Moving the boom/gooseneck up the mast on a CD 25D

[Sea Hunt]

I am considering plans to drive/fly to look at a 1982 CD 25D.

The owner has sent me several photographs, etc. of this CD 25D. She looks nice and well cared for.

I have learned of a modification to the spars/mainsail that I have not seen before.

I would appreciate the input of experienced CD owners, especially those who own(ed) a CD 25D.

The owner (who is the original owner ) advises that he moved the gooseneck and boom up the mast about one foot (1 ft) to allow for additional headroom under the bimini he installed. He advises that the reduction in mainsail area is minimal and that this does not have any discernible impact on sailing characteristics.

As I am a "newbie" in every sense of the word, I ask for your help and advise.

Do you think such a modification would impact sailing characteristics, pointing ability, sail trim, balance between mainsail and jib/genoa

If so, in what way would it do so

Is it something I should be concerned about

Also, if and when it becomes time to buy a new mainsail, how difficult will it be to get one that fits the new measurements

Any other thoughts, etc., about this will be VERY MUCH appreciated.

The search continues

Fair winds,

Robert

[rtbates]

Probably sails better. The 25D needs very little in the way of main. On Seraph, I simply recut the main's foot to raise the clew about 8" to clear my dodger/bimini. Much easier.

You'll never miss the lost mainsail area I assure you.

Good luck. Hope she's a winner for you

as for a new sail, hopefully a sail maker will measure anyway and make to fit. IF you get a stock 25D main, just have a sailmaker recut to fit. Loose foot also works very well.

[Bill Cochrane]

In theory, reducing the main area by raising the foot of the sail will move the center of effort up and forward; moving the CE forward will reduce weather helm and possibly introduce lee helm..,not a good thing. In practice this will depend on the relative sizes of the main and foresail.

A related effect, raising the CE, will make the boat more tender. This will cause weather helm as she puts her rail down, so the two effects may cancel each other.

A good sea trial under varying wind conditions would show you if the helm will balance between a beat and a reach. Off the wind it won't have much effect.

[drb9]

This is the exact modification I considered a number of years ago to my CD26. When I raise the main, there's about a foot at the top that the sail could be raised higher, but for the location of the gooseneck. I figured that I could just remount the gooseneck without recutting the sail. I haven't gotten around to doing this, but maybe this is all that the current owner did. It sure would be nice to have some additional room under the boom.

[barfwinkle]

My first concern would be what is the difference between the raised goose neck and the designed height of the first reef on the main? How much sail area does this alteration remove from the main and how will that affect light air sailing?

Getting a new sail cut to the modified deminsions would not be a problem, however, removing any area from the main will reduce light air performance, IMHO.

[Gary M]

Sea Hunt,

You must be as excited as a young boy at Christmas time to find a 1982 CD25D being sold by the original owner. That is something you don't see very often.

I would be excited. Someone bought the boat and kept it all these years. Chances are he took care of it. You'll find out soon enough.

So consider this. In your sailing area would you enjoy the bimini?

If the bimini is something you would enjoy then there is no issue.

I'm assuming one foot was cut from the bottom of the sail. My first question would be what kind of winds will you be sailing in?

If your area always gives you light air, you may decide someday to get rid of the bimini and get your self a new sail. All things being equal, no problem.

I've heard you call yourself a new bee many times here. One foot off the bottom of a main sail might be a really nice thing for you as you get used to your new boat. You can always get a new or used main later.

I would consider the issue insignificant when making the decision to buy the boat. A CD25D is really nice, and the original owner might mean you have something special on the line.

Gary

[Dean Abramson]

Robert,

I am not an expert, but, as you know, I did own a 25D. I doubt that that mod will have much/any effect on performance. Sounds like it could be a boat worth pursuing if it's in good shape. It's hard to beat a nice 25D. Good luck.

Dean

[Dick Barthel]

Sea Hunt:

I can't imagine it will effect performance much and as a newbie you have expressed a concern about total sail area any how. I would go with Randy's opinion regarding performance since he is a very experienced CD25D sailor.

Sail with it for a few years and if you decide you want or need more light wind performance, get rid of the arrangement and go back to the original set up. In my part of the country you don't really need a bimini. I did have my dodger made as high as possible considering the original boom height. With the sail cover on I just take up on the topping lift a bit to make sure there is no chafing.

