Reefing/furler system for 1977 CD Typhoon Weekender

[bottomscraper]

I know nothing about the CDI but I agree with the "sail her for a year before making any significant changes" philosophy. I wish we had done that with our previous boat! (We would have just sold it and not spent a penny, but then again it wasn't a CD. ) On Mahalo we resisted the urge to change things and our first year end of season todo list looked significantly different than we expected. Some things that seemed all wrong worked out well and other things that seemed fine didn't.

I am a big fan of furlers but if you decide that you can live without a furler for the first season adding a downhaul is prudent, inexpensive and easy to do yourself.

[ronkberg]

Robert, I agree with the advice of others that suggest doing no upgrades until you have sailed for awhile.

My Ty came with a pulpit and life lines. Even though I agree with other's opinions that the Ty lines are beautiful w/o any additional options, I sailed w/o a furler for two seasons and whenever I had to go forward to drop the jib, I was happy to have lines and a pulpit to grab. I'd slide forward on my bottom and grab for security as I tied off the jib and had a hobby horse ride in surf and got thoroughly soaked. It made me a better sailor........NOT! But I did it and am now enjoying the cockpit sailing with the assistance of the CDI. Sail shape is not perfect.......SO WHAT! I am safe and comfortable! Others sail faster because their hank-on genoa is covering lower to the deck.......SO WHAT! I am safe, dry and confident!

IMHO, sail conservatively for this season w/o any options. You will gain confidence with the boat and your abilities and then can decide if buying a CDI FF1 ( of course it can furl! ) with ball bearing if necessary. You will not need the pulpit and life lines, thus better Ty lines, and yet you will have the comfort of cockpit control of the genny.

That's my opinion and I'm not much more experienced than you......sort of a senior tadpole .

Sail on cap'n and enjoy your wonderful Typhoon.

Ron

By the way, when do we get the photos?

[Gary H]

My Ty, purchased one year ago, came with a Schaeffer CF500 Roller Furling and a 130 Genoa. Never having sailed with a hank-on jib, I became instantly spoiled. It has worked flawlessly and I don't have to send my wife, who cannot swim, up on deck to lower the sail! It is nice to have the sail out of the way when picking up my mooring.
The only problem I had was on the first day I tried to raise the headsail. The bearings seemed to no turn freely. After several attempts, I lowered the bearing assembly and sprayed it with silicon. Presto - it worked perfectly from then on.
I am hoping to grow some frog legs this season.

[Gary M]

Hey Sea Hunt,

When a good wind comes through my marina I usually see sails coming unfurled, sometimes doing damage to the sail.

If my boat were sitting on a mooring I would consider removing the sail as part of putting the boat away. Just in case.

So you may want to consider that hoisting a sail on a roller is a little more time consuming then hoisting a hank on.

It may affect your decision, it may not.

Just something to think about.

Gary

[Sea Hunt]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, recommendations and advise. It seems like it is sort of split between hank on advocates and roller/furler advocates.

After taking my initial sailing lessons on a Colgate 26, I sailed for about a year on Ensign 22s with a hank on 100% jib. I liked it a lot. However, there were always 2 other POBs (and experienced sailors). I had no hesitation going forward because if I fell off (surprisingly I never did), I knew they would probably come around to pick my up.

The sailing club sold the Ensigns and bought Harbor 20s. I now race (if you can call it that) on Harbor 20s that have the CDI furler system. It is admittedly a lot easier and, in moderately rough conditions, a lot safer.

My sole interest in thinking about a roller/furler is the issue of safety. I will be single handing. My Ty has neither a pulpit nor lifelines. If I should be on the foredeck doing whatever with the headsail, and I fall off, well, as comfortable as I am in and under the water I would not enjoy the view from the water of my lovely Ty sailing off without her captain.

I believe in the KISS principle. I was dragged kicking and screaming into the world of electric car/truck windows. Manual handles work just fine thank you. I do not want a roller/furler. I just think it may be a safety necessity given my solo sailing status.

I will talk with the rigger later this week and get his thoughts about a downhaul for the head sail. Although there are several head sails that came with the Ty, the storm jib and 100% jib are OEMs and in poor condition. I knew this when I bought her. Thus, I would be hanking on a 150% Genoa which is almost new and in very good condition. Working on the foredeck with a 150% Genoa may be a little much for me at my current "tadpole" status.

The sailmaker said she can convert a 150 Genoa to be used with a roller/furler. I guess another option is to invest in a small hank on jib and sail with it and a reefed main for the first 6-8 months.

