Didereaux, John Vigor and everyone else remember this topic?

[neil]

I have missed you guys, I hope things have been going well for you!

I am making progress.......
And John, I read your book (again and again).... I love the book and hate the amount of work its inspired.... actually I love it but its taking forever.

So far I have (or will):

Rebuilt the backing plates for my shrouds with 2" thick Ipe planks and enormous washers and am upping the gauge of my wire.

Replaced all standing (see above) and running rigging.

Sanded off all paint on the hull, top and bottom to check for problems, the bottom paint was almost 1/4 inch thick!
Topside will be sprayed with PPG paint by a friend of mine Jim Allen who is VERY good, the topside is as smooth as it was when she was new. (at least after all that work I like to think so!)

Did a wee bit of fairing with West System and cavosil.

Got too many "experts" to recomend barrier coats and so am doing three things:
3 layers of West System.
3 layers of Glovit.
3 layers of Interprotect 2000 microplate.
THAT better do the trick.

I am installing 4" cockpit drains (yes John, bronze thru-hulls), and using a bit of the motor well as a drain as well by cutting a slot flush with the cabin sole and making a fiberglass chute down the well with a flap to prevent water from coming in the wrong way. The rest of the well will be glassed over and become a lazzerett.

Glassing in the cheesy bulkheads between the cabin and the cockpit lockers with 4 layers of heavy cloth. (on both sides)

Installing a compression post and replacing those hideous bulkheads with some stunning mahogany planks I happen to have.
(on the inside where they form the door to the head they will be curved so as to open up the cockpit and leave room to get around the compression post.

Replaced all wires and EVERYTHING electrical, (oh my god that was fun!) and waterproofed the snot out of them all. Wire and its assorted connectors is surprisingly expensive!

I am not sure what to do about the bridge deck issue but I am epoxying in the bottom drop board at the very least....

I have yet to work out the head.... not my favorite subject....

For fresh watter I am installing 2 25 gallon flexible bladder type tanks (I am not yet sure where to put them but VERY low is obvious) and using the V berth and its tank for storage and a chart table, if I get ambitious I might figure out how to gimbal the whole thing... maybe.... would be nice..... not very likely.... dammit.....

Installation of a Cape Horn windvane as soon as I can afford it... its about 3000 beers.... the electrical system was about 550 beers.

I decided to dump my computer career and get a job in a boat yard to accomplish all this, hence being offline for well over a year (the pay cut was astonishing!). I have learned how to do almost everything, glass work, welding (not so good at that yet), painting, grinding, bedding of deck and hull fittings, and lots of other stuff... the cool thing about being a Yard Rat is I have access to everything I need: wood of all sorts, miles of glass, 50 gallon drums of epoxy, polyester resin (ICK!!!), acetone, tools and just about anything else I could ever want.
The yard I work at is just about the last working yard in the Florida Keys so we end up with all the derelict boats that have been abandoned or have sunk during hurricanes... lots of things to inspect to see how stuff was done on other boats. Very interesting.

Anyhow most of the stuff that needed to be done in the yard is done, just have to finish the bottom which should be ready next weekend give or take... ie: I GET TO GO SAILING!

Ok heres the question part:

#1 Should I open up the space in the keel between the lead? and if so can I use it for a holding tank or should I use it for an even lower bilge?

#2 I am thinking about compartmentalizing the cockpit lockers so that the area under the cockpit sole is a separate storage area for a small (3-4 hp outboard) and if so how would you recommend making access to it?

#3 What the heck should I do about a head? Theres no room for the dammed thing now that I have installed the piano... hehehehe!


As I said before I hope you two (and everyone else on the board) are doing well and having fun, John, I think I owe you a few beers as I found your book in an abandoned boat, and Didereaux, I owe you bigtime for the list you gave me all those ages ago, its been an excellent starting point.

Cheers!
Neil

[Dick Barthel]

Neil,

After reading your post I feel like I've gotten my work in for the day and I'm taking a nap. Sort of like when I watch a particularly vigorous session of This Old House.

Are you planning an offshore trip?

Dick

[neil]

Yep,
Im going to Belfast Ireland first and then back across possibly to Colombia and up Central America and Mexico to the Yucatan, and back to Key West....

I might hop about in Mexico for a bit, my Girlfriend Donna and I are thinking of moving there or maybe Panama at some point.

Everything but the Belfast part is a bit vague still but thats the idea at the moment...

Once I get to Belfast I will plan the next stage and weather to keep going East or to come back.... I want to see the South Pacific.... all this hinges on me being able to make and save a startling amount of money but we will see what happens.