In my humble opinion if you can get a well cared for 25D at a good price this particular iteration should not even be a consideration in a purchase decision. I think a 25D would be the perfect boat for you. A 25 would be my next choice for you considering all of your prior posts. Both are great boats.

But consider if you buy this boat you are going to lose your unique standing on our board as the ultimate hunter of boats.

Good luck and I say full speed ahead.

Dick

[Neil Gordon]

... you are going to lose your unique standing on our board as the ultimate hunter of boats.

Better to be a boat hunter than a Hunter boater, at least as far as the folks around here are concerned.

[Bill Goldsmith]

My prior owner raised the boom and recut the foot of the main on my 32 for exactly the same reason. I do not think performance has suffered. Moreover, it adds an extra safety margin because I sail with kids and often with non-sailor guests who tend to forget about staying low when tacking!

[Dick Kobayashi]

Buy it, The shortened sail will not make any realistic difference. dk

[Joe Myerson]

Sea Hunt:

End your endless hunt for a boat!

As the enthusiastic owner of 1982 25D, all I can do is second what everybody else on this board is saying: If the boat is sound, raising the gooseneck won't make much difference in the way she handles. (But do get her surveyed!)

And, you'll probably want a bimini in Florida, anyway.

Sounds like the you've got your chance to join the Dorians for real.

Do it!

Best of luck!

--Joe

[carsail1260]

Hi Robert,
We shortened our main's clew 6 inches to accomodate our bimini. This is quite common in our neck of the woods. I just talked to Gregg at Quantum Sails who built our sails and asked him about moving the boom. He said it is better to raise the topping lift as we did on ours because raising the entire boom will change the center of gravity & thus effect the helm, especially noticeable on our size boat.
Carolyn
1983 Cape Dory 25D "YOLO"

[John Vigor]

Poor Robert. Who's he to believe? Raising the boom will give you weather helm, say some. Raising the boom will give you lee helm, say some. Raising the boom will make the boat more tender, say some. Raising the boom will raise the center of gravity, say some.

Poor Robert. All he wanted was some sound advice, and suddenly everybody's an expert, and everybody's got a different expert opinion.

Robert's problem is that he actually knows too much. He's asking esoteric questions that wouldn't occur to beginners. He is spilling over with book knowledge and lacking practical experience.

Robert, I'm with those who say raising the boom 12 inches won't make one bit of difference to safety or anything else you mentioned. You may lose a tiny bit of speed on a reach or run, but I can't see any other problem.

The only piece of advice I have for you is not to be too afraid to make mistakes. We all do, even the experts. The person who never made a mistake never made anything.

I can tell you from personal experience that after making a couple of mistakes, you get quite relaxed about it. It becomes the norm, and any voyage or maneuver that you accidentally accomplish without a mistake becomes a joyous aberration to be celebrated among friends with dark-and-stormies and shouts of unbelieving laughter.

Cheers,

John V.

[Sea Hunt]

Mr. Vigor:

I very much appreciate your kind words. I respectfully disagree with one part of your assessment of me. I am a very, very long way from "spilling over with book knowledge". While I try to read as much as I can, very little of it actually sinks in. As "the Admiral" so lovingly reminds me -"Robert, you are definitely not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree."

As you may know, I became interested in Cape Dory sailboats after reading your book "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere" (Ed. 1999). It is now well worn and heavily annotated by me.

I very much appreciate as well the comments and suggestions of others who responded. Given my very limited abilities and knowledge (book and practical), from what I have learned, it seems like whatever differences there may be in moving the boom up one (1) foot, they are differences I will not notice at my "tadpole" level.

Accordingly, I do not think it will affect my decision of whether or not to inspect this CD 25D and/or make on offer to buy her. There are too many other factors to consider and ponder - purchase price, getting insurance, figuring out how to get her to Miami (truck her or sail/motor her down ICW), finding dockage or a mooring (big problem), etc., etc., etc.

I will try to remember to keep this board posted on developments with this CD 25D.

Fair winds,

P.S. I read "Poor Robert" a few times and thought of the former female Governor of Texas Anne Richards chiding George Bush at the Democratic Convention in 2000 with lines like "Poor George, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth."