Looked at a CD 30 and CD 31 (both 83's) this weekend. The fiberglass on the forward starboard corners of both boats's cockpit soles were badly cracked, soft and wet to step on. Also there was crazing in the fiberglass on the decks of both boats.
Is this common with CD's? 100% of the boats I've seen have the cockpit problem.
What is the preferred method of dealing with the cockpit sole?
wildsculpt@main.nc.us
Cockpit sole
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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John Baker
Re: Cockpit sole
We have a CD31 1984. There is crazing of the gelcoat in the cockpit sole. I do not think there is any water intrusion. I watch for chips or larger cracks in the gelcoat and repair tham as they arise. So far no problemsLooked at a CD 30 and CD 31 (both 83's) this weekend. The fiberglass on the forward starboard corners of both boats's cockpit soles were badly cracked, soft and wet to step on. Also there was crazing in the fiberglass on the decks of both boats.
Is this common with CD's? 100% of the boats I've seen have the cockpit problem.
What is the preferred method of dealing with the cockpit sole?
John and Micaela Baker
Solana CD31 #31
micaelaf@earthlink.net
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Tom
Re: Cockpit sole
I don't know if there is a "preferred" method, but when I bought my 31 (1984 no. 15) the surveryor suggested two possible cures. One was to put aluminum I beans under the cockpit sole to stiffen it up. The other was to put in a teak sole on top of the existing fg cockpit sole. I opted for the second choice. After removing the pedestal, emergency tiller plate, holding tank pump out fittings etc. the shipwright made a plywood pattern of the sole and took it back to his shop. On top of that plywood pattern he constructed a sole of 2 x 2 teak (what the carpenters call 8-by because they work in quarter inches.) It was screwed from below the plywood. The whole works was taken to the boat on the plywood and then transferred to the cockpit sole piece by piece. Once it was fastened down the seams were routed out and then payed with Detco. A very traditional look and it solved the crazing problem. While I was at it I put a hatch in the sole forward of the pedestal. It's not big enough to crawl through but gives air and light below when you're working below and you can talk to the people above and have them hand you tools and so on. It's been eleven years now and I can't remember what it cost, but it seems to me it was around $ 2,000. when all was said and done and I hired it all out. If you decide to go this route write me directly and I can give you a few little tips that will help and what I would do differently if I were doing it again. Mainly it's a question of stiffening the sole so it can't work and tweak the corners. There's no balsa core in the sole that I remember but I've read of balsa cored soles here on our BB so some may have had them.Looked at a CD 30 and CD 31 (both 83's) this weekend. The fiberglass on the forward starboard corners of both boats's cockpit soles were badly cracked, soft and wet to step on. Also there was crazing in the fiberglass on the decks of both boats.
Is this common with CD's? 100% of the boats I've seen have the cockpit problem.
What is the preferred method of dealing with the cockpit sole?
There are extensive postings on deck cracks in the archives here on our board. As far as I know no one has the definitive cure to them, but they should be tended to and not ignored and in general they aren't serious.
TomCambria@mindspring.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: Cockpit sole
Ron,
Our 83 CD30 had the crazing problem around the scuppers in the cockpit sole's forward area. I thought it was just crazing, and decided to watch it for a few years, while trying to figure a way to seal those cracks against water intrusion. Well, turns out that Cape Dory had some real problems (apparently) with waterproofing their cockpit mounted equipment.
After watching our sole problem for a few years, it was obvious that the cracks (were crazes) were getting worse, the floor was getting mushier, and my confidence in my original decision to do nothing faded to black.
We tore the top layer of fiberglass sole out completely (by inscribing a cut around the extreme boundary of the cockpit sole, in that little dip that goes around the edge). We found that the 1 inch plywood coring was black gooey mulch. There was no wood left at all! It was removed with turpentine and a putty knife!!
Cape Dory did not bed the compass and steering binacle well..or at all-could not tell from the looks of it. Water intruded the coring, causing it to swell, making the upper fiberglass panel subject to uneven loading when someone walked or even jumped down in the cockpit. There was also no or very little bedding under the emergency tiller plate, allowing water to get in.
We had the shop replace the plywood (being certain to specify that closed cell foam must be used for the outside 1 inch around the perimeter, so as to not create a hard spot in the fiberglass floor at the transition between wood and no-wood), and then remount the binacle and the emergency tiller access plate..all properly bedded.
This work cost us $3000, and we did a lot of it ourselves.
This occured 5 years ago approximately, and to this date, there is no crazing in the fiberglass cockpit..anywhere.
I believe that putting in a teak grate to solve this problem is simply deferring this problem. Especially poor is the idea of setting that teak grate on plywood, and then putting that buildup ontop of the cockpit sole. First, it traps moisture between the ply and the fiberglass sole..never to dry out properly, which leads to rot and smell. If you are in a freezing area, that could really cause problems I suspect.
If you already have crazing and/or cracks, I would find out why, what damage is already present, then fix it. The cockpit could use a bit of stiffening applied to the underside..simply epoxied in place would work well. I am going to experiment with Captain Tolly's Creeping Crack Cure (I know, sounds like a real bottle of snake oil) this summer, on some crazing in front of the coach house corners, where they meet the deck. They are definitely just crazes now ( I have checked them out), but will get worse as time goes by unless cared for. How well Captain Tolly's fix works is still unclear to me.
Good Luck, and I hope this helped a bit,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
Our 83 CD30 had the crazing problem around the scuppers in the cockpit sole's forward area. I thought it was just crazing, and decided to watch it for a few years, while trying to figure a way to seal those cracks against water intrusion. Well, turns out that Cape Dory had some real problems (apparently) with waterproofing their cockpit mounted equipment.
After watching our sole problem for a few years, it was obvious that the cracks (were crazes) were getting worse, the floor was getting mushier, and my confidence in my original decision to do nothing faded to black.
We tore the top layer of fiberglass sole out completely (by inscribing a cut around the extreme boundary of the cockpit sole, in that little dip that goes around the edge). We found that the 1 inch plywood coring was black gooey mulch. There was no wood left at all! It was removed with turpentine and a putty knife!!
Cape Dory did not bed the compass and steering binacle well..or at all-could not tell from the looks of it. Water intruded the coring, causing it to swell, making the upper fiberglass panel subject to uneven loading when someone walked or even jumped down in the cockpit. There was also no or very little bedding under the emergency tiller plate, allowing water to get in.
We had the shop replace the plywood (being certain to specify that closed cell foam must be used for the outside 1 inch around the perimeter, so as to not create a hard spot in the fiberglass floor at the transition between wood and no-wood), and then remount the binacle and the emergency tiller access plate..all properly bedded.
This work cost us $3000, and we did a lot of it ourselves.
This occured 5 years ago approximately, and to this date, there is no crazing in the fiberglass cockpit..anywhere.
I believe that putting in a teak grate to solve this problem is simply deferring this problem. Especially poor is the idea of setting that teak grate on plywood, and then putting that buildup ontop of the cockpit sole. First, it traps moisture between the ply and the fiberglass sole..never to dry out properly, which leads to rot and smell. If you are in a freezing area, that could really cause problems I suspect.
If you already have crazing and/or cracks, I would find out why, what damage is already present, then fix it. The cockpit could use a bit of stiffening applied to the underside..simply epoxied in place would work well. I am going to experiment with Captain Tolly's Creeping Crack Cure (I know, sounds like a real bottle of snake oil) this summer, on some crazing in front of the coach house corners, where they meet the deck. They are definitely just crazes now ( I have checked them out), but will get worse as time goes by unless cared for. How well Captain Tolly's fix works is still unclear to me.
Good Luck, and I hope this helped a bit,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior
Looked at a CD 30 and CD 31 (both 83's) this weekend. The fiberglass on the forward starboard corners of both boats's cockpit soles were badly cracked, soft and wet to step on. Also there was crazing in the fiberglass on the decks of both boats.
Is this common with CD's? 100% of the boats I've seen have the cockpit problem.
