cape horn self steering

[lubeckmaine]

I'm looking for someone - perhaps the owner of CD 36 Tumbleweed - with knowledge of Cape Horn self steering. Before I stumbled into a CD36 with a Cape Horn gear, I was convinced the Monitor was the only gear to have. I was doubly thrilled to see photos of an installation on Tumbleweed that the good folks at Robin Hood provided. In particular, I'd like to hear more about the pulley system installed between the two quadrants. I'm concerned about the space considerations in the lazarette, which is currently occupied by a propane tank.

[Evergreen]

Hello:

Next year we will be getting a steering vane for our CD 36.

We also would like to hear some input from those with experience with the Cape Horn steering system.

Many cruisers seem to have and like the Monitor systems, however, since we have a classic boat we were intrigued by the simplicity of the Cape Horn system - we thought a classic boat would look better with a Cape Horn system.

So we wanted to know how well built and reliable the Cape Horn systems were. Do they hold up in the long run and are they durable.

Any input would be very much appreciated.

Thanks, Philip & Sharon

[lubeckmaine]

Phillip and Sharon

The following is a response from Cape Horn to my Dec 18 e-mail in which I included a photo of the Diapensia's transom. Once a decision is made, and I'm very close, I shall definitely move the ladder.

The decision is close because, as you mentioned, the Cape Horn is simple. I like the design of internal bracing and the fact the autopilot draws less power as it works with the mechanical advantage of the vane and servo oar, in addition to being located out of the weather.

I think the biggest hump to get over is putting that huge hole in the stern, but this may be merely a psychological hurdle. An installation I examined on a CS36 was impressive. As for the performance, the website is fairly convincing. I too would like to hear from CD36 owners with tales of wonder. I agree, it's hard to envision the bulk of the Monitor on a CD stern.

Here's the text of the e-mail:

Dear James :
 
Thanks for your interest in the CapeHorn Self-Steering. 
 
Our database reveals that we have built two CapeHorn Jean-du-Sud self-steering gears for the Cape Dory 36.  Its basic cost is $3460.  (US or CA, both currencies are close enough). 
 
The picture you have sent shows a ladder on the transom.  To install the CapeHorn, you will have the choice between offsetting the ladder or the self-steering gear.  Since there does not seem to be an opening in the stern rail, I would suggest to offset the ladder and install the self-steering gear close to the centerline, but if you do not want to move the ladder, it is also possible to offset the gear.  The only effect on performance an offset installation has would be that on one tack, when beating,  the gear would not be able to steer as close to the wind when the vane is on the leeward side,because the wind received by the vane will be deflected by the close-hauled sheet.  As soon as the sheet is eased, and on the other tack, the problem disappears.  We have done this on hundreds of boats and their owners do not mind this, as it very seldom happens that they have to beat very close to the wind on a long passage.
 
If you want to know more, please do not hesitate to contact me again.
 
Fair winds,
 
Yves Gélinas

[Evergreen]

Unfortunately "Tumbleweed" is for sale on Yachtworld.com so we may never hear from the previous owner about his vanes performance.

Are there any other Cape Dory folks (regardless of boat size) out there who have any input on the performance and durability of the Cape Horn Vane steering systems?????

[John Vigor]

If you don't want to make a large hole in your counter, you might also want to checkout the German Windpilot self-steering system. At least two of us have the smaller models on our CD27s, and there are thousands of boats using the bigger models for ocean crossings.

http://www.windpilot.de

Click on the American flag at the bottom and go to Products, etc.

The engineering is excellent, delivery by air very prompt, and after-service also excellent.

John Vigor

[Paul D.]

One thing I like about the Cape Horn is that it was designed and built by the owner especially for his Alberg 30. The Alberg 30 is such a similar hull shape as most of our Cape Dory's being albergs, that it could be that this design would work better with our heavy displacement, full keel and attached rudders. That is not to say other gear would not work as well.

One thing that is a plus and minus with Cape Horn is that it is a two man show and when they stop building them who would take up creating the parts? My sense is though, since these guys have dedicated their work lives to building the gear, they would think of that and a Canadian company would take it up or they would have detailed enough drawings for owners to get their own parts made.

I have always been intriqued by the Cape Horn self-steering gear.
Paul

[Andy Denmark]

In years past I have delivered two boats with Cape Horn vanes: a Bristol 30 and a Pearson 35 (I think?). The vanes on both of these performed flawlessly. The Bristol was a delivery north up the Gulf Stream to Cape Henry (around Hatteras -- like a mill pond that day!) and the Pearson was from Annapolis down the Chesapeake to Charleston (used the vane only in the Chesapeake Bay).

On the Bristol delivery we were beam-to-broad reaching most of the way with some dead down (where we had no choice). I was impressed that the vane held course with a minimum of flip-flopping, the nemesis of offwind sailing with self-steering. It helped to keep the wind slightly to one side, though, and that was not inconvenient as we were essentially tacking downwind anyway.

I don't remember much about the Pearson delivery -- after all it was nearly 20 years ago. I don't recall much except it worked well and nothing remarkable took place.

Considering that it works quite well -- at least as good or better than any of the others I've sailed with -- the aesthetics of the thing are superior to anything else I've seen. On a small boat the mounting framework of the other vanes really messes up the appearance of the boat. Most of them look like an explosion in a tubing factory and it's all attached to your stern. Which brings up an especially important consideration that seems more prevalent with Cape Dories -- their performance is extremely sensitive to weight in the stern. The Cape Horn is considerable lighter than any of the others, whose superstructure hangs well off the back and therefore works through a longer lever arm, thus multiplying the effects of their weight.

In about a year I will be transporting Rhiannon to the Seattle/Anacortes area and a Cape Horn vane is on the list of additions prior to that trip. Compared to NC there is a lot of open water in the area behind & north of Vancouver Island and because of the long runs between destinations I see a lot of single handing during my summer visits. Considering that my daughter's family will be sailing Rhiannon means that simplicity is pretty important and I think the Cape Horn has it hands down in that regard.

All that said, I chased down the vane that John Vigor likes and would strongly consider it. For the price it really looks good. I wonder, John, does the lady in the sarong (pictures area) come help install it? That would be a terrific sales incentive.

Ahem --

P.S. John -- I still need to reciprocate with food and drink for the pleasant (rainy) afternoon we spent talking boats in the pub at Coupeville. Next time out.
________
RHODE ISLAND MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES

[John Vigor]

Andy, I like the Aries best, for its strength and ease of adjustment. You can change the angle of the wind vane from the middle of the cabin if you want just by pulling on two long strings. In fact, I bought an Aries for my CD27 but at near 90 pounds it was just too heavy, so I sold it and got the much lighter Windpilot Pacific (not the smallest model). It's a bit trickier to adjust the windvane (not that you have to do it every five minutes) but it works just as well in every other respect and it attaches without any piping at all, just four bolts through the transom. Another nice feature is the way you can so easily swing the paddle upright, out of the water, when it's not in use.

Funny you should ask about the lady in the sarong, or almost in the sarong. She caught Carter Brey's attention, too, though I don't think she sold him a Windpilot. Don't know what she sold him, actually.

Yes, Toby's pub in Coupeville, on Whidbey Island, would be a good place to meet up again. One of these days.

Cheers,

John V.

[chase]

This is a great thread, Yves needs to retool his marketing a bit. Like Paul and others I like the Cape Horn for it's clean profile and weight and that it was designed for the Alberg. I notice the CD 30 in the For Sale section has a Cape Horn installed, would love to hear their experience since it covered Hawaii to Texas at least.

A huge investment, for sure.

Chase

[Greg Kozlowski]

Agree with John Vigor on the Aries being the best. I have not sailed much with other vane systems, but the Aries on our CD36 has steered in abominable conditions without fail 24/7 for weeks at sea.

It is tough, reliable and very easy to adjust from the safety of the companionway.

[lubeckmaine]

As far as I could tell the Aries web site paled against the Cape Horn site, which has a wealth of detail. This reflects the genius of the Cape Horn. I did get a very favorable response from Tumbleweed in terms of Cape Horn installation and performance. It's interesting, however, to hear the weight on the stern concerns, the Aries being aluminum. There just seems to be less Cape Horn, less bulk, not like an oil rig Monitor or Aries. The tube is quite short which minimizes bracing. Performance really comes down to understanding how to balance the sail with just the right pinch of weather helm. It's been told the vane can be a great teacher. Greg, presumably the Aries adjusts with control lines to a pair of cams led to the cockpit as in the Cape Horn?

[Greg Kozlowski]

The control lines tie into rachets port and starboard on the Aries unit which adjust the vane control gear in graded increments. As John Vigor has noted, these lines can be led directly into the cabin to control the boat's heading and are extremely easy to use. Have a look at the exploded diagram on the Aries site.

The Aries is an incredibly strong gear. It has steered our boat in severe gale conditions while running down very large waves beyond hull speed. It has also stood up to the nastiness of waves washing over the cockpit...conditions which made it dangerous to be steering by hand.

I can not recommend this vane more highly, especially for a CD36.

Greg

[rwarvin]

i have a cape horn wind vane on my cd30 and it works flawlessly easy to use sailed from honolulu to maui and back in 30 ft swells the best for the money.

[Bruce Dart]

This is addressed to the owner of the CD30 in Hawaii. If this is the CD30 with the Cape Horn windvane that came over from Long Beach several years ago it's not connected to the steering quadrant, but has control lines running through blocks to the wheel like the Monitor. One of the charms of the Cape Horn for me is that you don't have to cope with lines running across the cockpit. What's your experience.

Thanks.

[rwarvin]

yes thats how its rigged it has worked great for me, all though the lines do get in the way as you said the lines do run through the cockpit to the wheel this cd30 as worm gear steering