Replacing the Cabin Light Wiring in a CD36

[Troy Scott]

Folks,

The wiring for the cabin lights in my CD36 seems to consist of long parallel runs near the hull-to-deck joint with branches coming off these to power the individual fixtures. I'm not impressed with the wiring job. I would rather see better connections and tinned wire. But I'm beginning to realize that replacing portions of this wiring might be next to impossible. Apparently part of the branch lines was placed into position between sections of balsa before the side decks were bonded to the cabin ceiling. I'm guessing that this part of the circuit is (intentionally or not) mechanically "bonded" into the structure. I've given a few of these pieces a good tug to see if they would move, and so far they do not. It's entirely possible that this wiring would never cause a problem. However, I suspect it will. There is some corrosion evident already. Have any of you had experience with this? Has anyone successfully replaced the wire in these circuits?

I would like to think I could use the old wire as a "pull-rope" to pull new, teflon-coated, tinned wire into position, through the original "trenches" through the balsa. Thoughts?

[Ron M.]

Troy,
I have re-wired the entire boat. I agree much of the original wiring was shoddy. The only wires I could not get out went from the panel overhead to the head - so I retired them. I ran new replacements under the deck to the head area and installed a buss below the medicine cabinet, (port). I did the same on the starb. side, this eliminated all overhead wires. While at it I increased wire gauge to #12 in runs to each buss, from there #14 to each light fixture.
________
WEED BUBBLERS

[Troy Scott]

Ron,

Were sections of your wiring "embedded" as well? Were you able to get those sections out? Were you able to use the old wire to pull in the new in the same location? Or did you reroute those sections? I hate the idea of running any wiring where I have to install a cosmetic cover, so I really hope I can get new wire into the "channel" between the cabin ceiling and the side deck.

-

[Will Wheatley]

I found the same problem on my 25 when I rewired and as I recall a discussion from several years ago this seems to be the norm on CDs. The wires from the panel that run between the head liner and the coach roof are bonded to the structure at some point along the way. I did the same thing Ron did. I left the old wires in place and ran new wires.

My situation is a little different from Ron's and it may not be feasable on the 36 but I was able to take the wood trim from the sliding hatch off and pry the headliner down just enough to get the new wires up there. I also drilled two new holes in strategic places to assist in the effort. One new hole got an overhead dome light and the other got a teak plug.

Good Luck with the effort.

[Troy Scott]

Will, Ron, and All,

It IS different in the 36. I wish the light fixtures in question were located where there was a good alternative route for replacement wiring. The problem is with the fixtures in the main cabin under the side deck, over the settees. They are away from any cabinetry or woodwork that could otherwise serve as a hiding place for replacement wires. That part of the deck is solid. As I see it I have three choices:
A) Put off the problem, waiting until I'm older and less agile to replace the wires. They may last a very long time even though they are low-quality and beginning to corrode. I can see myself, 90 and arthritic, trying to maintain a sense of humor as I yank on ancient, crumbling wires....
B) Try to do this the way I hope it will work: Use the old wires as pull ropes for better replacements. This risks destroying the old but still functioning wiring (it's pretty well stuck) while failing to get the new wires into position. I would be disgusted if I were to "shoot myself in the foot."
C) I suppose I could consider relocating the lights to a place where new wires would be easy to hide. But the lights in question seem to be where they are needed....

Have any of you with similarly embedded wires managed to get new ones into the same space?
Should I just have a Margarita and quit worrying about this? There are, after all, bigger problems around: think Burma and China. I'm sick about all that, by the way....

Hopefully some of you can provide the ADVICE that will steer me in a new direction!

[Will Wheatley]

Unfortunately I think option B is the most likely to go bad if you try to use the old wires to pull the new through. You could try pulling the light fixture out and useing a fish tape to see where you can go with it. You may find a way to run wires from each fixture to somewhere where you can have a trunk line go to the panel. You may have to split the line just after the panel and run one wire down the port and starboard sides seperately. Play around with things and I'm sure you will find a way to make it work.

You may also try for some professional advise. I have found that many professionals are willing to part with a little knowledge without pay. You could even consider calling Robinhood in Maine to see if they have any advise.

[Ron M.]

Troy
I was unable to un-imbed the overhead wires,so I disconnected and cut them as I said.
If you can't find a route to your fixture consider surface mount channel made for various types of electronic wiring. Not as nice, but effective.
________
Og kush marijuana

[Troy Scott]

Will and Ron,
I will certainly call Robinhood and ask them what they recommend! I don't know why I haven't already. Thanks for reminding me of that possibility.
I've been studying the situation more today. Trying a fish tape to find a new route before destroying the old system is certainly a good idea. I will do that! If that works, I'll just abandon the old wiring and all will be well. However, if I can't find a new route I will then proceed to try using the old wires to pull in new ones. I haven't yet pulled really hard on the old stuck wires.... If I'm probably ultimately going to have to abandon them there's nothing to lose by trying. (Unless you guys think pulling on them might actually damage structure!) Now, If all THAT fails, I did realize today that I could make some teak molding exactly like the decorative "bands" that fit on the ceiling, and use it to cover the wiring if I have to make part of the run on the surface. I believe it would look OK if it is run parallel to the other decorative molding and is just short pieces from the cabinet fronts to the light fixtures. But that is my "last resort". Please don't stop coming up with suggestions, guys! This is really helpful.

