Galley Retrofit--Alcohol to Propane

[Geoff Safron]

Ahoy there!

Just acquired a '78 CD30, with the wimpy (and potentially dangerous) alcohol range and oven. I've been told that propane is the way to go. Anybody out there go through this? Any makes/models to suggest? Did you do the retrofit yourself? $$??

Thanks for any help!

Geoff Safron, reachable at Lsafron@AOL

P.S. Special thanks to Neil, Olli, Jon and Kevin for the words of pre-sale encouragement. First words out of the surveyor's mouth were, "Nice boat you got there..."



Lsafron@AOL.com

[Jon Larson]

Geoff,

Congrats on the CD30, glad the surveyor liked it! I think that just fundamentally these are fine boats. Enjoy.

I've still got the original alcohol stove in PERI. In the early years we did have some exciting times with that stove due consistantly to improper priming. I finally took an old syrup bottle with a pull top type valve and keep that half full of alcohol. I then prime the stove from this bottle, MUCH more careful and accurate than using the stove pressure for prime, and I can say I've not had a single flare up since then.

Propane is nice, I've heard of CD30's that have done it. There's one out here on the bay that mounted the propane tanks on the cabin top in a custom teak box. Personally, I like the cabin top "clean". I had a dock mate with a Catalina 28 who had the propane tanks mounted in an enclosure mounted to the aft stainless railing, sort of mounted like my horseshoe bouy. I've often thought that would be the best place for a couple of small tanks.

I hope you post your results on the propane stove, I'm certainly interested in how it goes. My real problem is the old stove works great (for alcohol (grin)) and the stingy in me creates a problem in disposing of something with good value and use in it.

By the way, anybody need the top and bottom assemblies for a hood roller furler of about 15 years vintage? I saved them when I had the new Harken installed...the old ones for whatever bearings are still good are anybody's for the asking.

Jon Larson
Cape Dory 30 PERI
San Francisco Bay

Ahoy there!

Just acquired a '78 CD30, with the wimpy (and potentially dangerous) alcohol range and oven. I've been told that propane is the way to go. Anybody out there go through this? Any makes/models to suggest? Did you do the retrofit yourself? $$??

Thanks for any help!

Geoff Safron, reachable at Lsafron@AOL

P.S. Special thanks to Neil, Olli, Jon and Kevin for the words of pre-sale encouragement. First words out of the surveyor's mouth were, "Nice boat you got there..."

jon9@ix.netcom.com

[Al Mehrtens]

Geoff,

Congrats on the CD30, glad the surveyor liked it! I think that just fundamentally these are fine boats. Enjoy.

I've still got the original alcohol stove in PERI. In the early years we did have some exciting times with that stove due consistantly to improper priming. I finally took an old syrup bottle with a pull top type valve and keep that half full of alcohol. I then prime the stove from this bottle, MUCH more careful and accurate than using the stove pressure for prime, and I can say I've not had a single flare up since then.

Propane is nice, I've heard of CD30's that have done it. There's one out here on the bay that mounted the propane tanks on the cabin top in a custom teak box. Personally, I like the cabin top "clean". I had a dock mate with a Catalina 28 who had the propane tanks mounted in an enclosure mounted to the aft stainless railing, sort of mounted like my horseshoe bouy. I've often thought that would be the best place for a couple of small tanks.

I hope you post your results on the propane stove, I'm certainly interested in how it goes. My real problem is the old stove works great (for alcohol (grin)) and the stingy in me creates a problem in disposing of something with good value and use in it.

By the way, anybody need the top and bottom assemblies for a hood roller furler of about 15 years vintage? I saved them when I had the new Harken installed...the old ones for whatever bearings are still good are anybody's for the asking.

Jon Larson
Cape Dory 30 PERI
San Francisco Bay

Ahoy there!

Just acquired a '78 CD30, with the wimpy (and potentially dangerous) alcohol range and oven. I've been told that propane is the way to go. Anybody out there go through this? Any makes/models to suggest? Did you do the retrofit yourself? $$??

Thanks for any help!

Geoff Safron, reachable at Lsafron@AOL

P.S. Special thanks to Neil, Olli, Jon and Kevin for the words of pre-sale encouragement. First words out of the surveyor's mouth were, "Nice boat you got there..."

[A. Riley]

I suggest that you inquire about Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) as an alternate to propane. CNG is lighter than air. Propane is heavier than air and may sink into the bilge which can cause serious problems. The CNG tank can be stored (adequately secured) in a cockpit seat locker. The propane tank must be ventalated directly to the atmosphere. An emergency shut off solenoid is required with propane. A solenoid is not required for CNG. CNG may not be as readily available as propane. This may be a problem if you plan on cruising in remote areas.
Before you decide anything, I suggest that you check with your insurance company regarding your plans. Check with CNG/propane equipment manufacturers, quality boat manufacturer(s) and local boat yard(s) for information. The USCG may have information and/or requirements.