If all goes well, she will be delivered to a marina here in Miami tomorrow afternoon. It will be a sleepless night tonight

[Neil Gordon]

When a good wind comes through my marina I usually see sails coming unfurled, sometimes doing damage to the sail.

If my boat were sitting on a mooring I would consider removing the sail as part of putting the boat away. Just in case.

For a storm, I might consider removing all the sails and canvas. Otherwise, a sail tie that runs through the clew of the genoa and around the furled sail will keep things tidy even if the furling line decides not to cooperate.

[seajunkie]

Seahunt, I am in the exact same boat as you...except mine is a CD25. I am going to have to single hand a lot too. The FF2 seemed like a pretty good deal, only now that I have to buy a mainsail I will really have no money for a while.

After reading this great thread, I think that I will use the smaller headsail with a downhaul until I can come up with some money.

I'm guessing that the only downside will be some speed degradation. Will it hurt pointing ability drastically? How well do the CD's point with no headsail? Lol, I couldn't test mine out as I blew the mainsail out and was sailing mostly with head sail only.

[Oswego John]

Robert, aka Sea Hunt,

Most of the big guns and heavy hitters on the board have checked in, all with excellent advice and logic to back up their statements. Now it's my chance to step up to the plate to bat. There is really not much left to say that hasn't already been mentioned.

I met a very nice member last Saturday at our GLF winter/spring meeting, a pretty, friendly lady sailor. As fate dictated, she was seated next to me at early lunch. I had never had the pleasure of previously meeting her or had never noted her name before this chance conversation. It went something like this.

I introduced myself early on but only mentioned my pen name, Oswego John. She told me that she was aware and familiar with me. It seems that she had bought a new to her CD about two or so years ago. She had written to the board, asking info on a question she had about her new boat.

I was one of the members who had commented to her query. She went on to tell me that part of my answer was "you have to get to know your boat." She told me that, at first, she took exception to my answer. It was anything but well taken. Actuall, she was a little miffed at my answer. Then, she added that as time passed, my advice seemed to mellow out and at this stage of the game, it turned out to be sage advice.
She now realized what I was originally saying. Which is, get to know your boat, really get to know it. Discover its every nuance and peculiarity, how far do you dare press it and what are its no-nos. In time you just might discover that it can take more than you can dish out .

My sole interest in thinking about a roller/furler is the issue of safety. I will be single handing. My Ty has neither a pulpit nor lifelines. If I should be on the foredeck doing whatever with the headsail, and I fall off, well, as comfortable as I am in and under the water I would not enjoy the view from the water of my lovely Ty sailing off without her captain.

Life isn't one big race. Kick back and enjoy. A working jib and a main with reef(s) will provide you with enough excitement to get you started while getting to acquaint yourself with your Ty.

I feel your concern, having to go f'wrd while single handling. You are not alone in your thoughts. If you take steps to do things properly, you can cut down on the odds that something drastic will happen while sailing. Here are some things I try to do to avoid calamity.

Pay attention to the weather rports before leaving port. Reef and select the proper sails beforehand. A PFD is to be worn, it's not a cushion. Have the lines brought back to the cockpit. A harness and tether must be worn when going f'wrd. It really won't take much to get used to being clipped in while in the cockpit, too.

When it is necessary to go f'wrd, hove to. When the tiller is lashed hard over, if something happens and you're in the drink, your Ty won't be sailing away from you. Some people slack off all the sheets, too.

Have a break away or folding ladder that can be used to reboard the boat if necessary. Different thoughts have been mentioned regarding the length of the tether. My feelings are that it should either be short enough to prevent you from going over the side, or long enough that if you do go over, it will be long enough to allow you to reach the ladder. That tether is your umbilical cord to life.

If you don't take unnecessary chances, prepare ahead of time and use your head in what you are doing, you will have many hours, days, years ahead of enjoyable sailing.

Best regards,
O J

[SeaBelle]

My philosophy about falling overboard while slightly overstated is this - "If you're in the water, you're dead". This hyperbole reminds me to place more emphasis on staying aboard than staying afloat and being retrieved. One day the light bulb turned on; I kept reading about getting yourself out of a deadly situation and little about staying out of trouble. "Put your PFD on when going forward in bad weather", COB drills, dragging a line astern when single handing, etc. These are worthwhile ideas if they do not distract from the first rule "Don't fall off!"

I have a combo harness/PFD and wear it in bad weather, even just a little bad, and ALWAYS clip on when going forward. I use 2 tethers. One short and one long so that when I move off the jackline to the mast I'm always attached. I make sure to go forward on the high side so that I don't wind up in the water being dragged.