[Jeff Barnes]

Troy,

While I have replaced most of the wiring on my 36, the wiring for the cabin lights I have left alone for many of the reasons already mentioned. Most all of the lighting wires are pretty well embedded in whatever. Take down one of the overhead dome lights and tug on the wires if you need convincing...they do not budge. All the other wiring (electric head, washdown pump, CNG, nav station, etc) has been pretty straight forward. My 36 is an '82 and I have had no problems with the wires for the lighting. Replace all the other stuff and mix a martini.

[Troy Scott]

Jeff,

Thanks for the wise words. I was really dreading that wiring job. I think I'll just use the wiring that's there. I can always do something about it when or IF there is ever a problem. I definitely have enough to do already.

Have you replaced your cabin lighting?

[Oswego John]

Will and Ron,
I will certainly call Robinhood and ask them what they recommend! I don't know why I haven't already. Please don't stop coming up with suggestions, guys! This is really helpful.

Troy,

I second the motion to call Robinhood and see what they have to say.

Someone once said that "Talk is cheap". In light ot that, let me mention some things that may, or may not, help you in your rewiring project. They have aided me from time to time.

When you try to pull an existing conductor out, using it as a "drag", Try to pull on both the positive and negative conductors at the same time. Quite often they are wrapped in an outer sheath and won't pull out separately. In the same token, it is possible that they might be a twisted pair. Also, by pulling both conductors as one, the cable will have twice the strength without parting and you will be able to exert twice the effort in moving them.

It is often possible to rewire with the use of a snake(s) or fish tape(s). I use the plural form because at certain times you cannot complete the job with just one. Sometimes, it takes two to tango.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=38156

A trade secret, if you will, is to use two fish tapes. Insert one tape into the cavity in one direction, and insert the second tape from the opposite end of the cavity, steering it in the general direction of the first tape. Skill is great but luck better. I'm getting ahead of the story.

Don't try to cut the hardened steel with your cutting pliers. You will ruin the ctutting edges.

Do cut the tape, leaving one piece much longer than your mast. The remainder is to go fishing with.

Look at the picture of the fishtape. Pay attention to how the end is formed. The tape is made of spring steel. The only way that you can form a configuration on its end is by first heating it cherry red with a propane type torch and then you can bend it any which way you want. Quench the hook in oil or water to harden or temper the steel.

The tape picked up the name fishtape because often when it is used, you push one tape into the passageway and then go fishing for it from the opposite direction with the second tape. An important reminder: you can't catch a fish with a closed hook. The second tape must have a Vee or "U" shaped open end to snag the first tape. You have to be very lucky to catch a fish that way.

Here's another trade secret that you won't read in the book. Take some kite string or nylon cord and wrap six or so loops around the palm of your hand, cut. Grab the six coils of cord in the middle and attach them to the loop in the end of the first tape. The coil must be securely attached to the tape. Now you have a "birds nest of twelve or so loops that can be snagged by the second tape.

Using this method with variations, you can pull wires around objects, around corners, and even through a side hole in the top or base of your mast.

I'm reluctant to bring up, in detail, a method to bore a new passageway through the core using a VSD attached to a flexible shaft and chuck.

Hey Troy, you did say to keep the suggestions coming.

FWIW,
O J

[Troy Scott]

Thanks, John!

This has been a great discussion!

[crussell]

Folks,
If the cabin light wiring in my 1978 CD 28 fails, I would be tempted to mount battery powered LED lights. The batteries last a long time with these lights.

[Troy Scott]

Charlie,
What kind of batteries do they use? What is the source for these lights?
I've seen some at Lowes, but they are cute but small and dim.

[Kurt]

A problem I discovered with my CD27's cabin light wiring is the fact that the wiring/lights are protected with a 15 amp circuit breaker. I was testing the circuit breaker one day by short circuiting the cabin wiring in the v-bunk and the circuit breaker wouldn't trip. Yet if I short circuited the wiring right at the breaker, it would trip. I ascertained the problem to be that the 16 (or 18?) gauge wire runs were so lengthy that the wire simply acted as a resistor that would heat up before the breaker would trip. A fire hazard to be sure.
I replaced the 15 amp breaker with a 5 amp. Another example of poor electrical design on Cape Dory's part.