Hi,
I have a 1986 CD26, with a lots of bottom paint layers on her. This year, now that she's on the hard, as you say, she's been dropping hunks of bottom paint, right down to the gelcoat. I am concerned that this will continue to happen when she's in the water next spring. The boat yard has quoted me a substantial amount to corn-blast the paint, and re-do the bottom (excluding patching any gelcoat that pops off during the blasting). I would like to know if anyone can offer a less expensive alternative? Thanks in advance, and happy holidays to all..... Linda
CD26LA@aol.com
bottom paint flakes
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Tom
Re: bottom paint flakes
Linda, Usually when it's that loose you can take a putty knife and scraper and knock it off. Once you get the edge going it chips up pretty quickly. It's a nasty job because bottom paint is very toxic you must wear a mask and long sleeves and try to keep it off you or you'll make yourself sick for a couple of days. It can be done but it's time consuming. There will be places where it's still stuck very well. You can leave these and "feather" the edges -- that is, sand them smooth.Hi,
I have a 1986 CD26, with a lots of bottom paint layers on her. This year, now that she's on the hard, as you say, she's been dropping hunks of bottom paint, right down to the gelcoat. I am concerned that this will continue to happen when she's in the water next spring. The boat yard has quoted me a substantial amount to corn-blast the paint, and re-do the bottom (excluding patching any gelcoat that pops off during the blasting). I would like to know if anyone can offer a less expensive alternative? Thanks in advance, and happy holidays to all..... Linda
Some day you'll decide there is just too much on there and decide to go back to the gelcoat and start again. Perhaps this is where you are now. Hiring the yard or a sandblaster to do it usually runs several hundred dollars and takes a half a day to complete. Maybe its' worth it to pay the money and get it done quickly and well -- especially if you're paying lay days. If you're on a real budget and don't mind some nasty work it is possible to do it by hand.
You still have the cost of repainting when it's done.
My 31 is the same vintage as yours. I'm still chipping and scraping and sanding every year. I get "spider" cracks every year when I haul out and I go to work chipping with the putty knife. As long as it doesn't flake off while you're still in the water you can stretch the inevitable a long time.
TomCambria@mindspring.com
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Capt. Mike
Re: bottom paint flakes
Dear Sailor:
A high pressure washer (approx. 3,000psi) may do the trick without damaging the gelcoat. When I clean the bottom after haul out with one it is sometimes difficult not to remove the paint. I have seen no apparent damage to the hull after paint removel. Be carefull contacting any wood for it acts like a saw. Repair to the gelcoat is quite simple using any of the epoxies on the market. Regards; Capt.
A high pressure washer (approx. 3,000psi) may do the trick without damaging the gelcoat. When I clean the bottom after haul out with one it is sometimes difficult not to remove the paint. I have seen no apparent damage to the hull after paint removel. Be carefull contacting any wood for it acts like a saw. Repair to the gelcoat is quite simple using any of the epoxies on the market. Regards; Capt.
Hi,
I have a 1986 CD26, with a lots of bottom paint layers on her. This year, now that she's on the hard, as you say, she's been dropping hunks of bottom paint, right down to the gelcoat. I am concerned that this will continue to happen when she's in the water next spring. The boat yard has quoted me a substantial amount to corn-blast the paint, and re-do the bottom (excluding patching any gelcoat that pops off during the blasting). I would like to know if anyone can offer a less expensive alternative? Thanks in advance, and happy holidays to all..... Linda
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Bob Loewenstein
Re: bottom paint flakes
We sanded our 27' hull down to gelcoat a few years ago. A good, LIGHTWEIGHT sander really worked nicely, although it took two of us several afternoons of hard work (each with a sander). Once done, we could examine the hull and go from there. The actually application of new bottom paint took just a few hours per coat using brush and roller. If you have the time, and don't mind getting dirty (cover all your skin, use gloves and breathing mask) and using elbow grease, you might consider this option.
rfl@yerkes.uchicago.edu
rfl@yerkes.uchicago.edu
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John
Re: bottom paint flakes
What grit sandpaper did you use?We sanded our 27' hull down to gelcoat a few years ago. A good, LIGHTWEIGHT sander really worked nicely, although it took two of us several afternoons of hard work (each with a sander). Once done, we could examine the hull and go from there. The actually application of new bottom paint took just a few hours per coat using brush and roller. If you have the time, and don't mind getting dirty (cover all your skin, use gloves and breathing mask) and using elbow grease, you might consider this option.
thekirby5@aol.com
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Jonathan Dodge
Re: bottom paint flakes
Linda.
