Our Yachts are getting older...check your hoses.........

[Michael Heintz]

It was a simple matter of changing the oil.......engine running when I popped the engine hatch.....I detected an unusual amount of water under the engine....now I know I have a more than healthy drip from the stuffing box and will attend to that BUT......now I jammed myself into the inspection hatch in my quarterberth...and discovered a steady stream of water coming in from the aft....MMMMMMMMMM sez I....emptied the aft lazerett and there it was ....water spuing from the engine exhaust hose.

A Bit__ of a job....trying to switch out 12.5 feet of 1 7/8 hose from water muffler to exit fitting....The job is done....multible arm scraches.....some extensive bleeding involved....considerable cuss words ....and then finally a Bourbon........amazing what Jim can do for you...

Point being ....check dem hoses man...

m

[Wayne Grenier]

not only will water leak from the exhaust hose-but carbon monixde as well!

[Carter Brey]

A very timely post, Michael. I had an extremely similar thing happen to me last week.

Delphine (built in 1982) was launched on Monday of last week. I made it up to the mooring three days later. All seemed well as I boarded, and as a routine thing I lifted the floorboards in the cabin to look into the bilge. I went numb as I saw that seawater had risen nearly to the level of the cabin sole. That's a lot of gallons of water.

My first thought was that the stuffing box was to blame, but I knew this had to be very unlikely as I had repacked and adjusted it with Gortex GFO last year. Indeed it was not leaking, but to make absolutely sure I started the engine and put it in gear. Nothing.

Further poking around the engine compartment finally revealed the culprit: the raw water intake hose. It had rotted down at the seacock end, and a wide crack in the rubber next to a hose clamp was letting in a steady trickle. The yard guys had opened all the seacocks to check for leaks, and this one had escaped their attention. When they left the boat they left the seacocks open and did not put the bilge pump on automatic. If I had arrived a day or two later, the best case scenario would have been extensive water damage to the interior teak which I had just refinished. Worst case... well, we won't go there.

Of course, leaving the bilge pump on auto might have disguised the problem just enough that I might have missed the problem only to have the batteries fail a while later, with the worst case scenario following quickly thereafter. All's well that ends well.

I installed a new hose within the hour, and I left the boat that day with a renewed sense of how important it is to close all seacocks when leaving the boat, with the exception of the cockpit scuppers.

So, yes... check those hoses. And maintain and close the seacocks.

Thanks,
Carter

[Sea Hunt]

Hello Carter:

As you read this, remember that I am a "newbie" and do not yet own a sailboat. You may laugh/snicker in a low tone similar to that which one would use in a concert hall.

I looked at a CD 27 some time ago and, as I recall, it had some type of a "counter" connected to the bilge pump. The owner explained that because he had the CD 27 on a mooring, he wanted or needed to know how often the auto bilge pump kicked on. He explained that if it cycled on 2-3 times over a few days that was normal - no worries. If it had cycled on 25-30 times then he would know he had a leak somewhere.

Would some type of a bilge cycling "counter" have helped in your situation When (not if) I get my CD it looks I will be at a mooring for the few 2-3 years and am concerned that if I am away from her for 3-4 days at a time, the same might happen. Is a bilge cycling "counter" a good thing or an unnecessary gadget

What do others do

Fair winds,

[chase]

Making a note to check all hoses.

Sea Hunt, I do not have a counter but would in a heartbeat if they were only $15. They're pricier than you'd think. I have a dry boat so if it cycled once or twice over a month period I'd be surprised. I can tell if the water gets up, anyway.

In Delphine's case, since the pump wasn't going to come on period, it could not have counted the cycles. Good thing Carter checked the bilges upon arrival. I always get the light and look in there after being away and also daily while voyaging. I especially like to keep an eye on it when I'm on a long motoring leg. The alarm feature is possible to miss when you've got the hammer down on the diesel so I like to peek in when I go below. I drive my crew nuts. Usually just me.

Carter, on my boat the bilge switch is above the submersible RULE and it has to get fairly high to kick in. It never does take it down low enough like the other pumps on board for it to not induce at least slight panic if I look in the bilge. Since you check your bilge straight off, would you have noticed then with your setup? I think that was a big mistake on the yard's part to put a boat in without turning on a bilge pump. Some of these boats at the marinas are cycling constantly. If it were one of those, it’d sunk. As you said, all's well!


Chase

[mahalocd36]

The yard guys had opened all the seacocks to check for leaks, and this one had escaped their attention. When they left the boat they left the seacocks open and did not put the bilge pump on automatic.

Gee - do they teach all the boatyards to do this at a special school somewhere? (leave all seacocks open and not put the bilge pump on). This is at least the 3rd time I've heard this (us being the first). With us, there was a fresh water leak, a slow drip, so it wasn't a big deal, luckily we were at the boat the day after launch.

Sea Hunt - we added a bilge counter on Mahalo. I don't think it matters if on a mooring or in a slip - it's been very useful. The first year it told us our float switch wasn't located properly. (Just a little water in the bilge would kick it on as the boat rocked around). Since then it's been useful if only to give us confidence we don't have leaks It's useful when on the boat as well - especially with the engine running, you don't hear it, and if you are on deck, you don't see the red light. So we make a habit of checking it whenever we are down in the cabin to use the head, get food, or whatever (it's easy to see as you are going back up the companionway stairs). We physically check the bilge daily as well, but with the counter you know exactly when/if the pump kicked on.

Rich isn't here right now, but tomorrow he'll post the source for our counter. It's not a marine store counter, it's a cheap counter from an electronics part place - like on the order of $20 if I remember correctly. It has lasted for 4 years now.

[Michael Heintz]

Carter,

OMG.... I would not want to see the level of water in the bilge get that high.

There is nothing more important than getting into a routine that involves checking out your yacht. Checking bilge, inspecting engine compartment.

Lessons learned....no matter how good your yard is....DO NOT TRUST THEM........seacocks should have been closed........pump turned on.

I'm lucky my yard is a mere 5 min drive away...so I always go down on launch day to inspect. I realize that's not possible for a lot of folks.

I hear you on the pump masking the problem.........perhaps that bilge counter is a good idea.........

Most important though is vigilance on inspecting your yacht......The buck stops at the Captain.

Carter, hope to see you at Oyster Bay on the 4th.!!!!

[Warren Kaplan]

Lessons learned....no matter how good your yard is....DO NOT TRUST THEM

Ah My Captain Mike Heintz......so SO true. As you know I have nothing but good things to say about the service and skill of the guys running Oyster Bay Marine Center. They are truly top flight. But even they can pull a bonehead play sometimes.

This year they told me when my CD27 was being put in the water. I arrived there in the afternoon of the next day to see her bobbing happily at her mooring. I took the launch out ready to do some further commissioning. All was well but imagine my surprise when I looked in the battery compartment and I found that the batteries that the yard stored over the winter were NOT installed!!

Whoa! Having the bilge pump switch on automatic was totally useless if the boat leaked. Obviously I took the next launch in and had a "conversation" with the yard manager. The batteries were scheduled to be installed that day.

[Sea Hunt]

Hello Melissa:

Yes, the counter I saw on the CD27 was a small plastic unit, perhaps 3" x 3". I recall the owner said it was only about $15-$20 when he bought it - several years ago I think.

To my "tadpole" brain it seemed like a good idea.

Fair winds,

[Michael Heintz]

Warren,

There you have it....good yard...attentive owner....and still....a mistake.

I happen to be incredibly hands on with Macht Nichts. And lucky enough to be close and able to check on my yacht daily.

Again, good routines, a heads up attitude to maintaining and being responsible for your yacht......We are the Captains of our Yachts and the responsibility is ours..

Macht Nichts........

[Carter Brey]

Would some type of a bilge cycling "counter" have helped in your situation When (not if) I get my CD it looks I will be at a mooring for the few 2-3 years and am concerned that if I am away from her for 3-4 days at a time, the same might happen. Is a bilge cycling "counter" a good thing or an unnecessary gadget

Know what I would do, given more free time and electronic smarts? Some kind of link to a device that would send a text message to my cell phone every time the float switch went on. Repeated cycling would result in a call to the yard or a trip up myself.

Anyone?

[Michael Heintz]

your in the middle of a performance and .........text ...text...(don't know much about texting) mmmmmmm guess you'd just have to get up and exit stage left....


Macht Nichts.....

[Dave Jeffery]

This Spring I had the yard remove the old gate valves and hoses of my CD 25 and replace them with bronze sea cocks and new double-clamped hoses.

One hole in the hull was left, so I had the revolving wheel (or whatever it's called in nauticalese) for the knot meter removed, the hole filled and glassed over. I don't miss it, since I'm guessing my speed is typically between stopped and six knots. More than seven knots and I'm probably in some kind of serious trouble.

A final check is the depth at my dock, which is approximately 3.5 feet MLW. So if I sink at home, I'm not going to be under by much.

[bottomscraper]

Rich isn't here right now, but tomorrow he'll post the source for our counter. It's not a marine store counter, it's a cheap counter from an electronics part place - like on the order of $20 if I remember correctly. It has lasted for 4 years now.

Well Melissa has a memory with rose colored glasses, yes it was a bit cheaper than the "made for boats" ones but it was more like $45. It is an Omron H7EC that I purchased from Mouser Electronics. It looks like the price is up a bit now. I think the particular one we have is a H7EC-NFV-B. It's a bit hard to mount and the unlit led display is a bit hard to read.

The good news is that Water Witch has some new counters out there that I would consider if I was doing it today:

http://www.waterwitchinc.com/products.html

I haven't heard anything good about the Weems & Plath counter.

[Oswego John]

I'd like to mention two things in regard to taking on water. They don't pertain to boatyard boo-boos, but when the boat is resting at a mooring or tied up in a slip.

There are at least two schools of thought in regard to bilge pumps and their actuators. Some people believe in utter simplicity, while others use a variety of gadgets and gizmos for controlling their pump(s). The former group feels that the less complicated a circuit is, the less things that could go wrong.

I used a combination of basic components when installing pump setups. Quite often, I would install a low volume pump with it's own float switch, secured in the lowest part of the bilge. In addition, I would install a second, high volume, backup pump. This larger pump would have it's float switch positioned higher than the small pump.. The large pump would only kick in if the smaller pump couldn't handle the job.

Both pumps had off/on/auto control switches. They each had a different colored pilot light to signal being in use. The major factor between the two pumps and their associated, independent circuits was that when the larger pump actuated, it would electrically trigger a loud, high pitched piezo tweeter that outscreamed a wailing banshee. This audible warning could be heard all over the anchorage.

The second thing I will mention is the importance of an accurate waterline/boot top. The yacht club that I was associated with had a policy for the dock master to scan the anchorage with binoculars, looking for boats that appeared low in the water. This was to be done several times a day, including the first thing in the morning. The tender operator was to be observant while doing his thing. This policy worked well. With a true waterline, it is easy to tell if a boat is down in the bow or it's stern. We also kept a small gas powered pump on board the tender, which several times saved some beautiful yachts from going under.

I guess that the point that I'm trying to make is that if trouble can be detected early on, it's a lot easier to rectify the problem before it gets out of hand.

Just my $.02 worth.
O J