyor Bob". The broker, who I shall call "Broker SOB" indicated that that Surveyor Bob had a reputation for writing up every little detail and often caused problems for the buyer in securing financing. When I received the Boat / US contact recommendations I found Surveyor Bob’s name at the top of the list and decided that I am better off safe and without financing, then sorry with a problem boat.
I could not have been happier with the quality and level of detail which Surveyor Bob demonstrated. Broker SOB was a bit put out with the fact that Surveyor Bob tied up his travel lift for 4 hours while he examined the hull and fittings. When I received the survey it was prepared in a very professional manner and fortunately the items mentioned were rather insignificant. The cost for Surveyor Bob was a bit more than the other surveyors listed by Boat /US, but I feel it was well worth the money. Actually, I was able to use the additional items he discovered to negotiate a further reduction in the sale price which was greater than the cost of the survey.
I made the mistake of using the surveyor recommended by the broker and it was an expensive one. Fortunately not too expensive but there definately were things missed by the surveyor that should have been caught.
Ryan Turner
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M. R. Bober
Surveyors
</LI>
Never ask a barber if you need a haircut. A surveyor is supposed to be working in the interest of his/her(?) client. Human nature sometimes clouds this arrangement when a referral is provided by a broker who could provide additional referrals to the surveyor. I've had good and bad experiences with surveys, and the problem isn't just who recommended the surveyor. The quality of the survey is directly related to the qualifications of the surveyor. Sometimes I think that anyone who has ever seen a boat can call himself a surveyor. If you are in need of a survey and away from familiar surrounds, you may wish to contact one of the professional associations. It couldn't hurt.
There are a few associations that are a bit more fussy about who they let in. I have had some success with the National Association of Marine Surveyors (NAMS phone# 1.800.822.NAMS)
Also see the letter to the Editor in Practcal Sailor (last isssue, two back??) regarding liability of the surveyor.
Hope this provided some light with the heat.
Mitchell Bober
RESPITE
CD330
thebobers@erols.com
Never ask a barber if you need a haircut. A surveyor is supposed to be working in the interest of his/her(?) client. Human nature sometimes clouds this arrangement when a referral is provided by a broker who could provide additional referrals to the surveyor. I've had good and bad experiences with surveys, and the problem isn't just who recommended the surveyor. The quality of the survey is directly related to the qualifications of the surveyor. Sometimes I think that anyone who has ever seen a boat can call himself a surveyor. If you are in need of a survey and away from familiar surrounds, you may wish to contact one of the professional associations. It couldn't hurt.
There are a few associations that are a bit more fussy about who they let in. I have had some success with the National Association of Marine Surveyors (NAMS phone# 1.800.822.NAMS)
Also see the letter to the Editor in Practcal Sailor (last isssue, two back??) regarding liability of the surveyor.
Hope this provided some light with the heat.
Mitchell Bober
RESPITE
CD330
thebobers@erols.com