One of my most exciting experiences was in heavy seas winds steady at 35kn for days and gusting to 50kn lightening low and horizontal on the edge of the Gulf stream. Not on SeaBelle but on a Sabre 452 with a crew of 4. We were sailing through hell. I was on the foredeck clipped on. This was no time for a COB exercise; it would probably be unsuccessful and put the entire crew at risk. Don't fall off.

As a bonus, when clipped on the 'One hand for yourself, one for the boat' rule doesn't apply; I use both hands for the job at hand.

Don't ignore flotation and COB but emphasize the 1st rule - Don't fall off!

[Neil Gordon]

Don't ignore flotation and COB but emphasize the 1st rule - Don't fall off!

COB tests conducted in San Francisco bay confirm that if you're in the water, you should count on dying. It's very difficult to recover someone and even more difficult to recover yourself. I agree though, don't abandon the pfd.

[Dick Barthel]

Sea Hunt,

As usual, OJ hits things on the head.

I second OJ's recommendation about learning how to hove to. Everything settles and you can recover your calm and make good decisions, even if its really blowing. That's how I get my sails down at the end of a sail most of the time when I'm solo. The Cape Dory is built for this maneuver. You'll also learn something about sail balance in the process.

Man, you're got some exciting days ahead.

Dick

[hughesw]

Hi;

I've been keeping up with your posts. Congratulations on the Weekender!

FWIW I just saw this Schafer Snapfurl CF-500 roller furler unit on EBay. EBay item: 160224496914

5 hours remaining, 0 bids, currently $287. The unit is located in NJ and seller says it is local pickup only, but seems like one of the CD clan in the neighborhood could help you out. These units go for about $600 new. The foil on the unit is the reason the seller specifies local pickup only. However, i think that if the foil can be unsnapped (it is actually two pieces that sanp together around hte headstay) it could then more readily be packaged for shipping.

I have the same unit on my CD-22. It is my first experience with roller furling, having always used hank-on headsails. Once I figured how it all works, it seems to be fairly bullet proof.

As for which way to go - hank-on or furler - I'm sort of on the fence.

As far as sail shape and performance goes, you can't beat a headsail designed specifically with consideration to size and wind range. A 150% genoa of 4 oz dacron would be ideal for light wind days. But then so would a 130%, 115%, etc. on windier days.

The sail I have on the furler is a 130% genoa of 5 or more oz dacron, about 10 years old. So far, it has been fairly good in moderate to windy conditions, but pretty pathetic in light wind - particularly donwind. I am not particularly with the overall sail shape, but the ability to reduce the size of the sail and to furl it up at the end of the day is quite nice.

Just my $0.02 worth,

Warren H.

[Gary H]

I appreciate all of the advice about being tethered when going on deck - even in the cockpit for kids or solos. Has anyone found a good system for tethering in a Ty without lifelines? Point(s) of attachment and length of tether(s)? I have thought about the sliding fairlead on the top of the cabin roof as an attachement point, as I do not use those with my genoa furler. Love to hear other suggestions.

[rtbates]

Sea Hunt,

As usual, OJ hits things on the head.

I second OJ's recommendation about learning how to hove to. Everything settles and you can recover your calm and make good decisions, even if its really blowing. That's how I get my sails down at the end of a sail most of the time when I'm solo. The Cape Dory is built for this maneuver. You'll also learn something about sail balance in the process.

Man, you're got some exciting days ahead.

Dick

I totally agree concerning heaving to with one observation. If I'm sailing and the wind increases from say 10 to 20+ and I've been sailing with my full 130 genoa, in-order to heave to comfortably I must roll in the genoa quit a bit to say 100 or less. IF I heave to in that much wind with the 130 full Seraph will fall way off the wind no matter how much main I have up. And being so far off the wind Seraph will make several knots more or less downwind. Not hove to at all, just drifting downwind with a backwinded headsail. So my experience shows that the ability to roller reef the genoa makes heaving to much better. Having the ability to roller reef the genoa also allows me to adjust Seraph's angle to the wind by rolling the headsail in or out as need be. Much easier than adjusting the main by adding or removing a reef.

Mike, aboard Breezy in the Pacific told me he didn't carry any storm sails aboard his 25D. Just a main with three reefs and a genoa he could roller reef. How simple could it get?

[SeaBelle]

rigged from the aft quarters to the bow. They are flat webbing so you can strep on them w/o risking a fall. I clip on in the cockpit and can go anywhere from there. I clip to the Jackline on the high side so if I fall it will be downhill and the tether will stop me before I fall off. At the mast or bow, the typical destinations, I re-clip using the short tether around a strong point like the mast and back to the harness. You don't want to fall into the water attached to the boat - it's almost impossible to get back on board when the boat is moving.