below-decks autopilot

[Warren S]

I'm interested in researching these types due to the limited space in our cockpit. Anyone have any experience with below-deck autopilots, or even if they are a reasonable approach?

Thanks...

[Warren S]

I posted a question first, THEN searched archives... Someday I'll come around!

[Parfait's Provider]

Warren,

I'll be happy to show you Parfait's installation if I can ever get to the boat. You can get a pretty good idea of what is involved from the Edson catalog.

[Warren S]

I have a handle on the components (Raytheon, will check Edson), but cant picture the tiller position feedback arm as it's shown - doesn't the rudderpost have to continue through the arm and up through the cockpit floor? Picture shows no through-hole (vertical) on the feedback arm.

By the way I sympathize - it's been a full 3 weeks since checking boat/slip. Will make the trip this weekend!

I'll take you up on the auto-pilot tour!

[Russell]

Honestly, on a CD 270 a below decks AP seems like serious overkill. You may even need to up your battery bank to use one for any serious amount of time.

I do have a below decks AP on my CD36, as I dont consider any of the wheel pilots adequate for offshore use on a boat this size. But from the CD30 on down I would certainly not consider a below decks AP for space and battery capacity reasons.

I dont really understand your issue with cockpit space, the newest wheel pilots dont really take up additional space, they install right on the wheel and the motor is built in (as opposed to some old units where the motor was installed off the wheel with a belt going to it). I am assuming you have a wheel, isnt that the norm on the 270? If its a tiller then I understand even less your desire for a below decks as a tiller pilot pops on and off quickly.

[Warren S]

I'l reconsider on the power consumption front.

These are tiller boats, and the 270 tiller sweeps the whole space (I can steer with one leg resting on the galley stove)!

As a control-system fanatic (a little EE background) I just like the cleanliness of the concept. I'll reconsider on the power consumption front however.

[Russell]

These are tiller boats, and the 270 tiller sweeps the whole space (I can steer with one leg resting on the galley stove)!

I have never seen a tiller boat with a below decks AP installed. Is your idea to remove the tiller when the AP is engaged thus freeing up the space? This to me would be a scary prospect, as its not uncommon to have to very quickly disengage the AP and start handsteering in an unexpected situation. If your leaving the tiller in place when the AP is steering, then I see little (though admitadly some) benefit to a below decks AP space wise (and about 3x the cost at least).

One of the nice things about tiller boats, even rather large ones, is the tiller gives so much mechanical advantage that a reletively low power and effective AP can be used compared to wheel driven boats. Ultimately though, a below decks AP is almost identical in operating concept to a tiller pilot, just far more powerful. On a boat as small as the CD270 it may be possible to use a TP installed below decks somehow since even the smallest below decks APs are made for boats far larger then yours. Raymarine has a new series of TPs with remote control heads (rather then buttons right on the TP) that may be very well suited for use as a below decks AP on a small boat, it may be worth looking into those. Go to the raymarine sit and look at the S1 tiller pilot, I have actually been looking at these myself to replace my below decks AP, since I have a windvane I can attach a TP to the vane to for more power efficient AP.

Here is a drastically different idea for you. Why not a windvane? A auxillary rudder vane would require no lines to the cockpit and your tiller could be stored "up" but ready to grab in an emergency. Most aux rudder vanes are large designs for large boats, but you could probably come up with a custom design that will work well for your CD270. But then, a lot of people cant stand the looks of a windvane(understandably) and a custom design is a big project (but fun if your into engineering).

[Warren S]

Good points Russell. The tiller in this boat (again slightly different from Alberg designs) will stow vertically and allow ful motion. It could be re-deployed instantly (I'd insist).

The S1 unit actually was the first unit I looked at (thanks Ken C.) and haven't found one comparable.

Don't mention a Windvane to Judy, It'll be installed when I next visit the boat! She's pretty jazzed about the concept, as am I, but hesitate since I've always seen those as offshore solutions - set it if you are going for days. Our longest fetch would be across the sound to Ocracoke. All other trips would be in a little more local, and with only the engine in the becalmed summers we have here (save for the occasional squall =8-O )

[Russell]

Good points Russell. The tiller in this boat (again slightly different from Alberg designs) will stow vertically and allow ful motion. It could be re-deployed instantly (I'd insist).

The S1 unit actually was the first unit I looked at (thanks Ken C.) and haven't found one comparable.

Don't mention a Windvane to Judy, It'll be installed when I next visit the boat! She's pretty jazzed about the concept, as am I, but hesitate since I've always seen those as offshore solutions - set it if you are going for days. Our longest fetch would be across the sound to Ocracoke. All other trips would be in a little more local, and with only the engine in the becalmed summers we have here (save for the occasional squall =8-O )

Thats handy that your tiller can stow that way, I can see better now why you are looking at below decks solutions. I will be curious what you end up coming up with.

Dont discount the Windvane for daysails, it works just fine for short sails with frequent course changes. It is slightly more cumbersome to change course then an AP, but with practice you can get the course you want without much fussing with it, though as you learn to use it you will find yourself fussing with it a lot, practice and experience is the key with vanes as well as very good sail trim (a vane certainly teaches your to be a better sailor!).

Another idea for you, since most below decks APs are way over powered for your boat, you may consider a custom AP. Have you looked into WH autopilots? They do have stock systems but also make custom APs for specific situations. If you called them and explained you want a below decks AP for a small boat with limited space, they may be able to come up with something for you with a smaller motor then is the norm saving you power and space. Though this is probably an expensive solution, its worth at least giving them a call to inquire. http://www.whautopilots.com/

[Parfait's Provider]

How about hooking an above-deck AP to the windvane? Seems like a nice engineering challenge to me.

[Bill Goldsmith]

Loonsong (CD32) came to me with a below-deck autopilot (Autohelm). The PO used to sail from Florida to the Bahamas and the Caribbean.

It is nice to have, and works great. The strength, speed, response, protected location and component upgradability are major pros. On the con side, Cape Dorys do not have an abundance of room in the quarters, and the mechanical ram takes up a good bit of space in the cockpit locker. Then there is the cost. Since I do mostly coastal sailing in reasonably protected waters, I definitely would not have invested the money in a new below decks pilot myself.

[Russell]

How about hooking an above-deck AP to the windvane? Seems like a nice engineering challenge to me.

This is what I am doing and its a pretty common setup for boats with windvanes and it works extreamly well. However since the windvane is going to require lines in the cockpit it does not solve his crowded cockpit problem at all, in fact it will be a bit worse then the tiller pilot connected right to the tiller.

[Parfait's Provider]

I'll give you all that, but I think it depends on the self-steerer. If it is a separate blade in the water with a trim tab for control, then the tiller need not be used.