This spring I started to remove the bottom paint (2-3 layers) from my 79 Typhoon. I started with a 5" grinder with a (random orbit head)
80 grit paper then moved into 40 grit paper. Once I hit the Gel coat I found a severer blistering promlem. 100's of small old blisters / fish eyes were painted over. All the sander did was remove the top paint leaving the old paint still in the holes.
Under the SUPERVISION OF A PROFESSIONAL I sand blasted off all the bottom paint and cleaned out all the old blisters at the same time.
I used gel coat repair/filler and now have a now and stable bottom (I hope)
Best of luck:
Jonathan
Jonathan.D.Dodge@HealthPartners.com
This spring I started to remove the bottom paint (2-3 layers) from my 79 Typhoon. I started with a 5" grinder with a (random orbit head)
80 grit paper then moved into 40 grit paper. Once I hit the Gel coat I found a severer blistering promlem. 100's of small old blisters / fish eyes were painted over. All the sander did was remove the top paint leaving the old paint still in the holes.
Under the SUPERVISION OF A PROFESSIONAL I sand blasted off all the bottom paint and cleaned out all the old blisters at the same time.
I used gel coat repair/filler and now have a now and stable bottom (I hope)
Best of luck:
Jonathan
Jonathan.D.Dodge@HealthPartners.com
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Bob Loewenstein
Re: bottom paint flakes
We used 80 grit. And make sure it's carborundum, not just sandpaper. Good quality paper lasted about 10-20 times longer than the cheap stuff.What grit sandpaper did you use?
Also we sanded by hand at the waterline, using tape to protect the unpainted gelcoat between the bottom paint and the boot stripe.
BTW, our boat was resting with its keel just a 4x4 away from ground. I was able to use a lawn chair which had a nice rake to its back for sanding alot of the keel. Being able to sit at the right angle made things a lot easier.
rfl@yerkes.uchicago.edu
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Larry DeMers
Re: bottom paint flakes
Linda,
We also have large to small blotches of bottom paint that take leave over winter storage. It was very bad 9 years ago, and has gotten better every year as we remove loose and suspiciously loose areas with a 3 in. putty knife (with the edges rounded down with a grinder or file so they don't mark the fiberglass). Whereever you have spiderwebs or circles, lift everything that will lift up, thenuse a small sharp scraper to flatten off the edge of the bottom paint that sticks. Then after it's all chipped, use some 280-300 grit sandpaper, and lightly abrade the patches where the bottom paint was removed.Do this in various directions lightly and uniformly (you just want to break through the mold release wax that apparently is still on the hull from the mold, or if a chemical prep wash for the bottom paint had been used -this process is really suspicious in my eyes, this light abrading will give the new paint a bite without damaging the gel coat.
After 9 years, we now are getting 1-3 patches about hand sized, that need to be removed, sanded and painted. At this rate next year or the following, we will not have any blotches falling off. This process does work.
The most common cause of this problem is the chemical etchant that was used (in place of sandpaper) when the boat was new. The etchant is faster and cheaper, and sometimes works..if there is no mold relaease wax on the gel coat. This should have been removed at the first bottom coating.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
demers@sgi.com
We also have large to small blotches of bottom paint that take leave over winter storage. It was very bad 9 years ago, and has gotten better every year as we remove loose and suspiciously loose areas with a 3 in. putty knife (with the edges rounded down with a grinder or file so they don't mark the fiberglass). Whereever you have spiderwebs or circles, lift everything that will lift up, thenuse a small sharp scraper to flatten off the edge of the bottom paint that sticks. Then after it's all chipped, use some 280-300 grit sandpaper, and lightly abrade the patches where the bottom paint was removed.Do this in various directions lightly and uniformly (you just want to break through the mold release wax that apparently is still on the hull from the mold, or if a chemical prep wash for the bottom paint had been used -this process is really suspicious in my eyes, this light abrading will give the new paint a bite without damaging the gel coat.
After 9 years, we now are getting 1-3 patches about hand sized, that need to be removed, sanded and painted. At this rate next year or the following, we will not have any blotches falling off. This process does work.
The most common cause of this problem is the chemical etchant that was used (in place of sandpaper) when the boat was new. The etchant is faster and cheaper, and sometimes works..if there is no mold relaease wax on the gel coat. This should have been removed at the first bottom coating.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
Hi,
I have a 1986 CD26, with a lots of bottom paint layers on her. This year, now that she's on the hard, as you say, she's been dropping hunks of bottom paint, right down to the gelcoat. I am concerned that this will continue to happen when she's in the water next spring. The boat yard has quoted me a substantial amount to corn-blast the paint, and re-do the bottom (excluding patching any gelcoat that pops off during the blasting). I would like to know if anyone can offer a less expensive alternative? Thanks in advance, and happy holidays to all..... Linda
demers@sgi.com
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Bob Luby
Re: bottom paint flakes
One alternative I'd like to mention here is Peel-Away Safety Strip
( If you want to get all the paint off.)
The goop is somewhat stiff, ( like butter) and you spread it on, cover it with paper ( provided ), and a day later, remove it.
A lot of the paint & goop comes off with the paper. That which doesn't can be scraped off. It's a bit pricey, but it beats paying a yard, or sanding with a respirator. It does not damage the gel coat.
I removed all the paint in a weekend or two myself, on my 25D and then painted with an ablative paint to forestall future paint buildup.
Now I just touch up the weak spots every year.
Rluby@aol.com
( If you want to get all the paint off.)
The goop is somewhat stiff, ( like butter) and you spread it on, cover it with paper ( provided ), and a day later, remove it.
A lot of the paint & goop comes off with the paper. That which doesn't can be scraped off. It's a bit pricey, but it beats paying a yard, or sanding with a respirator. It does not damage the gel coat.
I removed all the paint in a weekend or two myself, on my 25D and then painted with an ablative paint to forestall future paint buildup.
Now I just touch up the weak spots every year.
Rluby@aol.com
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Andrew Denmark
Re: bottom paint flakes
Hi Linda,
One of the easiest and safest ways of removing the multiple layers of old bottom paint has not been mentioned; wet sanding with 80 grit wet-or-dry paper (the black stuff). Not only does this eliminate dust particles in the air (which most respirators don't fully remove, BTW) but with a continuing fine spray of water to keep the paper from clogging, removes old bottom paint quite fast. Yes, this takes two people working together. Using a long-handled dry-wall sander with 80-grit at the business end makes the job a lot easier than hands-and-knees under the boat. At the same time it removes the PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) mold release, enabling the first coat of bottom paint to attach to a good "tooth" on the gel coat. Less abrasive paper is a waste of energy to no good end. Better is to get the bottom 100% clear of bottom paint/mold release and roll on a minimum of two coats of Interlux 2000 as a barrier coat before bottom painting. Since this is essentially a "new" bottom, I'd suggest at least two coats of top quality (Neptune, Trinidad, etc.) bottom paint initially. In following years a light sanding (80 grit wet-or-dry as above) before a single paint coat should suffice and keep buildup to a minimum. The choice of bottom paint depends on what works in your area. Here in NC we grow barnacles like crazy and the top-grade paint is esential and the most cost effective, assuming an annual haulout. But boats stay in the water year round here. Lower CuO2 content paints may work okay elsewhere. This process was recommended boatyard practice evolved over many years and based on test panels and long-term boat experience. (Emperical data on all of this.) A hot shower and heavy scrubbing is the final step in this process as you will look like someone from another planet after the sanding part is finished.
Good luck and have fun,
Andy Denmark
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
trekker@coastalnet.com
One of the easiest and safest ways of removing the multiple layers of old bottom paint has not been mentioned; wet sanding with 80 grit wet-or-dry paper (the black stuff). Not only does this eliminate dust particles in the air (which most respirators don't fully remove, BTW) but with a continuing fine spray of water to keep the paper from clogging, removes old bottom paint quite fast. Yes, this takes two people working together. Using a long-handled dry-wall sander with 80-grit at the business end makes the job a lot easier than hands-and-knees under the boat. At the same time it removes the PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) mold release, enabling the first coat of bottom paint to attach to a good "tooth" on the gel coat. Less abrasive paper is a waste of energy to no good end. Better is to get the bottom 100% clear of bottom paint/mold release and roll on a minimum of two coats of Interlux 2000 as a barrier coat before bottom painting. Since this is essentially a "new" bottom, I'd suggest at least two coats of top quality (Neptune, Trinidad, etc.) bottom paint initially. In following years a light sanding (80 grit wet-or-dry as above) before a single paint coat should suffice and keep buildup to a minimum. The choice of bottom paint depends on what works in your area. Here in NC we grow barnacles like crazy and the top-grade paint is esential and the most cost effective, assuming an annual haulout. But boats stay in the water year round here. Lower CuO2 content paints may work okay elsewhere. This process was recommended boatyard practice evolved over many years and based on test panels and long-term boat experience. (Emperical data on all of this.) A hot shower and heavy scrubbing is the final step in this process as you will look like someone from another planet after the sanding part is finished.
