Replacing the Cabin Light Wiring in a CD36

[John Danicic]

Russell:

No corrosion here on Lake Superior but I do have to put up with very hard water 5 months of the year and very cold water for the rest.

I do admit, I am a corrosion virgin.....so far.... except on my 1988 Toyota Camry. Now that's corrosion! Of course, it gets better gas mileage as the steel turns to rust and falls off making for a lighter vehicle.

One suggestion with the light fixtures. You could take them to an auto chrome plating shop and see what they could do. They may be able to brass plate them after all the rough stuff is brushed off. A thought.


Sail on.

John Danicic

CD36 Mariah #124
Lake Superior - currently in a liquid state

[Boyd]

Hi All:

I was an early adopter of the Sensibulb technology. Mine are Gen 1 and find them completely satisfying. Good color, enough light, and the energy use is amazing. Since I converted all interior lights at one time I have not had the opportunity to try the new ones. I suggest you buy one and try it. If it works out then go for the whole boat load. Nav lights and anchor lights are a big draw also. There are great replacements available at DR. LED for those. I am now a totally LED lit boat.

I did an energy analysis several years ago after a weekend on the boat during which I was continuously struggling to keep the batteries charged. A cost benefit analysis showed that reducing my energy consumption was cheaper than adding the solar or wind systems to create more energy. DUH No new news here.

What I have done is change every light bulb to LED's, replaced my refrigeration system with a keel cooled type from Frigoboat, upgraded the refrigerator insulation, added a higher output alternator and 4 T-105's.

The result was cheaper than adding solar or wind generators and less invasive. I can now live on board 4 days without charging the batteries. I recently left the boat in a marina, when life got in the way of my trip, for a week, forgot to turn on the battery charger, and came back to cold food, and batteries that were still ok.

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

[Troy Scott]

Russell,

My original dome lights are ABI. They use one 18 watt incandescent 1142 style bulb. These days ABI makes this almost identical fixture. You can order it with two white zenon bulbs or one red and one white. This also happens to be the fixture that Sailor's Solutions modifies with their Sensibulbs for resale. Defender sells this product for $19.00. Check out:

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=182349

and

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=177477

They also have this one that is smaller than the CD original equipment:

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=177462

They have this small 10 watt reading light for $32

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=177687

Their larger, 20 watt reading light is a little more expensive at $42, but still not bad.

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=182470

I have bought one of each to help me decide what I want in my own boat. I can tell you that they look and feel very nice.

By the way, these are all easy to convert to LED later, and the cost isn't much different than buying the LED version to start with.

I hope this helps.

[Matt Cawthorne]

Troy,
No, I never did a major electrical project before. I gained some hands on experience while doing a motor boat deliver to San Juan PR about 15 years ago. That experience was related to trying to fix soldered bilge pump wiring while kneeling in water of increasing depth. I had lots of time to curse a poor wiring job as I stood between two roaring diesels through the night, filling buckets of water to be passed topside for disposal. The engine compartment deck was oily and the 8 foot waves were knocking that poor trawler all over the place. Given that I have a certain fear of getting entangled in moving machinery, my mouth was as dry as the Sahara. I have since given lots of thought to how I would wire a boat. If you ever have the desire to do so, start with a very detailed wiring diagram, complete with wire sizes, fuse sizes, wire color, wire gage and labels.

Matt

[Troy Scott]

Matt wrote: "If you ever have the desire to do so, start with a very detailed wiring diagram, complete with wire sizes, fuse sizes, wire color, wire gage and labels."

Matt,

I believe you're right. I have drawn wiring plans for a few other projects. I can do this, and I will. I'm not sure how far to go with the wiring replacement. There has to be a wise balance between total replacement and just tending to the typically troublesome areas. How to find that balance...., that is my quest.

I think probably it would be appropriate to replace all or most of the lighting circuitry. (Whether or not I actually WILL remains to be seen.) I have heard many stories about problems with the original lighting wiring. I do recognize that now, while the boat is pretty much opened up and a lot of trim-work is out, would be the time to replace wiring. In other words, now is probably my best chance.

WRT the wiring diagrams, I think the plan should be in layers to avoid confusion. The cabin lighting on one page, nav lighting circuits on another, etc.. I could do it on transparencies so I can see it all at once when I stack them. Any suggestions will be appreciated!

OK, Here's a big one: Has anybody replaced the original lightning grounding system? I mean the system of heavy wires that connect the chainplates, etc. to the plate on the side of the keel. These wires look worse than any of the others, and they are probably the most important for safety. Likewise the solid wires that connect the through-hulls to the grid look bad. These uninsulated solid wires seem somehow inappropriate. What is the general concensus with regard to these big wires? Is the system OK? Would some alternate plan be better?

Assuming some enterprising and determined individual (perfectionist type) wanted all new wiring, and managed to remove all the original wiring, how would this brave (crazy?) soul best route the new system? It looks to me like next to the hull-to-deck joint was originally chosen as a manufacturing expedient. Other wiring routes might be more logical for a wiring refit. Once again, I'm hoping someone will chime in with words of wisdom. It's for my friend, you know....., I'm not the crazy one.....

