?Varnish, Cetol or What?

[Troy Scott]

on the same boat might pose a long term problem. Maybe I'm dreaming up problems, but maybe not. I need input from folks with real-world experience.

Suppose you paint your boat with a tough, two-part (catalyzed) finish and on the same boat you use a new high-tech two-part finish on the teak. Ideally both finishes would last forever with minimal maintenance. BUT we all know all finishes, especially those on teak, will eventually go bad and will need to be completely removed. Obviously removing Honey Teak, Bristol Finish or any other tough two-part finish is going to require a stronger paint remover than regular varnish or an alkyd resin based finish. What will happen to my fine Perfection paint job when I have to use a powerful stripper on the Honey Teak?

At least varnish and Cetol can be removed with strippers that aren't likely to ruin the Perfection. Right? Wrong?

[Capthunter]

http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o222 ... 530206.jpg

This is a different spin,.....I tool gray weathered teak,..cleaned it w/o sanding with teak cleaning solution and water,...then applied 2 coats of "light" cetol, folllowed with a coat of Cetol Gloss Sealer. It leaves the look and feel of the teak grain. each to their own I guess.

I just will not undertake varnish projects again. Light cetol gives enough of a varnish look to me to satisfy me,...and allows more sailing days. On previous boats I have owned / captained, one maintaence coat annually suffices.
CaptHunter

ps. This CD28 located in Baltimore, MD will be listed for sale shortly. Anyone interested in receiving additional pics, let me know.

[Russell]

Russell,
What is the necessary maintenance in the tropics for Epifanes? How often do you recoat? Do you sand before recoating? How long would it be before the finish was unsalvageable (requiring a complete strip) if you neglected it?

I can tell you, since I did neglect it long enough to require a complete strip! 10 coats took about 8 months before it was unsalvageable. 2 coats every 6 months is minimum(and what I try to do), a better solution would be 2 coats every 4 months. I see a lot of woody boats who have covers made for their teak, the handrail, toe rail, etc... If your a sucker for real varnish finish (nothing compares, though some come close) then perhaps covers are the solution, I have thought of doing this more then once, but then, why have a boat with all that pretty brightwork if your just going to cover it up?

The fancy high end crewed charter boats down here, like hinkleys and such, make use of the cheap labor here and take a totally different approach. Rather then build up 10+ coats and try to maintain it through the year, they just do 3 coats every 6 months, hire a boat boy to completely strip and redo the varnish twice a year! Thats certainly not in my budget though!

[Dean Abramson]

Zeida, your boat is fantastic! Your photos are great too.

Dean

[Maine Sail]

Russell (and all),

a finish consisting of seven to twelve coats of "EP-eh-fains"? Or is it a toss-up because each would need an additional coat or two per year anyway? Also, what about sanding before the maintenance coat? LeTonkinois claims you don't need to sand before a maintenance coat. That would be a huge time-saver. What about "EP-eh-fains"? Do you sand before a maintenance coat? How often are additional coats required? Does ANYBODY know how the "natural UV protection" in LeTonkinois compares to the synthetic UV enhancement of Epifanes and/or Cetol Natural and Gloss?

Troy,

Not to be nit picky but the proper pronunciation is not EP-eh-Fains. It's called Ep-eh-fah-ness. Just call the distributor in Maine and see how they pronounce it...

I know most folks call it EP-eh-Fains but I guess it's like the Poor-schhh or Poor-Scha people when talking about the Porsche..

[Troy Scott]

Maine Sail,

Being somewhat of language buff I would have guessed Ep-eh-fah-ness. However, I've learned that it isn't always good to insist on correct pronunciation. I wouldn't want to order a hahm-boor-goor in El-dough-RAY-dough, Arkansas. However, I will endeavor to say Ep-eh-fah-ness from now on.

[Troy Scott]

Folks,

After closely reading the Cetol literature WRT maintenance of a finish system consisting of Cetol Natural Teak overcoated with Cetol Gloss, I see that maintenance coats should be preceded by a sanding with fine paper. Before I caught that I expected NOT to sand before the maintenance coats, based on the fact that sanding is not required between the separate coats of the initial installation. I'm disappointed to learn this, because this means the maintenance would be similar to that required for varnish (which I think is nicer anyway).

On the other hand, the distributor for Le Tonkinois wrote this WRT maintenance coats:

Le Tonkinois needs very little sanding, sanding is
done mainly to clean the surface...I wet sand with a
fine grit. Watch the gloss, when it dulls give a light
sanding and put on another coat or two. It will jump
right back. If you follow this formula you'll never
have to strip.
A light sanding as described above is all that's
needed. In fact, sanding isn't needed at all if you
think the surface is clean enough.

-end quote-

Now that last part really caught my attention...., the part about sanding not being really necessary for a bond. If it's really true (I have no reason to doubt the fellow) then this is the only varnish I've ever heard of that doesn't require sanding before a maintenance coat. Indeed, the Epifanes technician wrote that varnish just will not stick to slick varnish.

Thoughts?

[Troy Scott]

Folks,

After closely reading the Cetol literature WRT maintenance of a finish system consisting of Cetol Natural Teak overcoated with Cetol Gloss, I see that maintenance coats should be preceded by a sanding with fine paper. Before I caught that I expected NOT to sand before the maintenance coats, based on the fact that sanding is not required between the separate coats of the initial installation. I'm disappointed to learn this, because this means the maintenance would be similar to that required for varnish (which I think is nicer anyway).

On the other hand, the distributor for Le Tonkinois wrote this WRT maintenance coats:

Le Tonkinois needs very little sanding, sanding is
done mainly to clean the surface...I wet sand with a
fine grit. Watch the gloss, when it dulls give a light
sanding and put on another coat or two. It will jump
right back. If you follow this formula you'll never
have to strip.
A light sanding as described above is all that's
needed. In fact, sanding isn't needed at all if you
think the surface is clean enough.

-end quote-

Now that last part really caught my attention...., the part about sanding not being really necessary for a bond. If it's really true (I have no reason to doubt the fellow) then this is the only varnish I've ever heard of that doesn't require sanding before a maintenance coat. Indeed, the Epifanes technician wrote that varnish just will not stick to slick varnish.

Thoughts?

[carsail1260]

2 coats of Cetol light cut 50/50 with mineral spirits to give the teak a little color. Then 3 coats of Cetol Gloss will make your wood look varnished. The Cetol Gloss has UV protection, but the new Cetol Clear does not. Every year you will need to apply another coat of Gloss. If you have any scratch or ding repairs, keep a plastic bottle with your 50/50 mixture and a small disposable brush on hand to fix promptly. Don't worry about the Gloss coats on the repair unless it is a large scratch.

[Michael Abramson]

What is your sanding process before the first thinned coat of the Cetol Light? Are you sanding back to clean wood, scouring and light sanding, etc. I would love to see photos of the finished product. Thanks.

Michael

[carsail1260]

I sand bare wood with 120, then 220 sand paper. I use a few Swifter sheets to pick up the remaining dust before I start. That's it. That's why I love Cetol. I learned this from a lady with a gorgeous 34 Pacific Seacraft. I always had thought she varnished, but she has owned the boat for 11 years & has always done it this way. She only took the teak back to bare wood with a scraper & a heat gun(another reason I like Cetol!)one time & that was 6 years ago. She has about 10 coats of gloss on hers now & it still looks beautiful. I will try and post pictures. I don't know how to post inside a thread but I might be able to send a link.

[Bill Sonntag]

All:

Regardless of which finish you choose, be sure to follow all instructions regarding ventilation and preventing prolonged inhalation or dermal exposures; request a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) from the manufacturer and be particularly careful with finishes that are isocyanate based. And before I'm labeled too much of a drudge - I love the smell of fresh phenolic resin varnish!

Bill Sonntag
SURPRISE
CD31