I am in the market for a CD 30. I am new to CD's. I have a situation and I want to find out if it's a 'deal' or not. A '79 Ketch has come to my attention. She has orig sails, gelcoat ( in good but dull condition ), volvo diesel ( never re-built ) , standing rigging and interior. Gelcoat/structure seems good, but she has an ominous gelcoat crack 10" long at the 90 deg. joint where the forward deckhouse meets the deck ( the floor is not soft there yet ). Also, there is some sort of noticeable delam. going on in the cockpit floor under and near the old style 'sit-down, reverse-facing wooden wheel structure'. The boat could be bought for $15,000. I am handy, w/ some glass exper., but do not want to exceed an add'l $10,000 in repairs - overall. I would be willing to lay her up for up to (3) years to make her 'yare'.
Does it seem like a deal ? I was not looking for a ketch - how does it sail ? Is it more or less desired than a CD sloop or a cutter model ? Can the ketch be converted to a sloop or a cutter ( how and is ti expensive ? ) How much for a new suit of sails ( replacing present jib w/ a roller furling full jib ( presently there is no furling system ). How much to r/r the present wheel and put in a pedastal? Is the deck balsa core, or ply ? How about the top of deckhouse and hull ( balsa or any wood ? )
I do not want to be blinded by the lower than market price only to find out that I put more $$ and time into her than she's worth. Her orig ask was much higher - I low-balled my offer and the owner is eager to get out.
I do apologize for all the questions, but I do not trust brokers to give me the real picture; I would rather defer to people who know the boat and would give an unbiased opinion.
Thank you.
Alan Levy
ABL1111@AOL.COM
Advice on purchase of CD30 Ketch ?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Leo MacDonald CD30K
Re: Advice on purchase of CD30 Ketch ?
Hi Alan,
I have a 1977 CD30K and you have a lot of questions.
Number (1) Find yourself a good surveyor. My info or this b/board for that matter will be your second source.
... She has orig sails...
Depending on use and abuse sails last approx 10-20 years.
...gelcoat ( in good but dull condition )...
Buff and wax may work, a paint job would be expensive. Do not know current $$$.
...Volvo diesel ( never re-built )...
I have the original Volvo-Penta MD7A, 13 HP, 2 cylinder that runs fine after a few dollars and a marine mechanic had at it.
...gelcoat crack 10" long at the 90 deg. joint...
Cape Dories seam to develop gelcoat cracks. A surveyor with a moisture meter will tell you worlds of info.
...Also, there is some sort of noticeable delam. going on in the cockpit floor under and near the old style 'sit-down, reverse-facing wooden wheel structure...
This may is significant.
...The boat could be bought for $15,000...
Relatively, even with some areas to address, this sounds very good. Two years ago I purchased my 77 CD30K for $22,000 and promptly put another $10,000 into it. (The number is still growing.)
...I am handy, w/ some glass exper...
In the sailing world that is a BIG asset.
...I would be willing to lay her up for up to (3) years...
Too long for me.
...Does it seem like a deal ? ...
Check the BUCs listings, but, YES.
...ketch - how does it sail ?...
Give this board a search under key word "ketch". Over the last couple of years a few discussions on ketch/cutter/sloop/mizzen/staysail etc have bounced around.
...Is it more or less desired than a CD sloop or a cutter model?...
I’m in favor of a ketch.
...Can the ketch be converted to a sloop or a cutter...
Not very easily (big $$$). The main mast is about 2 ft further forward and two foot shorter on the CD30K vice the CD30 cutter, sooo.. forestay, shrouds, backstay, boom, etc, etc, etc.
...replacing present jib w/ a roller furling full jib...
Good idea, I have a roller furling that needs to be replaced (plastimo - POS, IMHO.)
...How much to r/r the present wheel and put in a pedestal...
A lot
...Is the deck balsa core, or ply?...deckhouse and hull ( balsa or any wood ? )...
I believe the deck and coach roof are balsa cored and the hull is solid.
...worth...
Again, check the BUCs listing, but this is a very good price. If you made the offer and the owner excepted, then the next step is a survey anyhow.
...I do not trust brokers to give me the real picture;...
Although not 100%, I found brokers to be a big cut above the average used anything salesperson.
...I would rather defer to people who know the boat and would give an unbiased opinion...
This is a CD BB, although most answers will try and steer you straight, I wouldn’t use "unbiased" too much. Most of us love CDs and Alberg’s designs.
With others comments and exceptions, that should get the ball rolling. If I didn’t have a CD now I would ask to be next in line if backed out. Happy sailing, they are fine, seaworthy boats.
I think we're going to see if there is interest in a CD sail-in in July 2000 in the New London, CT area, maybe we'll see you there.
Leo MacDonald CD30K #57 Heather Ann
macdola@gwsmtp.nu.com
I have a 1977 CD30K and you have a lot of questions.
Number (1) Find yourself a good surveyor. My info or this b/board for that matter will be your second source.
... She has orig sails...
Depending on use and abuse sails last approx 10-20 years.
...gelcoat ( in good but dull condition )...
Buff and wax may work, a paint job would be expensive. Do not know current $$$.
...Volvo diesel ( never re-built )...
I have the original Volvo-Penta MD7A, 13 HP, 2 cylinder that runs fine after a few dollars and a marine mechanic had at it.
...gelcoat crack 10" long at the 90 deg. joint...
Cape Dories seam to develop gelcoat cracks. A surveyor with a moisture meter will tell you worlds of info.
...Also, there is some sort of noticeable delam. going on in the cockpit floor under and near the old style 'sit-down, reverse-facing wooden wheel structure...
This may is significant.
...The boat could be bought for $15,000...
Relatively, even with some areas to address, this sounds very good. Two years ago I purchased my 77 CD30K for $22,000 and promptly put another $10,000 into it. (The number is still growing.)
...I am handy, w/ some glass exper...
In the sailing world that is a BIG asset.
...I would be willing to lay her up for up to (3) years...
Too long for me.
...Does it seem like a deal ? ...
Check the BUCs listings, but, YES.
...ketch - how does it sail ?...
Give this board a search under key word "ketch". Over the last couple of years a few discussions on ketch/cutter/sloop/mizzen/staysail etc have bounced around.
...Is it more or less desired than a CD sloop or a cutter model?...
I’m in favor of a ketch.
...Can the ketch be converted to a sloop or a cutter...
Not very easily (big $$$). The main mast is about 2 ft further forward and two foot shorter on the CD30K vice the CD30 cutter, sooo.. forestay, shrouds, backstay, boom, etc, etc, etc.
...replacing present jib w/ a roller furling full jib...
Good idea, I have a roller furling that needs to be replaced (plastimo - POS, IMHO.)
...How much to r/r the present wheel and put in a pedestal...
A lot
...Is the deck balsa core, or ply?...deckhouse and hull ( balsa or any wood ? )...
I believe the deck and coach roof are balsa cored and the hull is solid.
...worth...
Again, check the BUCs listing, but this is a very good price. If you made the offer and the owner excepted, then the next step is a survey anyhow.
...I do not trust brokers to give me the real picture;...
Although not 100%, I found brokers to be a big cut above the average used anything salesperson.
...I would rather defer to people who know the boat and would give an unbiased opinion...
This is a CD BB, although most answers will try and steer you straight, I wouldn’t use "unbiased" too much. Most of us love CDs and Alberg’s designs.
With others comments and exceptions, that should get the ball rolling. If I didn’t have a CD now I would ask to be next in line if backed out. Happy sailing, they are fine, seaworthy boats.
I think we're going to see if there is interest in a CD sail-in in July 2000 in the New London, CT area, maybe we'll see you there.
Leo MacDonald CD30K #57 Heather Ann
macdola@gwsmtp.nu.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Advice on purchase of CD30 Ketch ?
Alan,
It is my belief that the CD30 ketch is too small of a form to put the ketch rig on. It creates an almost unuseable cockpit (roomwise), and frankly, the rig does not have many advantages for all the trouble. Speed over the cutter version is certainly not among the advantages.
Secondly, the resale value of a ketch rig is less than for the cutter rig (preferred rig). So for the pleasure of additional maintenance, higher maintainance costs, and a lot less room in the cockpit, you get an additional mast to use perhaps when off the wind.
Now, I am admittedly partial to the cutter rig, but I have not been convinced by the use of the ketch rig on a boat this small. There is just nothing to recommend it.
The question about the delaminated cockpit will be expensive. We had the same things about 5 years ago. We removed the top cockpit layer of fiberglass, replaced the marine ply under the top layer, and then reinstalled the whole thing. This came to $3000 yard work, with us doing a lot of the work.
Write if you have more questions:
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~~~~~~~
demers@sgi.com
It is my belief that the CD30 ketch is too small of a form to put the ketch rig on. It creates an almost unuseable cockpit (roomwise), and frankly, the rig does not have many advantages for all the trouble. Speed over the cutter version is certainly not among the advantages.
Secondly, the resale value of a ketch rig is less than for the cutter rig (preferred rig). So for the pleasure of additional maintenance, higher maintainance costs, and a lot less room in the cockpit, you get an additional mast to use perhaps when off the wind.
Now, I am admittedly partial to the cutter rig, but I have not been convinced by the use of the ketch rig on a boat this small. There is just nothing to recommend it.
The question about the delaminated cockpit will be expensive. We had the same things about 5 years ago. We removed the top cockpit layer of fiberglass, replaced the marine ply under the top layer, and then reinstalled the whole thing. This came to $3000 yard work, with us doing a lot of the work.
Write if you have more questions:
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~~~~~~~
I am in the market for a CD 30. I am new to CD's. I have a situation and I want to find out if it's a 'deal' or not. A '79 Ketch has come to my attention. She has orig sails, gelcoat ( in good but dull condition ), volvo diesel ( never re-built ) , standing rigging and interior. Gelcoat/structure seems good, but she has an ominous gelcoat crack 10" long at the 90 deg. joint where the forward deckhouse meets the deck ( the floor is not soft there yet ). Also, there is some sort of noticeable delam. going on in the cockpit floor under and near the old style 'sit-down, reverse-facing wooden wheel structure'. The boat could be bought for $15,000. I am handy, w/ some glass exper., but do not want to exceed an add'l $10,000 in repairs - overall. I would be willing to lay her up for up to (3) years to make her 'yare'.
Does it seem like a deal ? I was not looking for a ketch - how does it sail ? Is it more or less desired than a CD sloop or a cutter model ? Can the ketch be converted to a sloop or a cutter ( how and is ti expensive ? ) How much for a new suit of sails ( replacing present jib w/ a roller furling full jib ( presently there is no furling system ). How much to r/r the present wheel and put in a pedastal? Is the deck balsa core, or ply ? How about the top of deckhouse and hull ( balsa or any wood ? )
I do not want to be blinded by the lower than market price only to find out that I put more $$ and time into her than she's worth. Her orig ask was much higher - I low-balled my offer and the owner is eager to get out.
I do apologize for all the questions, but I do not trust brokers to give me the real picture; I would rather defer to people who know the boat and would give an unbiased opinion.
Thank you.
Alan Levy
demers@sgi.com
-
Olli Wendelin
Re: Advice on purchase of CD30 Ketch ?
Alan,
This looks like a reasonable price for the boat you described.
I own a CD30 Ketch. Below I added a previous post describing some of it's virtues.
The next step is a survey. This will help find any major descrepancies that you haven't found. Should cost ~$300.00 and take at least 1/2 a day. In the last survey I had done the surveyor went up and down all the rigging with a magnifier and layed underneath the cockpit to observe the engine while it was running.
A new set of bluewater cruising sails including working jib and 155 genoa should run a little less than $3000.00 from a good local loft.
Why replace the Edson worm gear steering with a pedistal? That would be a downgrade, not an upgrade. I suspect that CD changed the installation in later years due to cost. I spoke with the Edson rep at the sailboat show in St Petersburg last month. There are Edson worm gear steering systems that have been in continuous service for over a hundred years.
The fiberglass problems you describe are within the realm of the handyman. Yard labor runs $45.00 per hour or more. Unless you take home pay is close, it pays to buy the tools and do the work yourself. Assuming you have the time.
Good Luck,
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
Below is a previous posting I submited.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Ketch or cutter? Good question. The cutter rig appears to be more popular. All the later year boats are cutters. All the listings I have seen for ketches are either 77's or 78's. Note that the hull is the same for either rig. The interior varies a bit by year, but not by rig. I purchased a ketch because of opportunity, cost, and timing (1977 CD30 #36). I liked the idea of a ketch rig, but was concerned that it might be a bit crowded in a 30 ft boat.
I can seat five comfortably in the cockpit, seven with some crowding. Without the mizzen mast I could probably fit one more. The mizzen mast and boom turn out to be good cockpit handholds in rough weather. The mast is just right as a handhold when coming up from the cabin. The mizzen shrouds and main split backstay are a little busy, but again provide good handholds. I have a cockpit awning that goes under the mizzen boom and provides good rain and sun protection, and can be used while flying the mizzen.
The main mast is farther forward on the ketch rig (2 ft ?). This allows me to store my 8' 6" dinghy on the cabin top for offshore work. I don't belive you could do this with the cutter rig.
The main boom does not extend over the cockpit as it does on the cutter, which is a saftey plus in case of an accidental jib.
Handling of the mizzen sail is a snap. In addition to the standard sails, a mizzen staysail and mizzen spinnaker could be flown from the ketch, if you really want to stay busy.
Here are the comparison working sail sizes for the cutter and ketch:
Cutter: Fore Triangle 232, Main 205, Total 437
Ketch: Fore Triangle 207, Main 165, Mizzen 66.5, Total 438.5
I final point in favor of the ketch is that it is a blow against the humdrum skyline of single masted, sloop rigged, plastic boats seen on most sailing days and at most marinas.
I bow to others to highlight the benefits of the cutter rig.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
This looks like a reasonable price for the boat you described.
I own a CD30 Ketch. Below I added a previous post describing some of it's virtues.