[Russell]

OK, Here's a big one: Has anybody replaced the original lightning grounding system? I mean the system of heavy wires that connect the chainplates, etc. to the plate on the side of the keel. These wires look worse than any of the others, and they are probably the most important for safety. Likewise the solid wires that connect the through-hulls to the grid look bad. These uninsulated solid wires seem somehow inappropriate. What is the general concensus with regard to these big wires? Is the system OK? Would some alternate plan be better?

While I have not seen your boat in particular, I would be suprised if the existing bonding wires were really in that bad of shape. Most of mine are pretty well coating in green, but its purely surface. These are thick heavy solid wires, just as you would want for such a job. Get a little vinager and clean them off, they will likely look brand new again if you need your faith restored. Personally, if I was to worry about anything, it would be the ring terminals that attach these wires to the thru hulls and keel plate, but not the wires themselves.

[Troy Scott]

Russell,

Is there something better than the ring terminals that should be retrofitted?

[Matt Cawthorne]

I am not an expert in this area, but I would guess that for lightning, corrosion on the surface of the wire could matter. Here is why. Static electricity travels on the surface of a part, not the interior. That is why you are safe in a car, not because of any insulation that the tires provide. If the surface is corroded, the conductivity is greatly reduced on the surface. It is the same for HF radios. Once the grounding strap is corroded, it becomes ineffective. Troy may have a good thought here. As far as my earlier statement that I replaced all of the wiring in my boat, it wasn't entirely true. The original lightning ground system is still in place.


As far as the original wiring goes, I have been led to believe that lightning does not like to take sharp turns. If that is true, the original wiring may not be ideal because it takes sharp turns in several places.

[Doug Gibson]

Based on my previous career as an electrical engineer, my understanding is that the purpose of the lightning grounding wires is to bond mast and other metal components on the boat to earth ground (sea water). In theory, this makes the mast of a boat no more attractive to a lightning bolt than the water itself. The grounding wire is not design to actually carry the discharge current from a lightning strike (1000's of amps). Based on accounts, if you do get hit by lightning, expect major eletrical damage and probably fusing of the ground wires (but hopefully not before the current decides to discharge through the fiberglass hull!).

Surface corrosion on a wire doesn't impact DC current carrying ability. At high frequency AC, skin effect does come into play, hence the impact to radio performance. To ensure effective DC grounding for lighning protection, nothing beats a good soldered terminal lug (versus only crimping).

[Matt Cawthorne]

The idea of making the mast tip equivalent to the water potential requires that the air surrounding the mast tip and the water surrounding the ground plates can handle the current to dissipate the clouds charge in the vicinity of the boat. In the seconds leading up to a lightning strike this can be a small amount relative to what the wires can handle, but a large amount for the air to handle without the ionization? that accompanies the lightning strike. I understand that this takes quite a large ground plate and some sort of fuzzy headed mast with lots of dissipating wires to spread the charge into a large volume of air.

[Troy Scott]

NOW I've done it. The old system of lighting wires is all gone, except for a few snippets left where they couldn't be removed without damage to the boat. I have successfully drilled new channels through the mish-mash between the ceiling and the deck, without getting into structure at all. I discovered that some of the wiring was in channels molded into the wood trim. In no case was I able to use the old wire to position a pull-rope. However, I have managed to get new pull-ropes into position everywhere. My project is to design and create a complete and inclusive wiring harness on a "loom". One of several major differences in my design and the original is that I will NOT have any connections under the hull to deck joint. Since I will be using LED lighting, the light circuit wires can be much smaller. I plan to run individual wires to every fixture in order to eliminate all those troublesome connections. I will get the main body of the new harness into position under the hull-to-deck joint, then pull the branches to their individual destinations using my pull ropes. I don't foresee any problems with this, but of course I won't really know until I'm into that. I don't see how it could be any more difficult to get the new harness in than it was to get the old stuff out! The old wiring was embedded, bonded and taped, and there were many soldered connections to hang up on whatever as I worried it out of there. But I and a friend prevailed. We filled a barrel with old, questionable wire, both DC and AC. I've left the heavy bonding wires for now, but I really don't like them. They are especially yucky down low in the bilge where they all go to the exterior plate. The POs allowed a lot of oil to stay down there. I have cleaned it all , but that wiring is still less than optimal. The wires are very stiff, corroded, and they have too many sharp corners. I think it would be pretty easy to replace them. The question is: replace them with what? Welding cable? Expensive tinned wire?

Now, with regard to new wire for lighting, etc., I'm not happy with the standard marine wire in the catalogs. I like the finely stranded and tinned wire, but the insulation seems inferior to me. It's certainly better than telephone wire insulation, but it seems inferior to the aviation grade wire I've used. I'm accustomed to "Tefzel" wire, which is like marine grade except it is insulated with tough, high temperature teflon. I can hold a hot soldering iron to the teflon momentarily with minimal damage. I can also pull the insulated wire around a sharp corner with no noticeable damage. This wire is available in many colors and sizes. I'm going to post some links here in hopes that some of you will check out the wire and let me know your thoughts.

http://www.steinair.com/wire.htm

https://www.gulf-coast-avionics.com/det ... _22759_16/

http://www.edmo.com/index.php?module=pr ... &catid=464