Geoff Safron, reachable at Lsafron@AOL

P.S. Special thanks to Neil, Olli, Jon and Kevin for the words of pre-sale encouragement. First words out of the surveyor's mouth were, "Nice boat you got there..."

[Mike Everett]

My wife and I recently bought a CD28 sailboat and were pleased to find the galley equipped with a two-burner Origo - a non-pressurized alcohol stove similar to the one-burner Origo we used on our previous boat. I've been happy with the simple alcohol stove; it gives off plenty of heat, has only one moving part, and the fuel is easy buy, stow, and refill.

But I've never used any sort of pressurized store in a marine environment. I'd be interested in learning the pros and cons of different stoves and fuels. Thanks.



everett@megalink.net

[Steve Alarcon]

Geoff,

Congratulations on your boat! I'm sure you will enjoy it.

Our CD30 was "upgraded" to propane by the previous owner. They installed a Force 10 2-burner with oven and broiler that serves very nicely for average meals. The also installed a propane fume detector (Xintex, I think it is [maybe spelled wrong]) just below the stove to pick up on leaks. They had a sealed box installed at the aft end of the cockpit with a vent line feeding through the cockpit deck to a through-hull at the stern. The box holds a 5lb propane bottle and the pressure valve assembly nicely, which seems to provide plenty of "gas" for an entire season. Overall, the installation "works" well. I am occaisionally bothered by the presence of the box in the cockpit, as it does limit the space behind the wheel for the "helmsperson" (we have a politically correct boat [grin]).

Although we have a cabin heater (diesel), we occaisionally use the stove to take the chill off the cabin quickly. This works fine, but the propane somehow produces "moist heat" which manifests itself by producing condensation on the ports (the diesel doesn't do this - go figure!)

A major benefit of the stove are the great brownies that are often made on long, cool afternoon sails.

Steve Alarcon
CD 30 Temerity
Seattle



alarcon@internetmci.com

[John]

Ahoy there!

Just acquired a '78 CD30, with the wimpy (and potentially dangerous) alcohol range and oven. I've been told that propane is the way to go. Anybody out there go through this? Any makes/models to suggest? Did you do the retrofit yourself? $$??

Thanks for any help!

Geoff Safron, reachable at Lsafron@AOL

P.S. Special thanks to Neil, Olli, Jon and Kevin for the words of pre-sale encouragement. First words out of the surveyor's mouth were, "Nice boat you got there..."

Geoff: I just left a message at your previous question regarding 30's. Well our 30 came from the factory with a two burner w/ oven cng system with two tanks mounted in a cradle glassed into the hull in the port cockpit locker as far aft as they could fit them. It's a GREAT arrangement. The tanks and more importantly the regulator are out of the corrosive weather. The fuel is SAFE ( lighter than air ). The two tanks seem to last forever. No odor. Does not affect our insurance rate. The stove oven is made by Seaward. Parts are readily available, not bad for a unit installed in '83 by the factory. Still performs great, no mess, no fuss. We use a sniffer to be extra SAFE, no 911 at sea! Had a Origo on another boat, impressive burner design, worked quite well. Don't even think of comparing it to older alcohols, there isn't a comparison. Taylor kerosene is nice too. I would never have propane on my boat. A personal choice..... I might think differently about propane if I was at the dock all the time and the fire department was at the end of the pier! Think of how much propane that deep bilge in a Dory can hold! That should help you decide. Good luck.

[John]

John:

Thanks for the info on CNG. Does sound like an efficient, safer alternative; only downside I've heard about is less refill infrastructure. My main turf is Great Lakes (St. Clair, Erie, Huron, Michigan); I'll have to look into where CNG is available.

Can you guestimate how many hours' cooking time you get from your twin tanks? How much of the locker do they take up?

Geoff

[Ferd Moyse III]

Just a note to ditto the good words re CNG. I have it on my "other" (non-Cape Dory) boat. It does seem to last forever. When the tank is empty, failing a more convenient source, just go to your local natural
gas company. They can fill it although they may have to scrounge around and make up an adaptor. The gas company here was happy to fill
my tanks and have never even charged me to do it....but I'm in the Hospitality State, Mississippi!



seawolf@tecinfo.com

[David Brownlee]

My wife and I recently bought a CD28 sailboat and were pleased to find the galley equipped with a two-burner Origo

I see in the catalogues that Origo also makes a stove with an oven--appropriate for a CD 30. Anyone have experience with that?

