Wind force: thrill or terror? Input please!

[Judith]

As a newbie sailor, I'm fairly cautious. So I thought I'd solicit board members' personal reactions/advice regarding predicted wind speeds.

We've been out in what the "official" sites describe as a 'fresh breeze' and found ourselves thinking, "We shoulda stayed at the slip!" And while dipping the rail is kinda exhilarating, we generally react half "Wahooooo!" and half "UH-oh, this shouldn't be happening!"

Here's how one 'official' site defines wind speeds (Beaufort Scale):

FORCE EQUIVALENT SPEED DESCRIPTION SPECIFICATIONS FOR USE ON LAND
10 m above ground
miles/hour knots
0) 0-1 0-1 Calm Calm; smoke rises vertically.
1) 1-3 1-3 Light air Direction of wind shown by
smoke drift, but not by wind
vanes.
2) 4-7 4-6 Light Breeze Wind felt on face; leaves
rustle; ordinary vanes moved
by wind.
3) 8-12 7-10 Gentle Breeze Leaves and small twigs in
constant motion; wind extends
light flag.
4) 13-18 11-16 Moderate Breeze Raises dust and loose paper;
small branches are moved.
5) 19-24 17-21 Fresh Breeze Small trees in leaf begin to
sway; crested wavelets form on
inland waters.
6) 25-31 22-27 Strong Breeze Large branches in motion;
whistling heard in telegraph
wires; umbrellas used with
difficulty.
7) 32-38 28-33 Near Gale Whole trees in motion;
inconvenience felt when walking
against the wind.
8) 39-46 34-40 Gale Breaks twigs off trees;
generally impedes progress.


What does your personal chart look like? "#5 = sporting, this is fun, #6 = yahoooo!" or what? I'd really welcome the perspective. Thanks! ("Gale: impedes progress." Gotta love that one, no?)

[Russell]

Early on in your sailing the higher end of "safe" sailing conditions can be intimidating. It involves things like reefing and more attension to sail trim. Have no doubt, your Cape Dory can handle 20 knots of wind without problem, but it will certainly be a more intense ride. Cape Dorys are solid sea boats, but they are also tender boats which like a reef early.

If you dipped the rail at all, it should be for one of two reasons: 1) You were out for a trill ride and wanted to dip it, or 2) You did not put in a reef when you should have.

I sail in 20 knots of wind much of the time, as thats what the caribbean tradewinds tend to be. To tell you the truth, my boat has had the first reef tucked in for the last 14 months or so, literally that reef has not come out at all in that time. When I go out and its only blowing 12, I dont take the reef out, as I know soon it will be blowing 17.

You will find that not only your boat sails faster when you reef early, but its more comfortable and easy to control. If you have any nervousness at all while sailing, reef more, furl up more head sail and tuck in the second reef even. Even if it means your undercanvassed, we are out to sail for fun, not for fear. I think you will find, when reducing canvas signigantly you may come to enjoy the fresh breeze even more then hte calmer days. You will no longer say "we should have stayed in the slip" rather you will say "well darn, the slip is the hard part now! we better anchor out, its too windy to slip the boat, what a great day".

Cape Dorys do like a lot of wind, but being tender boats they get overwhelmed quickly and are easily overcanvassed. 2 reefs in the main and full staysail and no jib is one of my boats favorite sail combinations.

[fenixrises]

Hi Judith,

Force 1 usually equals iron topsail if you need to get somewhere.
Water is smooth.

Force 2 can mean delightful sailing but only if the seas are calm and you have a drifter or assym spin and are in no particular hurry.
Water shows "Cat's Paws"

Force 3 Now we're sailing. All plain sail up and maybe even an 1.5oz spin or drifter. Usually means moderate seas and good all around sailing.
"Pop corn" seas are starting. That is small white caps.

Force 4 For many boats hull speed is near and a very good day's run is possible. Now starts the time when off the wind sailing is usually better than close reaching. With Cape Dory's its time to reef the main and if on the wind use a smaller head sail.
Waves are building and white caps are prevalent.

Force 5 Now we're smoking. Definitely time for a reefed main and smaller headsails. Good sailing but the boat's motion can start to be a bit much.
Seas starting to build and crest. 6' seas common. "White horses" are the common phrase.

Force 6. No way we're going to windward honey. Can be a real blast when properly canvassed off the wind. Surfing a real potential.
Seas 8' or more. In the early stages "Greenies" are forming.
("Greenies" are when the cresting waves get steep enough to see sunlight through the tops. The color is a destinctive green.)

Force 7 or more is time for storm sails. Also hope you have enough sea room to run off. Not pleasant but unless it gets seriously nasty not unsafe when hove-to.
Seas over 8', white water constant.

So far on my trip I have encountered everything up to 50 knots(for very short periods). Trade wind sailing, as Russell states, is often in winds from 20 - 35 knots. If your going with it its not too bad except on smaller boats the motion can get a little wild.

I met a guy in Whangarei who singlehands a Tartan 27. That is very similar to your boat. He has been out cruising for something like 15+ years and is over 60. So you can do it too.

Take care, have fun
Fred

[neil]

Ok here it is:

0) 0-1 0-1 Calm:
"bloody !@#$, someone get out and push!" In Key West I have actually used the current to generate enough apparent wind so I could steer.

1) 1-3 1-3 Light air:
This sort of thing taught me to sail well but its still BORRRRRRING. This leads to heavy drinking.

2) 4-7 4-6 Light Breeze:
"Well at least I can steer!" You dont have to worry about your drink tipping over.

3) 8-12 7-10 Gentle Breeze:
"Hay we are moving!" Might want to keep a hand on your beer.

4) 13-18 11-16 Moderate Breeze:
"This is more like it" Beers tip over and beer bottles get smashed

5) 19-24 17-21 Fresh Breeze:
I want this all the time. This is how you get places, the Skipper should stop drinking.

6) 25-31 22-27 Strong Breeze:
I want this all the time as well, and I dont like umbrellas, I like rain. Start reefing. Seasickness prone people are screwed. The skipper needs to be sober.

7) 32-38 28-33 Near Gale:
"Wooo Weee!" Keep reefing. Seasick people do unprintable things. Frightened people get frightened. Drunk skippers need replacing.

8) 39-46 34-40 Gale:
Fully reefed, Im happy, Seasick people need to be kept away from guns and things they can hurt them selves with. If the skipper is drunk at this point arm everyone else (except the seasick ones) and clap him in irons.

This list goes on to describe even bigger weather but beyond this you are on your own, in Key West the Coast Guard evacuates before everyone else and they take their boats with them.

If you are ever concerned that you boat wont take what you are doing to it, start reefing or even taking down sails if you need too. Having the toe rail under IS fun but its not any faster, and may not be good for the boat.

Cheers,
Neil

[David van den Burgh]

Judith,

Russell and Fred are, not surprisingly, dead on.

As Fred said, sailing to windward in stronger winds is a chore and makes the old adage even more meaningful: "Gentlemen (Ladies, in your case) never sail to weather." We were part way across Lake Michigan when the wind blew up to a steady 35-40 knots. After beating into steep 8' seas under double-reefed main and staysail for a couple of hours and getting soaked, we changed course, doused main and staysail, threw up the yankee, and ran with the wind. The ride was still pretty exciting, but it wasn't nearly as wet or as tiring as pounding into wind and wave for hours on end. That was an exhilarating trip, but not what I'd call fun.

If I had to choose a velocity range for most of my sailing, I'd choose something around Force 4, approximately 12-15 knots.

[Neil Gordon]

We've been out in what the "official" sites describe as a 'fresh breeze' and found ourselves thinking, "We shoulda stayed at the slip!"

Sailing is like skiing. The more experience you have, the steeper/faster you can go.

As others have said, it's about adjusting sails to meet the conditions. First and foremost is learning how to reef. Reduce the size of the main and the boat will calm down, heel less, be more under control and (this is the amazing part) actually sail faster.

Practice reefing on a day when you don't need to.

[barfwinkle]

"Gentlemen (Ladies, in your case) never sail to weather."

Once upon a time I was fortunate enough to sail in the big right hand pond and our course was approximately 176° and you might guess the wind was from approximately 180° +/- a bit.

The winds were 35-45 range with reported gust to 50+ (reported on the weather nets), and we were in the Gulf Stream. The pounding was unbelievable! The noise below decks was horrendous, but topside all seemed right, albeit a bit choppy (30+ ft seas), with the world.

That is when I found the true meaning of the David's quote above. We did it, but it was not always pleasant. And remember a well found CD it truly a tough and great boat. It is the crew's limitations that come into question.

FAIR winds

[Cathy Monaghan]

Hi Judith,

You Cape Dory can handle greater than Force 8 winds. But there certainly is a learning curve for any sailor, especially daysailors who usually only take the boat out when it's "nice" out. I think we all learn something new every time we take our boats out.

