Lobstah trap warps (or crap pots, for that matter)

[SeaBelle]

In years of sailing the Gulf of Maine in my CD28 I've never snagged a pot. It's not my seamanship but SeaBelle's hull configuration.

But a friend has a Sabre 452 with a modern underbody: fin keel, unprotected prop, and rudder, w/o skeg. His shaft has a 'warp cutter' although we cringe at the thought of doing that to a lobsterman. In spite of maintaining constant pot watch he has had a couple of wraps that I had to dive on (and approaching 70 and with Maine's cold water, I'd rather not) and a couple of warps snagged on the rudder.

We just returned from a brilliant sail through Pennobscott Bay and he said that dodging pots took a lot of the fun out of it. I had just taken him though the beautiful islands between Isle au Haut and Stonington, not through Merchants row but an even more scenic route picking our way through the islands. He was at the helm, I navigated, and another friend stood pot watch. At the end I asked how he enjoyed it and he said he was so busy dodging pots he didn't hardly see it.

I realize that while sailing your CD you probably don't agonize over this but for those of you with fin keel experience or knowledge, I'd appreciate your input.

On the return leg from Mattinicus to Kittery, ME we all spoke about the issue and I realized how little I knew. Some unanswered questions are:

For pots w/o toggles
1. Does the pot avoidance maneuver increase the likelihood of snagging the pot? Is it better just to plow ahead?
2. Is it more likely to snag a pot going slower than faster?
For pots with toggles
3. Is the toggle line much more likely to wrap or foul on the rudder? We think so.

Given his underbody is there any gear to solve or mitigate the problem. I know lobster boats themselves have cages around their props. Do fin keel sailboats have similar protection?

OK we're hung up; how do we deal with it. I know how to clear a shaft wrap (but I'd rather not). What's the best way to deal with a rudder snag?

Ideally, we'd like not to keep a constant pot watch and avoidance tactic; we'd prefer to enjoy the sail. Also, our multi-day sails always involve 24+ hr legs and night sailing and pot watches are ineffective. We sail offshore both for direct routes and to avoid pots but at beginning and end we are inshore.

Any advice or comments is appreciated.

[Ron M.]

They are certainly a pain in the ass.........but to a lobsterman so are sailboats. I sailed to Bar Harbor in July/August with a friend on his Erickson. I believe it has a skeg and the only time we 'caught' a pot was when we anchored at Porpoise Harbor in heavy fog late one night......dropped the hook between the pot and float which we didn't see. No damage done. They say around Boothbay there are places where if you are fast enough you can run from point to point by stepping on the lobster buoys .

[bottomscraper]

On while a mooring in Christmas Cove ME (a small cove, very crowded with lobster buoys) we saw this 80ft boatcome in and pick up a mooring. We were a bit concerned since they were very close to us and had no swinging room. They only stayed a few hours (a good thing) and used their bow thruster to turn around in the tight space. During the process they picked up a lobster buoy with their rudder and sent some poor kid over the side in just a bathing suit to clear it. Personally I don't think it was prudent to bring a boat that size into that small harbor, but thats just me.

The use of toggles seems to be a regional thing. Does anyone know why some areas seem to use them while others don't? Personally I hate them. So far we have been lucky, we do have one of those "Shaft Shark" line cutters that came with the boat. As far as we know it hasn't ever cut anything but we do make an effort to avoid lobster buoys as much as possible.

[Joe CD MS 300]

The toggles become increasingly more common as you go down east. I believe that it has something to do with the increasing tidal range.

[M. R. Bober]

http://www.thelobstercam.com/

Where do they find the time?

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Rapid City (enroute) SD

[bottomscraper]

Interesting link on lobster buoys:
http://www.mainecoastguide.com/sidebars/buoys.html

[Warren S]

Not much to do with buoys, but I know the author (my brother)

http://www.lobstermanspage.net/

[SeaBelle]

Thanks for the references; they were enjoyable and informative. Warren, thank your brother for me (at least).

Re Cape Dorys
I noted the response about a strap between the hull and rudder to prevent a line snagging there. I've never had that problem but often worried about that vulnerability, point taken.

