Question regarding a new head.

Breault5 · Post by **Breault5** » Mar 13th, '08, 20:26

I need to replace the Groco HF head in my cd30. I think I'm going to replace with the same. Does anyone have any bad experiences with the Groco HF? Should I consider another head? I like the HF because its a good fit and good price, but since this boat is new to me I have not had a chance to see how it performs.

Also, the current set-up does not have an overboard discharge. Since Halia is currently out of the water, its a good time to add a new thru hull for this purpose. I was wondering, if anyone out there could tell me the best place to add the new 1-1/2" seacock. The intake is located just to the right of the head and there does not seem to be enough room to the left side to add the new seacock. I thought about installing it under the port settee forward of the water tank. Has anyone seen this arrangement? Or should I just squeeze it in to the left side? The other thought was to install it in the hanging locker behind the head, but I think it would be too close to the waterline. Any comments would be appreciated...Fair Sailing To All! Dave Breault

Breault5 · Post by **Breault5** » Mar 13th, '08, 20:34

Halia is a 1981 cd 30 with the conventional set up...head is on the port side.

Brian2 · Post by **Brian2** » Mar 13th, '08, 21:34

On our CD 28, the direct overboard discharge goes to a vented loop up the hull behind the head (inside of a hanging locker), down again and forward to a discharge under the port vee berth.

Sea Hunt · Post by **Sea Hunt** » Mar 13th, '08, 21:56

A somewhat related question (I think):

I recently looked at a CD that had a newly installed Jabsco head on the port side just aft of the V berth. There was also an older holding tank that was not OEM installed in the forward V berth below the portside berth. It was affixed with home shelving "L brackets". There was a discharge hose but no "Y valve" for pumping out the holding tank from an on deck access.

I understand the "theory" of overboard discharge when 3 miles offshore (as a scuba diver I do no like this practice but that is an argument for another day). However, I thought the USCG now required a "Y valve" for every boat with a marine head (versus a porta potty). I assume I am wrong about this. I tried accessing the USCG website regulations on this but quickly acquired an Excedrin headache

So, is a "Y valve" for pump required by the USCG on all boats with a holding tank

hmeyrick · Post by **hmeyrick** » Mar 13th, '08, 22:08

Dave-

My 30 has the discharge forward of the port water tank, like you were thinking. Since I sail in the Great Lakes, I have never used the discharge, but I imagine it works well enough. One thing that I can tell you about that set-up, though, is that the sea-cock and hose take up most of the usable space in that little under-settee locker, which is kind of a shame. Personally, I think I would have preferred it had the previous owner come up with some other arrangement.

Best of luck however you choose to set it up

Tom in Cambria · Post by **Tom in Cambria** » Mar 13th, '08, 23:07

Generally the head discharges into a holding tank and there is no Y valve needed. A Y valve is installed so that when you're offshore you can throw the valve and pump directly overboard so that you don't fill up the holding tank when you can't pump it. I think the Coast Guard prefers that you flush into a holding tank and you don't have any overboard discharge and therefore don't need a Y valve, but if you're going offshore they allow you to pump overboard outside of three miles as long as you can throw the valve and wire it in the holding tank position when you're in port. I use a big plastic wire tie to "wire" it in the holding tank position and than seems to satisfy them.

Sea Hunt · Post by **Sea Hunt** » Mar 14th, '08, 05:07

Tom:

My question was not clear. I apologize.

On this CD there was no pump out hose or pump out access on deck. There was a water intake hose (water to flush), a hose from the head to the holding tank and then a hose (with a valve) from the holding tank to a thru hull fitting for overboard discharge.

I could not see any way to pump out the holding tank except overboard discharge. This is what I thought was not acceptable to the Coast Guard (and, as a diver, not acceptable to me either

)

If a boat has a marine head and holding tank (versus a porta potty), are you required to have a pump out hose for your holding tank or is it "optional"

P.S. I'll be out on the water today.

Very calm seas (low winds) expected so I'm taking a small group of divers to explore some reefs and admire the "fishees"

Neil Gordon · Post by **Neil Gordon** » Mar 14th, '08, 08:06

If the in and out seacocks would be too close together, consider moving the intake further forward and using the existing hole (expanded is necessary) for the outflow.

Bill Goldsmith · Post by **Bill Goldsmith** » Mar 14th, '08, 09:35

Dave,

I am about to rebed my 1 1/2" holding tank discharge seacock with a new vinylester fiberglass backing plate. I plan to cut the plate out of stock glass sheet this weekend. I got the idea from posts on this board. PM me if you would like me to cut one out for you while I am at it.

cbrenton · Post by **cbrenton** » Mar 14th, '08, 16:01

I used the Grocco HF for 12 years. During that time I replaced it once and rebuilt it twice. I calculated that if we were living aboard full time, the head would have to be rebuilt every year. I would never tolerate such a device in my own home. Servicing the unit is unpleasant and tedious. The parts in the rebuilt kit are straight out of Mickey Mouse and the kit is not cheap.

Last season, I installed a Lavac Popular. The basic unit has no moving parts. It is evacuated by rugged pump mounted externally on a bulkhead. It is sturdily built- essentially a big bilge pump. If it fails, all parts are easily accessible to service. I have only used it one season, but I am very impressed.

Charlie Brenton
"Carol Anne"
CD 33

Michael Heintz · Post by **Michael Heintz** » Mar 15th, '08, 09:24

I too am thinking of replacing the Groco HF.

The thread seems more about the discharge. I'd like to hear more about recommendations on the replacement of the Groco.

Thanks,

K_LeMans · Post by **K_LeMans** » Mar 15th, '08, 09:53

I've got a Groco HF on my 1981 CD30 that has served pretty much without incident for the 9 years that I've owned the boat. I re-built it once, but once disassembled, I found that there wasn't really anything wrong with any of the parts. Salt crystals can build up on the joker valve (from urine, results in backflow into the bowl), but pouring a quart of vinegar through the system every once in awhile can take care of that. A little vegetable oil in the bowl will lubricate the pump seals.

On my 30, the discharge/holding system works like this: The head discharges into a vented loop inside the hanging locker behind the head. From there, the hose leads directly to the holding tank under the v-berth. The outlet hose from the holding tank goes to a 'Y' valve that can be set to discharge either to the deck fitting, or to a diaphram pump that then discharges through a second vented loop to a seacock/thru-hull located again in the hanging locker behind the head. My understanding is that this conforms to USCG regs., the boat has been inspected (boarded!) by the coasties before and there was no comment on the setup.

Steve Laume · Post by **Steve Laume** » Mar 15th, '08, 09:53

Yup, been there. First I searched around for a bronze base instead of the plastic on the old Grocos. Then rebuilt the thing and eventually, bought the new updated one. The old ones develop minor cracks in the pump flanges I believe it was. The bolt pattern was very slightly different on the new one. I cut a small inspection plate in the area just aft of the head so I could get my hand under there and through bolt the new one in. The original head was secured with lag bolts. The last thing I wanted was for my head to come lose and start banging around.

The overboard discharge, Y valve, vented loop and seacock on my boat is inside the hanging locker. The discharge is just below the waterline. I can't imagine you would want it in another part of the boat not near to the head itself.

I am all for rebuilding things but I believe it pays to get a new head every 20 years or so, Steve.

jerryaxler · Post by **jerryaxler** » Mar 15th, '08, 09:58

Michael,
What is the reason for replacing the Groco HF? It is easier and less expensive to rebuild the head. Most of my problems over the years has been from calcium deposits in the hosing that eventually cause a clog. Replacing most of the parts on the Groco are fairly simple, but do require the usual stinky mess. The valve and valve spring have been replaced three times in 21 years and the joker valve I replaced after 20 years of use due to calcium deposits causing a malfunction. I even replaced the pump assembly once because the leather wore out.
But, the worse job of all is replacing those big hoses on such a short run. They just don't want to go around bends,

Breault5 · Post by **Breault5** » Mar 15th, '08, 11:12

The reason for me wanting to replace the HF is the pump has a crack in it and leaks some nasty stuff. If you factor in the cost of the new pump along with the rebuild kit, to me it makes sense to pay the $239.00 for a whole new unit.

As far as the discharge located in the wet locker behind the head, and this location is higher than the intake, I have been concerned with sucking up waste as I pump the head. I assume since reading these posts, this should not be an issue???

Thanks again guys. This board is awesome! It makes me feel good that I bought a Cape Dory....Dave

The Cape Dory Board

Question regarding a new head.

Question regarding a new head.

Forgot to mention.

Y valve

Backing Plates

Groco HF

Groco HF and Discharge Configuration

replacement of Groco HF

Replacement Head