The only way to learn how to deal with heavy weather, is to get out there and sail in it. But I wouldn't do it unless I could safely negotiate my way out of our slip without being plastered up against a neighboring boat, piling, or whatever else might be around to hit. If you keep your boat on a mooring in a protected harbor, it should be alot easier to make a clean escape.

Your mainsail should have 3 sets of reefing points, no less than 2 sets. And your headsails need to be reefable as well. If your boat is cutter-rigged, that's even better, since when the 2nd reef goes into the main, you completely roll up the headsail and use the staysail instead. The staysail should also have at least 1 set of reefing points in it so that it can be reefed as well. If it is on roller furling, you can roll up as much as is needed.

In a Fresh Breeze, you should have at least one reef in the main. If the winds are steady, you may not have to change your headsails. If it's gusty, take down the staysail or partially roll up the headsail, or both. And don't forget about the traveller controls. The mainsheet traveller car should be moved to leeward.

Anyway, 20-25 knot winds should be a piece of cake for your CD. The boat can handle it, you just need to bring yourselves up to speed and that takes practice. So get out there, and have fun.

Fair winds (...or m aybe a blow)
Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Greg Kozlowski]

On our Cape Dory 36 cutter, the bullshit force scale goes something like this:


0) to 1) forgetaboutit

2) 4-7 4-6 maybe, but let's wait a bit to see if it picks up

3) 8-12 7-10 We're moving. What do ya want. (under full sail)

4) 13-18 11-16 There is heaven on earth. (under full sail)

5) 19-24 17-21 We're smokin baby (one reef in main)

6) 25-31 22-27 Damn we're smokin baby!! (yankee rolled in a bit and thinking about second reef in main)

7) 32-38 28-33 Man are we ever smokin! (a bit of yankee still, staysail and second reef in the main)

8) 39-46 34-40 She's good! No worries love. (Under staysail only and third reef in the main or regretting I waited this long)

Throw in FETCH and WAVE ACTION and it's a different story, though. Most likely a different destination, too, by force 8.

[mahalocd36]

Hey Judith,
I think you already know your boat can handle it, you are just
wondering about what other people think is fun vs. scary.
Everyone is different and your level of tolerance increases as
your experience and confidence does. Kind of like what Neil said about skiing.

I'm a fair weather sailor and the first to admit it. My take on it is that I work hard all week, and sailing is my time to relax and have fun. What's fun is different for different people. Me, I'm not a big fan of rail in the water sailing. We sail with a dog on board and he doesn't like it much either. 10-15 knots is perfect. Actually we found that Mahalo actually sails faster, more comfortable and easier to steer with less sail up as the wind picks up above that. Yeah, sometimes there will be people out there with more sail up than us but I don't care. And if the forecast is for 30 knots, we don't go out for a daysail. But frankly I don't see too many people doing so. It's my weekend, and I'd rather relax reading a book or playing cards while enjoying some beverages in port than getting wet, tired and uncomfortable. Now, getting caught out in it, or on a passage or trying to get somewhere, or in an area where that's the standard windspeed, that's a different story. Reef early!

Melissa

[Dick Barthel]

Judith,

I'm sure there are a lot of newbies and relative newbies (me) who appreciate your post and all the answers you got from some of the board veterans. This year I'm working on my solo skills and I plan to be reefed as a main course. By the end of the summer I'll be hiked out with the rail buried....not.

Dick

[Dalton]

It reminds me of a a trip 20 years ago where four of us were sailing my Alberg 35 Cygnus out of Sandy Hook NJ with no real plan except to get as far east as quickly as possible and then start home, hopefully riding the fronts. Weather looked ok so we went "outside" along the coast of Long Island. We had always hoped that one of these trips we'll do Nantucket non-stop in 40 hours. 24 hours out, as we approached Block Island at sunset, VHF weather radio called for 20 knots out of the north, all night. Wow, a beam reach, we could be there in the morning! So instead of pulling into the comfort of Block we continued on a course east, south of No Mans Land and a second night out. Needless to say the weatherman was wrong and after a few hours it was blowing 30 - 40 out of the NNE. So instead of falling off into the north Atlantic or turning back to Block we decided to harden up and beat into Vinyard Haven Sound, we could do it on one tack and be well up into the Sound by sunrise. Back to the thread: The comfort level aboard was directly relative to experience. Captain John, my sailing mentor, with 20 years of experience was merely uncomfortable. He was navigating and cooking, keeping me fed and informed between periods wedged into the stbd qtr berth. I had the second most experience and steered for 6 hours trying to keep a compromise course between going to fast and feathering to much. Once in a while she would fly off the waves and roll over in the wind and land square on her forward topsides with such a slam I was worried something was going to break. Nothing did, Peter, the third most experienced was simply sick as a dog. He had sailed with John and me before and knew we'd probably survive. Jack, the least experienced aboard was also sick and later admitted he thought he was going to die

But we made it, and my next boat was another Alberg!