What is the preferred method of dealing with the cockpit sole?
demers@sgi.com
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Tom
Re: Cockpit sole
I second Larry's opinion about a grate as the cockpit sole. All the things he said plus they are a bitch to keep a finish on. Mine is a solid floor with no little squares to trap everything including water (which is what you're trying to get away from.) Mine did not have any pulpiness, soft spots or water oozing when I started, just surface crazing, so I had a good platform to build on. Good luckk - big project!Looked at a CD 30 and CD 31 (both 83's) this weekend. The fiberglass on the forward starboard corners of both boats's cockpit soles were badly cracked, soft and wet to step on. Also there was crazing in the fiberglass on the decks of both boats.
Is this common with CD's? 100% of the boats I've seen have the cockpit problem.
What is the preferred method of dealing with the cockpit sole?
TomCambria@mindspring.com
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Russell Johnson
Re: Cockpit sole
JUST BOUGHT A CD31, 1985 WITH MANY CRACKS ALONG THE DECKS OUTSIDE THE COCKPIT AND SOME INSIDE THE COCKPIT. I HAD A NAVAL ARCHITECT CHECK THEM OUT - WE DID SEVERAL CORE SAMPLES - HE SAID THE LAST LAYERS OF GLASS WERE LAID "RESIN" RICH - IE TOO MUCH RESIN - THE RESIN WAS TOO THICK TO PROPERLY EMBED THE MESH/CLOTH. LUCKILY THE CRACKS DID NOT EXTEND TO THE CORE AND WE FOUND NO ROTTED WOOD - ALSO THE DECKS AND COCKPIT WERE NOT SPONGY OR SOFT IN ANY LOCATION. BEFORE YOU BUY, YOU MIGHT COULD TRY THE CORE SAMPLES, SMALL HOLES CUT VERY SLOWLY, ANALYZING EACH LAYER AS YOU GO, YOU WILL HAVE TO IMMEDIATELY RESEAL THE HOLES TO PROTECT FROM WATER INTRUSION.
BEST OF LUCK
RUSSELL
rajarch@bellsouth.net
BEST OF LUCK
RUSSELL
Looked at a CD 30 and CD 31 (both 83's) this weekend. The fiberglass on the forward starboard corners of both boats's cockpit soles were badly cracked, soft and wet to step on. Also there was crazing in the fiberglass on the decks of both boats.
Is this common with CD's? 100% of the boats I've seen have the cockpit problem.
What is the preferred method of dealing with the cockpit sole?
rajarch@bellsouth.net
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John
Re: Cockpit sole
Our '83 CD30 has no crazes or cracks in the cockpit sole anywhere. In fact, she even has a teak hatch forward of the steering pedestal that we custom built for her about 8 years ago. The hatch is the full size of where the non-skid surface was. That is a large opening and still no crazing or cracks. I don't think it's a strength issue but more as others have noted. At the factory either a poor gelcoat mix or poor bedding on hardware was done that allowed the core to become wet and spongy.Looked at a CD 30 and CD 31 (both 83's) this weekend. The fiberglass on the forward starboard corners of both boats's cockpit soles were badly cracked, soft and wet to step on. Also there was crazing in the fiberglass on the decks of both boats.
Is this common with CD's? 100% of the boats I've seen have the cockpit problem.
What is the preferred method of dealing with the cockpit sole?
I do have crazing in two areas (short crazes about 3/4" long) on port and starboard decks forward of the cockpit. Upon close inspection it is obvious it is not structural but merely a drying out/shrinkage of the gelcoat. I have a lot of the small crazes. I am not going to grind them out, I intend to try a different approach by tinting epoxy and forcing into the narrow voids that exist after scrubing them out with acetone. Being that epoxy stays more flexible than polyester I want to see how long the mix will stay adhered into the small crazes compared to polyester. I think the acetone wash will give extra tooth for the epoxy to adhere to the polyester. I have never seen any "polyester" gel repairs that have not eventually broken loose and then it is more unsightly because the crazes were enlarged prior to repairing.
If you have crazes at the forward corners of the sole then I would highly suspect seepage around the scupper bedding. The preferred method on the sole of the boats you mentioned is to move on to other vessels spend your money elsewhere.