The next step is a survey. This will help find any major descrepancies that you haven't found. Should cost ~$300.00 and take at least 1/2 a day. In the last survey I had done the surveyor went up and down all the rigging with a magnifier and layed underneath the cockpit to observe the engine while it was running.
A new set of bluewater cruising sails including working jib and 155 genoa should run a little less than $3000.00 from a good local loft.
Why replace the Edson worm gear steering with a pedistal? That would be a downgrade, not an upgrade. I suspect that CD changed the installation in later years due to cost. I spoke with the Edson rep at the sailboat show in St Petersburg last month. There are Edson worm gear steering systems that have been in continuous service for over a hundred years.
The fiberglass problems you describe are within the realm of the handyman. Yard labor runs $45.00 per hour or more. Unless you take home pay is close, it pays to buy the tools and do the work yourself. Assuming you have the time.
Good Luck,
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
Below is a previous posting I submited.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Ketch or cutter? Good question. The cutter rig appears to be more popular. All the later year boats are cutters. All the listings I have seen for ketches are either 77's or 78's. Note that the hull is the same for either rig. The interior varies a bit by year, but not by rig. I purchased a ketch because of opportunity, cost, and timing (1977 CD30 #36). I liked the idea of a ketch rig, but was concerned that it might be a bit crowded in a 30 ft boat.
I can seat five comfortably in the cockpit, seven with some crowding. Without the mizzen mast I could probably fit one more. The mizzen mast and boom turn out to be good cockpit handholds in rough weather. The mast is just right as a handhold when coming up from the cabin. The mizzen shrouds and main split backstay are a little busy, but again provide good handholds. I have a cockpit awning that goes under the mizzen boom and provides good rain and sun protection, and can be used while flying the mizzen.
The main mast is farther forward on the ketch rig (2 ft ?). This allows me to store my 8' 6" dinghy on the cabin top for offshore work. I don't belive you could do this with the cutter rig.
The main boom does not extend over the cockpit as it does on the cutter, which is a saftey plus in case of an accidental jib.
Handling of the mizzen sail is a snap. In addition to the standard sails, a mizzen staysail and mizzen spinnaker could be flown from the ketch, if you really want to stay busy.
Here are the comparison working sail sizes for the cutter and ketch:
Cutter: Fore Triangle 232, Main 205, Total 437
Ketch: Fore Triangle 207, Main 165, Mizzen 66.5, Total 438.5
I final point in favor of the ketch is that it is a blow against the humdrum skyline of single masted, sloop rigged, plastic boats seen on most sailing days and at most marinas.
I bow to others to highlight the benefits of the cutter rig.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
-
Bob Pence
Re: Advice on purchase of CD30 Ketch ?
Don't know anything about the CD30K you are looking at but I would take the ketch over a cutter or sloop anyday, especially if you single hand. I had a 78 for 5 years and loved it. Raised the mizzen boom about 10" and tailored the mizzen to give enough room for 6'4" clearance. I could handle just about anything with staysail and mizzen. Also and drifter and mizzen staysail or drifter in light nylon that were fun with a steady wind on the beam or aft, if you had a good deck hand. Owned a Pearson 365 ketch for 6 years and felt the same way.I am in the market for a CD 30. I am new to CD's. I have a situation and I want to find out if it's a 'deal' or not. A '79 Ketch has come to my attention. She has orig sails, gelcoat ( in good but dull condition ), volvo diesel ( never re-built ) , standing rigging and interior. Gelcoat/structure seems good, but she has an ominous gelcoat crack 10" long at the 90 deg. joint where the forward deckhouse meets the deck ( the floor is not soft there yet ). Also, there is some sort of noticeable delam. going on in the cockpit floor under and near the old style 'sit-down, reverse-facing wooden wheel structure'. The boat could be bought for $15,000. I am handy, w/ some glass exper., but do not want to exceed an add'l $10,000 in repairs - overall. I would be willing to lay her up for up to (3) years to make her 'yare'.
Does it seem like a deal ? I was not looking for a ketch - how does it sail ? Is it more or less desired than a CD sloop or a cutter model ? Can the ketch be converted to a sloop or a cutter ( how and is ti expensive ? ) How much for a new suit of sails ( replacing present jib w/ a roller furling full jib ( presently there is no furling system ). How much to r/r the present wheel and put in a pedastal? Is the deck balsa core, or ply ? How about the top of deckhouse and hull ( balsa or any wood ? )
I do not want to be blinded by the lower than market price only to find out that I put more $$ and time into her than she's worth. Her orig ask was much higher - I low-balled my offer and the owner is eager to get out.
I do apologize for all the questions, but I do not trust brokers to give me the real picture; I would rather defer to people who know the boat and would give an unbiased opinion.
Thank you.
Alan Levy
sixpence@dmv.com