[neil]

Back to the thread: The comfort level aboard was directly relative to experience. Captain John, my sailing mentor, with 20 years of experience was merely uncomfortable.

This is an excellent point, and despite the relative silliness of my earlier post, Dalton is exactly correct.
What I enjoy about sailing is not the same as what others enjoy.
Different people respond to different conditions in a wide variety of ways and to different boats in the same conditions differently.
My Girlfriend Donna loved bad weather, heeling a lot and large chop in our ComPac 16 and would hang out in the cockpit and have a blast, under the same conditions in our CD25 she gets sick and heads for the cabin to lie down... I dont have any idea why.
The Important thing to remember is that you are out there to enjoy your self, and should do what ever it takes to make that happen:
If the wind kicks up its better to reef early and stay comfortable than try to deal with it with a sick crew, its also safer. Obviously there are conditions that are just rotten, for example here in the Keys if you go out in the Gulf Stream with a 20 knot East wind and try to go east you are going to have a nasty bit of fun.

One thing that can help a lot is keeping people busy, sitting around waiting for your stomach to stop "doing that horrible thing" dosent work. I have never (so far) seen the person at the helm get sick.
On a sloop you can have one person tend the main, one person tend the jib and another can navigate all sorts of course corrections in an attempt to find a less stressful point of sail that will still get you where you are going. Also try getting the least comfortable people to steer, this can (hopefully) take their minds off being green and wanting to die. Keep busy even if you have to make up things for people to do.

Again, you are out to have fun, its not like you have some shipping company devouring your profit if you are late.

Next time you can get out in a strong wind (Im not saying that you should go storm chasing here!) and the waves are kicking up try out as many points of sail as you can and see how your boat responds. Look at how things feel topside and in the cabin while doing this, that way when you are forced to have to sail in nasty weather you will have some idea of what to expect and will have an idea of the best way to calm things down in the boat.
As for your boat it self, watch it and listen to it: when you get used to all the noise it makes you will notice new stuff instantly.

Cape Dories are tough boats, Mine has been through eight hurricanes on her mooring since I have had her, and several others prior to that. The only damage that happened to her was to the Bimini, during Hurricane Katrina it turned into a ball of blue fuzzy lint with zippers sticking out. Oh... that and somehow my waterproof charts got wet (I still dont know how that happened)


Cheers,
Neil.

[Dalton]

When I finally bought my first "big" boat, an Alberg 35, Capn' John started coming out for one week every year. 20 years now. On those early trips I thought he was crazy. Going outside LI in 6 - 8 foot seas and 15 - 20 know SW winds. Later riding the fronts back west down LI Sound in 20-30 knot plus nor easters. To put it simply: To be comfortable in 20 - 30 knots you have to experience 30 - 40. And on your boat. The confidence factor grows and grows. In both yourself and your boat. And if you're lucky enough to have someone you trust help push your "envelope" it can accelerate that process. Maybe to a point you cannot even imagine now.

[Warren Kaplan]

I won't repeat what others have said...all true. Sailing doesn't have to have a macho philosophy attached to it. You should sail your boat to be safe and comfortable.

I will repeat that a boat more "on its feet" performs better and faster than a boat with the lee rail buried. I agree that around 12 knots of wind is perfect conditions for my CD27. I reef early. I have found that the helm balance, speed and over all sailing is much better when the wind gets into the high teens and twenties with one or two reefs in and the headsail possibly reduced. Try it. You'll like it.

One other consideration. Some people get the willies when having to go forward from the cockpit to reef sails in conditions that..uh...required reefing. The deck might be pitching somewhat and the deck may be wet from spray. Not very comforting. I know I wasn't happy doing that much. So I brought my reefing lines and main halyard back to the cockpit and can reef the main from there. I have to tell you no more anxiety about going forward in strong wind makes a big difference. That, and a furling headsail, makes even single handed sailing in strong wind pretty easy. So consider that too!