David Brownlee
"Windrush" CD 27
in Washington, D.C.



dbrownle@mail.sas.upenn.edu

[John]

John:

Thanks for the info on CNG. Does sound like an efficient, safer alternative; only downside I've heard about is less refill infrastructure. My main turf is Great Lakes (St. Clair, Erie, Huron, Michigan); I'll have to look into where CNG is available.

Can you guestimate how many hours' cooking time you get from your twin tanks? How much of the locker do they take up?

Geoff

Well Geoff I'm sorry but I can't give you a better estimate as to how long the double tank capacity lasts. I've never kept track. Leave it to say it lasts a very long time! If you are sailing in a limited sailing season as in Michigan I would think it will get you through a couple of seasons easily. If you want a more scientific estimate I suggest you contact either "SAFGAS" ( Gas Systems Stove Co. ) 2970 East Marie Street, Rancho Dominiquea, Ca. 90221, Ph:714/891-2411. Or try "GSI" 5361 Production Dr., Huntington Beach, Ca. 92649, Ph: 800/323-8924.
Those two companies will most likely have a listing of refuelers or tank swap suppliers for your area and elsewhere. As Fred says in his message the local "NG" supplier will refill you usually at little or no cost. As for the amount of space they take up in our CD 30 locker it seems to be about 18"x28"x8" not including the regulator area. This entire assembly is tucked against the hull as far aft as possible and up as close as possible to the underside of the deck. If you need more specific info you can e-mail me at riesimage@juno.com - John

[George Probolus]

John:

Thanks for the info on CNG. Does sound like an efficient, safer alternative; only downside I've heard about is less refill infrastructure. My main turf is Great Lakes (St. Clair, Erie, Huron, Michigan); I'll have to look into where CNG is available.

Can you guestimate how many hours' cooking time you get from your twin tanks? How much of the locker do they take up?

I installed CNG 2 years ago in our 31. I replaced the 2 gallon pressurized alcohol tank and mounted 1 CNG tank there and the 2nd tank
over the ice box. These are 2000psi tanks. Based upon our usage which includes hot breakfasts each day coffee & alternate ceral eggs and hot
supper, 1 tank will last 15/20 days. The second tank will get us thru the rest of the season, this longincludes weekends & Labor Day.
You can also try calling CORP Corp. in Providence RI, these people are
the manufacturesof CNG and they can supply you with of distributors.
To the best of my knowledge these tanks are exchanged that is you don't own them. You bring in your old tank and you get a full tank.
This seems to be a liability concern because of the CNG pressure and the condition of the tank.

Geoff

Well Geoff I'm sorry but I can't give you a better estimate as to how long the double tank capacity lasts. I've never kept track. Leave it to say it lasts a very long time! If you are sailing in a limited sailing season as in Michigan I would think it will get you through a couple of seasons easily. If you want a more scientific estimate I suggest you contact either "SAFGAS" ( Gas Systems Stove Co. ) 2970 East Marie Street, Rancho Dominiquea, Ca. 90221, Ph:714/891-2411. Or try "GSI" 5361 Production Dr., Huntington Beach, Ca. 92649, Ph: 800/323-8924.
Those two companies will most likely have a listing of refuelers or tank swap suppliers for your area and elsewhere. As Fred says in his message the local "NG" supplier will refill you usually at little or no cost. As for the amount of space they take up in our CD 30 locker it seems to be about 18"x28"x8" not including the regulator area. This entire assembly is tucked against the hull as far aft as possible and up as close as possible to the underside of the deck. If you need more specific info you can e-mail me at riesimage@juno.com - John

gprobolus@prodigy.net

[Tim Smale]

I'm about ready to refit a propane stove and Force 10 cabin heater on my CD36 Ketch, but keep waiting like all good sailors do before we do anything - - like the skies will open up and give us the answer. Even though I'm investing in 3 sniffers and all the protection one can employ, I'm still a bit nervous. Any thoughts on this before I take the plunge?

The alcohol stove was a nightmare when priming, even though it worked well when it worked well.

Propane users love propane it seems, but safety is the most important issue on my mind.

Enjoy life on the lean!



Tsmale@expost1.lof.com

[Leo MacDonald CD30K]

Tim,
I'm considering moving up and therefor looking for info on CD36K vs. CD36C. Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks, Leo A. MacDonald CD30K 'Heather Ann' No. 57

Enjoy life on the lean!

macdola@gwsmtp.nu.com