Good luck and have fun,
Andy Denmark
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
trekker@coastalnet.com
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Bob Pence
Re: bottom paint flakes
You have obviously had a lot of suggestions as to how to remove paint. Once you get down to the gelcoat, I agree, apply one coat of Interlux 2000, lightly sand, clean, apply second coat. Then apply 2 to 3 coats of Petits ACP-50 sloughing bottom paint. Make each coat a different color. When the intial coat starts showing you know it's time to repaint. This paint becomes dormant when the boat is hauled for winter or for whatever shorter period and reactivates when put back in the water. 2 to 3 coats should last 2 to 3 years. I have never seen it build and flake as it is continually sloughfing. Merry ChristmasPS: Interlux has a great brochure and a good technical support 800 number. Of course they won't recommend ACP-50 as it is a comptetitive product but they do well when it comes to blisters etc with Interprotect 1000< VC filler, and Interprotect 2000.Hi,
I have a 1986 CD26, with a lots of bottom paint layers on her. This year, now that she's on the hard, as you say, she's been dropping hunks of bottom paint, right down to the gelcoat. I am concerned that this will continue to happen when she's in the water next spring. The boat yard has quoted me a substantial amount to corn-blast the paint, and re-do the bottom (excluding patching any gelcoat that pops off during the blasting). I would like to know if anyone can offer a less expensive alternative? Thanks in advance, and happy holidays to all..... Linda
sixpence@dmv.com
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Mike Thompson
Re: bottom paint flaking. Avoid it!
I have been using an approach similar to Larry DeMers. It works
well for me. A lot less work than stripping off ALL the paint!
The key question is: After hauling in the fall is there a lot of
marine growth? If there is none, then use LESS paint next year.
(You can thin the paint with paint-thiner). My boat is in Maine
and I use 1/2 to 1/3rd of the recommended paint and still do
not get much marine growth. This avoids build-up and flaking.
Mike
tmike@ma.ultranet.com
well for me. A lot less work than stripping off ALL the paint!
The key question is: After hauling in the fall is there a lot of
marine growth? If there is none, then use LESS paint next year.
(You can thin the paint with paint-thiner). My boat is in Maine
and I use 1/2 to 1/3rd of the recommended paint and still do
not get much marine growth. This avoids build-up and flaking.
Mike
Linda,
We also have large to small blotches of bottom paint that take leave over winter storage. It was very bad 9 years ago, and has gotten better every year as we remove loose and suspiciously loose areas with a 3 in. putty knife (with the edges rounded down with a grinder or file so they don't mark the fiberglass). Whereever you have spiderwebs or circles, lift everything that will lift up, thenuse a small sharp scraper to flatten off the edge of the bottom paint that sticks. Then after it's all chipped, use some 280-300 grit sandpaper, and lightly abrade the patches where the bottom paint was removed.Do this in various directions lightly and uniformly (you just want to break through the mold release wax that apparently is still on the hull from the mold, or if a chemical prep wash for the bottom paint had been used -this process is really suspicious in my eyes, this light abrading will give the new paint a bite without damaging the gel coat.
After 9 years, we now are getting 1-3 patches about hand sized, that need to be removed, sanded and painted. At this rate next year or the following, we will not have any blotches falling off. This process does work.
The most common cause of this problem is the chemical etchant that was used (in place of sandpaper) when the boat was new. The etchant is faster and cheaper, and sometimes works..if there is no mold relaease wax on the gel coat. This should have been removed at the first bottom coating.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
Hi,
I have a 1986 CD26, with a lots of bottom paint layers on her. This year, now that she's on the hard, as you say, she's been dropping hunks of bottom paint, right down to the gelcoat. I am concerned that this will continue to happen when she's in the water next spring. The boat yard has quoted me a substantial amount to corn-blast the paint, and re-do the bottom (excluding patching any gelcoat that pops off during the blasting). I would like to know if anyone can offer a less expensive alternative? Thanks in advance, and happy holidays to all..... Linda
tmike@ma.ultranet.com
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David Brownlee
Re: bottom paint flakes
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Like Larry and Mike we've been dealing with flakes on a piecemeal basis for years, both on our present boat and our previous CD25. It's been getting better all along, and we wouldn't recommend stripping, blasting, or sanding everything off unless you are concerned about blisters.
Ann and David Brownlee
WINDRUSH CD27 #181
Havre de Grace, MD
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu
Like Larry and Mike we've been dealing with flakes on a piecemeal basis for years, both on our present boat and our previous CD25. It's been getting better all along, and we wouldn't recommend stripping, blasting, or sanding everything off unless you are concerned about blisters.
Ann and David Brownlee
WINDRUSH CD27 #181
Havre de Grace, MD
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu