Anchoring Question

[SeaBelle]

I often sail as crew on a friend’s 4 year old Sabre 452. Bill has always picked up a mooring and has never anchored out. We just took a quick trip to Casco Bay and anchored off Chebeague just for practice. Although I always anchor out, his rig was unfamiliar to me and I have a question.

I never deploy my CQR off the roller; I take it off the roller and deploy it at the chock. I understand that the bow pulpit isn’t designed to withstand the loads. Although I had never used a windlass, I understand that they shouldn’t take the load either.

How do you anchor with his rig? He has a 45# CQR on a bow roller with 50 ft of chain and 250 ft of rode. The anchor/chain connection is a swivel anchor connector and the chain/anchor connection is a chin to rope splice. He has a vertical windlass with a chain/rope gypsy. I deployed off the bow roller and fed the rode directly from the bow roller to the cleat which I expect was wrong.

[Neil Gordon]

I understand that the bow pulpit isn’t designed to withstand the loads. Although I had never used a windlass, I understand that they shouldn’t take the load either.

The bow sprit isn't generally designed to take lateral loads. I suspect you can pull up and down on it all you want. Does anyone know of a failure one way or the other?

You are correct that the windlass shouldn't take the load.

With either all chain or a chain/rope combination, you can take the strain off the roller and/or windlass by attaching a line to the rode with a rolling hitch and leading it back through a chock and to a cleat. Then ease the rode so that the line takes the strain.

[Carter Brey]

http://www.triton381.com/projects/small ... damage.htm

[Neil Gordon]

http://www.triton381.com/projects/small ... damage.htm

Carter,

That's quite a bit of leverage from the bow to the otherwise unsupported platform holding the rollers. By comparison, the bow sprit on the CD 28 extends only a short distance from the stem fitting and a downward pull exerts significantly less force. Aside from that, is the broken platform hard to break oak or easier to break teak?

(Notwithstanding the above, you do get extra credit for responding to my somewhat cynical "does anyone have a real life example.")

[Didereaux]

...
How do you anchor with his rig? He has a 45# CQR on a bow roller with 50 ft of chain and 250 ft of rode. The anchor/chain connection is a swivel anchor connector and the chain/anchor connection is a chin to rope splice. He has a vertical windlass with a chain/rope gypsy. I deployed off the bow roller and fed the rode directly from the bow roller to the cleat which I expect was wrong.

Any boat for which a 45lb anchor is suitably sized will have a sampson post. If it does not, it is not equipped fit for any anchoring other than 'lunch-hooking', period.

As for the bowsprit that is a different matter, a proper one has fairly massive bracing, whether cable or solid and you will see it. If it is just a piece of gingerbread to make the boat look pretty, then apply the thoughts stated above about lack of a sampson post.

g'Luk

[Russell]

Any boat for which a 45lb anchor is suitably sized will have a sampson post. If it does not, it is not equipped fit for any anchoring other than 'lunch-hooking', period.

I disagree entirely, there is loads of full time cruisers using 45# and much larger hooks without sampson posts. Most proper cruising boats have adequately sized bow cleats which do the job nicely. I consider a 45# cqr a good anchor for the CD36 and I have no sampson post and no complaints about lacking one. I have sat on the hook many times in winds in excess of 40 knots and never felt a cleat was going to give way (though I did worry about dragging of course).

As for the bowsprit, it most certainly is not the spot for your anchor load to be taken, it certainly can break (the previous owner of my boat broke it this way). Its not designed to take that kind of load, think of it simply as an anchor launching system. A snubber line lead through a bow chock (where your docklines are led through) is proper. If your going to be on the hook any length of time then two snubbers should be rigged (a back up when the first one chafes through). The bowsprit nor the windlass should never take any load while anchored when set up properly.

[Neil Gordon]

>>If your going to be on the hook any length of time then two snubbers should be rigged (a back up when the first one chafes through).<<

John Vigor has suggested a length of chain, then the snubber. That eliminates the chafe problem.

[Russell]

>>If your going to be on the hook any length of time then two snubbers should be rigged (a back up when the first one chafes through).<<

John Vigor has suggested a length of chain, then the snubber. That eliminates the chafe problem.

While a fair idea, I dont think I want the chain banging around on my brightwork for extended periods (unfortunately the toe and rub rail get touched by the snubber on a CD36), even the line rode goes through the varnish pretty quick, but I suspect chain would be far worse.

I have seen a lot of boats (Gozzard and Caliber come to mind) that do the ideal setup, which is the fitting where the bobstay attaches to the hull near the waterline has an extra hole in it for a shackle. You attach your snubber there, it has several advantages, one being nothing to chafe on, another being that its obviously a substantial peice of well supported load bearing hardware and finnally with it being at the water line you get your needed scope with less chain(its like the difference between anchoring in 15' vs 10').

[SeaBelle]

I got what I needed. This board is a treasure; make that this community is a treasure.

[Len]

A few years ago I was moored during a early season storm. My pennants wrapped around my CQR and tore the bowsprit in half. The bowsprit, as has been repeatedly stated, is only for deployment/storage and a way to get more sail area out of a cutter.(P.S. my mooring lines do not go over the sprit the hand from the side chock/cleat combo.)
For anchoring I use a 20 ft lenght of nylon rode with a chain hook at one end that hooks onto my all chain rode and ends on the large cleats.
tHis leaves slack in the chain, quits the ride and makes for some Give in the system. When I'm really worried I attach another line to the chain and wrap that around the windless, winch style, with a tugboat hitch to terminate the wraps.

[Troy Scott]

Neil wrote:<With either all chain or a chain/rope combination, you can take the strain off the roller and/or windlass by attaching a line to the rode with a rolling hitch and leading it back through a chock and to a cleat. Then ease the rode so that the line takes the strain.>

Neil,
About that rolling hitch: Do you just climb out on the sprit and tie onto the rode forward of the roller? Or will the knot pass over the roller, which means you could put the rolling hitch just forward of the windlass and then let it out?

[Clay Stalker]

On my former boat, a Shannon 28 with a bowsprit, I always deployed the CQR from the bowsprit without a problem, sometimes in some heavy winds. I used 50' of chain and 250' of nylon rode. To watch what was happening in heavier winds, I believe the nylon rode was taking more of the load than the bowsprit. Maybe I was just lucky....

[Troy Scott]

Folks,
I've seen boats with standing rigging from the tip of the bowsprit aft to a point about 25% on the deck length. Presumably this is to allow the sprit to handle side loads. Has anyone seen fit to add this rigging to a CD with bowsprit?

[Neil Gordon]

About that rolling hitch: Do you just climb out on the sprit and tie onto the rode forward of the roller? Or will the knot pass over the roller, which means you could put the rolling hitch just forward of the windlass and then let it out?

It should pass over the roller without difficulty. Same thing coming back.

[Oswego John]

Folks,
I've seen boats with standing rigging from the tip of the bowsprit aft to a point about 25% on the deck length. Presumably this is to allow the sprit to handle side loads. Has anyone seen fit to add this rigging to a CD with bowsprit?

Troy,

Many other sailboats with sprits extending out from the nose have these supports. We call them whisker stays. With the short sprits on a CD, I don't think that they are practical or necessary.

Those boats that you have noticed that have a forestay attached to the tip of a bow sprit, will probably also have a bobstay attached under the tip of the sprit, running downward and aft and attached to the cutwater. This bobstay tends to counteract the upward pull on the sprit from the force of the wind on the sails. Real long sprits might have a martingale configuration along with a dolphin striker, but not on a CD (that I'm aware of).

O J