Re fin keels:
Although Bill's boat has a cutter on the shaft, I abhor the idea of cutting warp. Many of us feel that the Coast Guard provides relief when we are in distress, I put my trust in the lobstermen and increasingly lobsterwomen who are always closer and always willing. In the past as a last resort I have cut warp but didn't know I should retie it. Point taken!

I wish there was a way to mitigate snags in the rudder. Although we keep an constant pot watch, it detracts from our enjoyment. We often sail overnight and in fog and even our best efforts are ineffective inshore. We sail our long legs offshore in over 40 fathoms where the lobster buoys are thin. Snagging warps isn't just inconvenient it can be dangerous. Snagged in heavy seas or high winds, etc. puts boat and crew at risk. While I'll dive on a wrap in the calm what will this geezer do at night in heavy weather. It is an safety issue.

I've thought of a v-shaped attachment to a boat hook that I could use to push a warp below the rudder. Does such a thing exist? Or is a business opportunity?

[neil]

Depending on the center of rotation of the rudder it is possible you could attach a thin stainless cable at an angel from the leading edge of the rudder to the underside of the hull. The further forward the cable leads the better. If possible you can also run the cable to the trailing edge of the keel. (possibly a better idea)
I dont know what this would do your hydrodynamics, it seems possible that the cable if too tight could vibrate but not having done this I dont know.

Here is a very crappy drawing, its too early to be messing with Photoshop, in this example the orange squareish things are attachment points, and the lines between them are the cable.
The thicker line going from inside the rudder into the hull would be the rudder shaft.

http://www.odd.org/rudder.jpg

At some point I am going to try this on my Moms boat, she a a Westerly 25 which has three keels and a rudder that could easily get snagged on stuff. I will let you know how it turns out.

On another note, if you do get snagged while sailing, TAKE DOWN THE SAILS!
One lovely night some friends and I were sailing to Stock Island going up Hawks channel when I noticed something was weird: we were heeled over a bit and water was rushing past the hull but we dident seem to be moving. I mentioned this to my friends and they thought I was nuts and pointed out that the water was going past the hull and all that. Well anyway we had caught a crab trap line with the prop and I was right, we wernt moving, the appearance of moving was caused by a rather strong current. I hopped overboard and started untangling the bloody thing in total darkness. As soon as I got us loose the boat took off and at the last moment I was able to grab my kayak which we were towing. Getting back in the boat was VERY VERY DIFFICULT!, at 5 knots or more water makes you VERY heavy, I had to pull the kayak up to the transom and climb from it back into the boat. Neither of my friends know how to sail and the likelihood of them managing to turn around and find me in the dark was about zero.
I am not going to pull that one again:
Long line tied to me, swim ladder over the transom and all sails down.
One other thing, dont get yourself snagged in the trap line!

Cheers,
Neil

[Steve Laume]

There was a wreck on the beach at Block Island a few years back. It looked like it had been a nice boat but it was bobbing in the surf with pieces torn off. Anything of value had been stripped. The mast was at the snack bar so I inquired as to what had happened. It turned out that a guy of undetermined age had borrowed his dad's boat to sail to Block. There would have been an extremely difficult phone call involved somewhere in this story!

The snack bar people said they snagged a lobster pot. I couldn't figure how that had ended in the boat on the beach. We had to go out and snorkel around the "ship wreck". It turns out what happened was that they must have picked up the wrap in shallow water. It wound around the prop but not before it managed to pull the pot up into the rudder! Whoever was aboard mus have been pretty astounded by losing power and steering all at once. They must have been trying to come into Old Harbor and didn't have too much time to get an anchor overboard. It still seems hard to believe they would have let the boat crash onto the beach with a good sand bottom and most likely all the sails down.

So you might add to sails down, a line on the swimmer, an anchor at the ready or possibly already deployed before messing around in the water with lobster pots.

This can be serious business. Those poor guys lost their boat! They even seemed to have some room to work. There are lots of places where you could snag a pot and be on the rocks before the anchor set even if you got it over quick. The boat was definitely a fin keel and spade rudder with that nice slot opened and the wrap lead through it with the pot jambed up tight against the rudder.

We have an advantage with full keel but be careful, Steve.