Steering my CD 27 in reverse

[dougw]

Having difficulty maneuvering in reverse. Any owners have suggestions to improve performance??

[RMeigel]

Don't go in reverse. Seriously, the bow is going to go whichever way the wind pushes it, so the name of the game is to stay out of situations where you need to steer a straight line for any distance in reverse. Fortunately, the CD 27 is small enough to muscle in and out of slips in tight marina situations.

There is usually a port tack crosswind in my slip, however slight. It is either that, or my prop wash causing the boat to walk big time ass to port that invariably means I back out in the direction I don't want to go. So I just let the boat keep on doing what it wants to do until there is room to put her in forward and take her where I wanted to point originally. Fortunately, there is room to make the 360.

[Neil Gordon]

The one thing you have going for you is that the boat is pretictable. Get the wind on one side of the bow and you'll blow off the other way. So what can you do?

If you are leaving a slip, if the angle is small, hold the bow in tight and let the stern go. That might put the wind on the right side.

Get assistance getting underway. Someone on the dock heaving your bow up into the wind will give enough momentum to get the boat spinning the right way. You should be able to go forward from there.

Use spring lines... holding one corner of the boat will force the other end no matter which way the wind takes it.

Learn to enjoy your boat, including the full keel, and all the advantages it offers. That you can't steer in reverse is just one of the compromises you make for all the good stuff.

[Dixon Hemphill]

When I first saw the slip I had paid for in advance my first question was, "How can I possibly get my CD28 into this space?" The harbor master told me a larger boat than mine had done it so I figured well so can I. Frankly it takes more guts than brains and sailing skills to get into a narrow (I mean 10' width) with a 8' 10' beam boat but it can be done.

Just come alongside the slip and go past it for several feet and then put her in reverse while pushing the tiller away from you. This obviously applies to tiller boats only. The boat will go back and slightly into the slip. Go forward a bit and then reverse again while keeping the tiller pushed away. The boat will go into the slip a bit further. On the third manuever you should be able to back her all the way into the slip. It will take some practice but it does work.

Try it and let me know how you did, Dixon CD28 "GUD2SAIL"

[Warren Kaplan]

I used a slip line to control my backing out of my slip for years. Full keel boats have a mind of their own when backing up. Doesn't make a difference what it did the last time, the next time can be different.

My slip was in tight quarters and I had no room for maneuvering errors. So I used a slip line.

I got a line twice the length of my boat (55 ft). I secured one end to a stern cleat on my starboard side (you could use port if it suits you). Then I'd pass the line around the dolphin pole off the starboard stern of my boat and collect the remaining slack in a neat coil in the cockpit.

I'd back the boat up, paying out the line with no tension as the boat backed. As the bow just cleared the last dolphin pole I tightened up the slip line either manually or by taking a half turn around a starboard cleat. As the line tightened it pulled the stern around to starboard facing the bow to port in the middle of the channel in the exact direction I wanted to go. Once I was there, I'd let go the end of the line I was handling and just pulled the now loose end around the dolphin pole and back into the boat. I made sure to put the engine into neutral for the few seconds the line was being pulled through the water to make sure it did not wrap around a spinning prop.

Once the line was back in the boat (maybe 10 seconds to pull it in) I put the engine into forward gear and I was off. I threw the 55 foot line into the starboard cockpit locker to be coiled up later.

A slip line takes the guess work out of backing out of a slip and it works every time!!

[eb1smith]

I have backed in a straight line in reverse many times. You do have to practice. First check to see how the prop walk is going to effect the bow, on the 31 with a right-handed prop; the prop walk is going to push the stern to the port side and the bow will go to the starboard. If you cheat the rudder over to the starboard side then once you have steerage, this will counteract the prop walk. The key is the time it takes to get steerage. If you have wind on the starboard side then use the prop walk to counteract the wind pushing the bow down, if the wind is on the port side then get up to steerage speed is quickly as possible, I really push the throttle in reverse to achieve this. If you are at a slip then use either the above mentioned Jack Klang Method of using lines or have someone hold the bow at the angle you need to counteract the prop walk. But you have to practice these techniques.

http://www.cruising.sailingcourse.com/docking.htm

[Mike Raehl]

I found it to be impossible to consistently back out of my slip, especially with an audience on adjacent docks. So two years ago, I adopted Warren's method with two additions..... Mounted a vertical roller on the dock made from galvanized pipe and a short section of PVC tubing. The spring line runs from the winch, around the roller and back to the cockpit. Also, the spring line is made of braided poly so it floats on the surface until retrieved from boat.

In practise, one crew uses a boat hook to hold the bow near the the dock while I back slowly 'straight' out of the slip. The bow clears the slip just before I get to the bitter end of the spring line. At that point, I pull on the bitter end and the boat pivots into the channel. Then forward motion, release the bitter end, spring line plays out around the dock roller and is retrieved from the boat.

Works great for me and I am no longer embarrassed in front of the audience.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m296 ... ine003.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m296 ... ine002.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m296 ... ine001.jpg

[Warren S]

Mike, is there a chance this image is backwards? My throttle/shift is on the opposite side, but what I really need help with s my stern walks to port... wouldn't I then have the spring line off starboard?

Thanks

[bobc]

1. Set the tiller hard-over so that when backing, the stern will go the way you want. Walk the boat part way out of the slip, point the boat as much as is possible (and safe) and give it a slight shove to get her backing as you climb on board. Then use the engine.

