I have two projects to tackle next; beefing up the insulation in the ice box before installing the AB Cold Machine and installing the Navco YP500 linear drive auto pilot. I'd like more information before I start these tasks.
Has anyone installed/know anyone who has installed any of the "super insulation" from either Glacier Bay's BARRIER Ultra-R insulation panels ($$$$$$) or Heat Shield Marine Product's refrigerator liners ($$)? Are they worth the extra $$ or should I just run to Home Depot and get the DOW pink poly sheets? I have used a few cans of low expanding foam and sprayed all around the icebox through small holes I drilled through the box. I want to add more insulation on the inside of the box before adding refrigeration. My plan is to add some form of sheet insulation, most likely Heat Shield or poly to the inside of the box and then seal it all with Plexiglas and add new shelves and then install the holding plate.
The second project, installing the autopilot, has my mind spinning. The CD33 has the quadrant and the rudder post angled in a way that makes me wonder about the installation location of the hydraulic arm. The first obvious question I have: do I need an autopilot tiller arm on the rudderpost, or can I attach the hydraulic arm directly to the quadrant? Second question - where/how to mount the hydraulic arm… does anyone have experience with this? I am thinking about mounting a block on the "ceiling" of the engine compartment (the cockpit sole) and then mounting the Hydraulic arm base to the block. My reasoning is that I think this would give me the best angle of operation of the arm. Is my thinking sound here? Or what am I missing? Any input would be appreciated.
On a side note - the trip is going well so far. Ananda is at her last resting point, Lake Kentucky. Mid-January I'll start down the rest of the Tennessee and on to the Tenn-Tom and on to Mobil Bay. I'm planning an upgrade to the electrical (battery/charging) system while in Mobil before heading along the ICW to Apalachicola then an outside run to Tampa sometime in March then on to the Keys and beyond.
Rick@citycom.com
Ice box insulation and autopilot installation on a CD33
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: Ice box insulation and autopilot installation on a CD33
Rick,
I am in the middle of planning to do the icebox on my 36. Check out the web side www.glacierbay.com. Specifically look at the section on test data. I have some reservations about Heat Shield marine's product being able to achieve the desired R value when the method of evacuating the pannel is by sucking on a straw. Perhaps if a vacuum pump were used a reliable R value could be achieved. One of the problems of foam cored vacuum panels is that if the foam out-gasses over time the vacuum is lost and the R value goes down. The Glacier bay people claim to have a 'scouring agent' which maintains the vacuum. Unfortuneatly the cost of the Glacier Bay pannels is very high. I think a glacier bay box would end up costing me over $3k, not including my labor.
There are two drawbacks to foam sheets. Their R value goes down as they absorb moisture. In fact it can be cut in half over the years. As I understand it, if you buy the EXTRUDED form of the foam it will not absorb a significant amount of moisture. The other drawback of foam sheets is that they take up lots of space for a high R-value. If you do not have a space problem then you are not on a boat. How much is a few cubic feet of frige space worth? I think that it could be worth a fair amount.
Here is what I am thinking for my boat. I would like a very good R-value so that I do not become a slave to the refrigeration unit. My current box is very poorly insulated. I will buy one Glacier Bay pannel for the side against the engine compartment. The R value is high and that is the side with the greatest temperature. I will put 1/2 inch of foam on each side of this pannel as a buffer in case someone (me) drives a screw through the adjacent surface. Since this is a large area the volume savings will be worth it. All other surfaces will get 5 or 6 inches of foam with the exception of the top. The top will get a little less because cold flat surfaces do not loose as much heat from their upper surface as a vertical surface will. I am going to pay careful attention to the drain. Aparently lots of cold air can flow out of a fridge drain. A trap is in order here.
Once I get the old cabinetry removed I will decide if the available space will allow for the full 6 inches of foam. If not, then compromise will be in order. I wish I could afford the Glacier Bay panels all over. Now I just have to get up the courage to remove the old cabinetry.
I still have not decided on the finish for the interior surface.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I am in the middle of planning to do the icebox on my 36. Check out the web side www.glacierbay.com. Specifically look at the section on test data. I have some reservations about Heat Shield marine's product being able to achieve the desired R value when the method of evacuating the pannel is by sucking on a straw. Perhaps if a vacuum pump were used a reliable R value could be achieved. One of the problems of foam cored vacuum panels is that if the foam out-gasses over time the vacuum is lost and the R value goes down. The Glacier bay people claim to have a 'scouring agent' which maintains the vacuum. Unfortuneatly the cost of the Glacier Bay pannels is very high. I think a glacier bay box would end up costing me over $3k, not including my labor.
There are two drawbacks to foam sheets. Their R value goes down as they absorb moisture. In fact it can be cut in half over the years. As I understand it, if you buy the EXTRUDED form of the foam it will not absorb a significant amount of moisture. The other drawback of foam sheets is that they take up lots of space for a high R-value. If you do not have a space problem then you are not on a boat. How much is a few cubic feet of frige space worth? I think that it could be worth a fair amount.
Here is what I am thinking for my boat. I would like a very good R-value so that I do not become a slave to the refrigeration unit. My current box is very poorly insulated. I will buy one Glacier Bay pannel for the side against the engine compartment. The R value is high and that is the side with the greatest temperature. I will put 1/2 inch of foam on each side of this pannel as a buffer in case someone (me) drives a screw through the adjacent surface. Since this is a large area the volume savings will be worth it. All other surfaces will get 5 or 6 inches of foam with the exception of the top. The top will get a little less because cold flat surfaces do not loose as much heat from their upper surface as a vertical surface will. I am going to pay careful attention to the drain. Aparently lots of cold air can flow out of a fridge drain. A trap is in order here.
Once I get the old cabinetry removed I will decide if the available space will allow for the full 6 inches of foam. If not, then compromise will be in order. I wish I could afford the Glacier Bay panels all over. Now I just have to get up the courage to remove the old cabinetry.
I still have not decided on the finish for the interior surface.
Matt
I have two projects to tackle next; beefing up the insulation in the ice box before installing the AB Cold Machine and installing the Navco YP500 linear drive auto pilot. I'd like more information before I start these tasks.
Has anyone installed/know anyone who has installed any of the "super insulation" from either Glacier Bay's BARRIER Ultra-R insulation panels ($$$$$$) or Heat Shield Marine Product's refrigerator liners ($$)? Are they worth the extra $$ or should I just run to Home Depot and get the DOW pink poly sheets? I have used a few cans of low expanding foam and sprayed all around the icebox through small holes I drilled through the box. I want to add more insulation on the inside of the box before adding refrigeration. My plan is to add some form of sheet insulation, most likely Heat Shield or poly to the inside of the box and then seal it all with Plexiglas and add new shelves and then install the holding plate.
The second project, installing the autopilot, has my mind spinning. The CD33 has the quadrant and the rudder post angled in a way that makes me wonder about the installation location of the hydraulic arm. The first obvious question I have: do I need an autopilot tiller arm on the rudderpost, or can I attach the hydraulic arm directly to the quadrant? Second question - where/how to mount the hydraulic arm… does anyone have experience with this? I am thinking about mounting a block on the "ceiling" of the engine compartment (the cockpit sole) and then mounting the Hydraulic arm base to the block. My reasoning is that I think this would give me the best angle of operation of the arm. Is my thinking sound here? Or what am I missing? Any input would be appreciated.
On a side note - the trip is going well so far. Ananda is at her last resting point, Lake Kentucky. Mid-January I'll start down the rest of the Tennessee and on to the Tenn-Tom and on to Mobil Bay. I'm planning an upgrade to the electrical (battery/charging) system while in Mobil before heading along the ICW to Apalachicola then an outside run to Tampa sometime in March then on to the Keys and beyond.
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
-
Chuck Carmichael
Re: Ice box insulation and autopilot installation on a CD33
Hi Rick;
I have a Cape Dory 36 in which I installed an Alpha Marine Systems linear drive auto pilot. My drive unit extends roughly 36 inches when it is in a hard over position. To accomodate the size of my unit, I extended a shelf in the port cockpit locker which now accomodates the linear drive, water heater and Adler Barbour compressor. I cut a hole through partition between the port locker and the engine compartment to connect the drive unit with the rudder stock. Alpha was fairly insistant about using a separate tiller arm which is about 16-18" long. Your manufacturer should be contacted about the advisability of the arm. I mounted the tiller arm below the CD quadrant. My concern about trying to mount the drive unit to the quadrant is that it may result in fast steering due to the short radius and the additional torque requirement.I had to drill a set screw into the back of the rudder stock to mount the tiller arm. You'll need a right angle drill and short bit to work in the tight confines of the 33 or 36 rudder post.
I have yet to face the re-insulation of the ice box. I've looked at it alot but that's as far as it goes. Good luck.
Chuck
crcgalatea@home.net
I have a Cape Dory 36 in which I installed an Alpha Marine Systems linear drive auto pilot. My drive unit extends roughly 36 inches when it is in a hard over position. To accomodate the size of my unit, I extended a shelf in the port cockpit locker which now accomodates the linear drive, water heater and Adler Barbour compressor. I cut a hole through partition between the port locker and the engine compartment to connect the drive unit with the rudder stock. Alpha was fairly insistant about using a separate tiller arm which is about 16-18" long. Your manufacturer should be contacted about the advisability of the arm. I mounted the tiller arm below the CD quadrant. My concern about trying to mount the drive unit to the quadrant is that it may result in fast steering due to the short radius and the additional torque requirement.I had to drill a set screw into the back of the rudder stock to mount the tiller arm. You'll need a right angle drill and short bit to work in the tight confines of the 33 or 36 rudder post.
I have yet to face the re-insulation of the ice box. I've looked at it alot but that's as far as it goes. Good luck.
Chuck
crcgalatea@home.net