2. Don't be timid with the throttle. Get the boat moving in reverse so that the rudder starts to become effective. Just before you crash into whatever's behind you, swing the tiller hard-over the other direction and give it lots of forward throttle. This will stop the backing and spin the boat at the same time -- giving you even more room. After you've started moving forward, watch that you don't over-rotate. Let the boat build some forward momentum so that you can overcome wind and currents.

My slip usually has both wind and currents on the stern and this is the only method I've found for getting the bow to point any direction other than downwind. I'd prefer to use spring lines, but they won't work in my situation. Note: I always warm up the engine and check the transmission operation before casting off. I also keep a boat pole ready.

I used to limit myself to minimum throttle and speed when backing, and still prefer to drift into my slip with the engine in neutral, but I've found that some conditions warrant more aggressive use of the throttle and more boat speed to be safe.

[Mike Raehl]

Warren,
Pictures are not reversed. From my slip, I need to swing the bow to starboard to exit the channel. The prop walk to port does work in my favor. However if it takes effect too soon and / or the bow swings to starboard too soon, I get dangerously close to the boat next to me.

If I docked on the starboard side, Bob's suggestions above would all apply. I tend to be timid with the throttle when in tight quarters and pride myself on drifting oh so slowly into the slip with the engine running in neutral.

[RonE58]

I had this same question when I purchased my cd 27 last fall.
I use a slightly motified version of Warrens method. When I back out of my semi-private slip I have as much concern in whats behind me as I do with what his right next to me, so I leave a sinking line tied to the second cleat on my dock. I run it thru my port side bow cleat all the way back to the rear jib cleat. I also leave one dock line tied to the port side stern cleat. As I back out I remove both lines, I throw the stern line onto the dock and let the sinking line pass all the way thru to the bow cleat until it falls off the boat. I retrieve it later after I return. Once I get out past my dock the boat will go where ever it wants I just leave enough room to counter act it by going forward in the opposite direction.

I Also made it a point last March 1st when the dock list went up to grab a slip that would make it easier for me to go in and out of.
Good luck,
Ron

[Gary M]

My last boat was a Rawson 30 which has a similar keel as a CD. When I first tried backing out of my slip, the stern would go to starboard and the bow to port no matter what I would do.

This would point me for the cement sea wall.

On my first trip I found myself on a mooring with no one around and I decided to practice.

There was no wind, no current. I would come to a complete stop in front of the mooring I was renting and put the engine in reverse.

The stern would go to port, the bow to starboard. I repeated the maneuver many times with the same results.

I left scratching my head.

Back at my slip the boat switched back to stern to starboard and bow to port.

Finally the technique I used was to give the engine a short blast in reverse to get steerage, then turn my wheel slightly in the direction I wanted to go. If the boat did not behave, I put it in forward and pulled back into the slip to try again.

It never took me more then 3 tries the way I remember it.

The day I sea trialed the boat it worked perfectly on the first try and the buyer was really impressed because he heard full keel boats would not back up. I told him it sometimes takes more then one try!

Back then I did not know of the Cape Dory Board and so did not know of a slip line as Warren and others use.

There is no doubt in my mind that I would have successfully used the slip line technique if I knew. Thanks to the board I use it now to sail out of my slip.

Gary

[Bob Schwartz]

I have been plagued with problems backing my CD-27 for years. To echo the observations of others, the action of the boat is unpredictable.

Recently, I read this post and experimented with Warren's backing method for several hours. I will never try to back the 27 out of a slip again unless it is rigged with a slip line.

[Neil Gordon]

To echo the observations of others, the action of the boat is unpredictable.

Quite the contrary. If you are aware of the forces on the boat, the actions are totally predictable.

Wind... varies in direction and intensity. Maybe gusts vs. steady is a variable. In any case, the same wind from the same direction will always impact the boat in the same way.

Current... Think of it as underwater wind, in a way.

Prop/motor... will drive the boat forward, backwards and a little bit sideways. You can only vary the prop speed and direction.

Attachments... you can tether your boat to the bottom, to a dock, to a drogue or dinghy, etc.

Rudder... as already discussed, almost totally useless while backing (but not completely).

Okay, so the number of combinations may be infinite, but the number of practical outcomes is just a handful. You should be able to figure out, with a little practice, how your boat will react in your slip given prevailing winds. Especially once you narrow down and separate the conditions that are favorable vs. unfavorable, you'll learn how the unfavorable conditions affect the boat and also learn how to compensage.

[Bob Schwartz]

Neil:

I appreciate your post. What it says to me is that competent sailors should understand forces that move the boat. I certainly agree.

However, "totally" is quite a strong word. There is very little in nature that is totally predictable - unless you have lots of accurately measured events and a big computer. If one can accurately predict the motion of the boat 24 out of 25 times, that is of little consolation on the 25th time, when the boat is drifting towards a concrete bulkhead (opposite to intended path) in a narrow space with boats on either side. I have owned the 27 for about 5 years, and have been in this situation 3 times. Fortunately, I never collided with another boat or object. (I feel lucky) The vast majority of launches have been uneventful. My batting average is good, but the failures cause a good bit of anxiety when it comes time to back.

Also, when it is predictable that the bow will swing the wrong way, the method described by Warren (and other CD members in this post) will correct that.

No method is perfect, but having experimented with this backing method, I have a renewed confidence in my ability to back the boat without incident.