Cheers,
Neil

[Didereaux]

Neil,
Just reading that almost made me start grabbing for the nitro!
I am kinda unclear on the head, but it may be that you can simply build in a locker roughly where it normally goes and stick in a small porta-potti to satisfy the authorites(don't know about overseas, you'll need to check that out closely). At sea it's the ol' bucket, nothing else works as well.

Yes, definitely get as much weight as you can , as low as you can. Remember though that the CD25 really does need that 100+lbs up forward(water tank or other heavy stuff) to hold the trim. I got that well exampled first hand.

Sealing off that bulkhead from cabin to cockpit is excellent. As for those partitions, I like them, but I would get all my gear acquired( or at least settled upon) then place them or models in their places. Then partition locations will pretty much show themselves.

Don't forget to fabricate an absolutely waterproof seal on those cockpit locker lids! BTW the under side of those things are really good to stow tools and such via velcro straps and flat bags.

As for the engins see if you can get a short shaft that will fit cross ways in the motor well, I seen one guy who had done that but I didn't have a chance to find out make/model/hp etc. It was in a Pearson Ariel, but I believe that motor well in them is very near the same size as the CD. Worth a looksee anyways, I think.

Also something to consider is to use Yves Gelinas' idea of mounting a swing bracket for the motor on the side of the boat, just aft of the back of the cockpit, but where it is still handy. He has used that set up on his Alberg fro nearly 25 years now. That would allow you to seal that motor well(permanently or with a plate and give you a lot of dry storage as well as extra buoyancy to lift with big following seas.

At any rate sounds like you're on top of the beast as it is, and not to in need of other than encouragement....we can send heaps of that your way!<grin>

Oh yeah, nearly forgot. Get a couple of SS steel straps(chainplate thickness and about an inch wide maybe a foot or so long. Round off one end and drill a 7/16-1/2" hole. Mount these parallel under the rub rail so the hole is a couple inches aft of the transom(think of these as horizontal chainplates). You can attach sea anchors(drogues), tow ropes etc to these. Use good thick backing and 3 or four 1/4inch bolts staggered. do not rely upon the cleats or winches for drogues or sea anchors.

g'Luk

[Judith]

Using the cockpit locker lids for storage--what a great idea! That's a good bit of space, all of it convenient.

Would you please elaborate on the Velcro-strap-plus-flat-bag arrangement you have in mind?

Thanks.
Judith

[Didereaux]

I used fairly long parallell strips of fuzzy side velcro on the underside of one locker lid, Then small bags with the sticky velcro sewn the same distance apart on the bags. I put emergency stuff and first aid items and a couple of small tools in the bags. Stuck them on and voila.

I first tried small velcro patches, but found they were not strong enough and would come loose from the bouncing. The bags were simple flap style affairs the we made up out of some scrap sunbrella.

All in all I was very pleased, the items were always handy and never got jumbled in with the regular mess in those lockers<grin>

Oh the velcro was 1" wide stuff, wider would be even more secure and hold more weight.
hope this explains it.

[Judith]

I don't mean to ignore all the other wonderful tips in this thread. But since it'll be a while before we're ready for serious cruising, this is the information that resonates for me--I certainly appreciate the expanded explanation.

My main question was whether you used adhesive Velcro (also how you used it). . .and whether it's strong enough to hold much of anything. Now I know.

BTW, I swear, I'd never thought so much about Velcro in my life until we bought Morveren. Boat ownership is definitely expanding both my experience with--and appreciation of--that stuff!

Cheers,
Judith

[Didereaux]

Sorry Judith, I should have mentioned this in the beginning (I hate oldtimerz it is so inconvenient): After a couple of failures using the sticky backed velcro (suns heat on locker would almost melt it off), I mixed up some thickened epoxy bought the un-sticky velcro strips and that seemed to solve the problem.

I think I would always glue the 'hooks' strip to the lid and the 'fuzzy' sewn to bags, because it seems the 'fuzzies' are the side that wears out long before the 'hooks, and it's relatively easy to sew on new strips...not so easy to strip off and re-glue!

There is a spray-on contact glue that is used to apply the soundproofing under the hood of cars and trucks that is very heat resistent. It is not cheap(about $15 per spray can) and it is sold in most auto stores, NAPA, AutoZone and such. I didn't try it for this job, should have probably, but didn't. I have used it a couple times in the past and it seemed to work pretty good...you might try it, if you aren't thrilled with epoxy.

I'm certain this isn't an ideal solution, but it worked okay for me, and I would do it again in the next boat.
g'Luk

[Judith]

After a couple of failures using the sticky backed velcro (suns heat on locker would almost melt it off)

You're right on target again: this is another of the questions I had.

Thank you!
Judith

[neil]

Oh yeah, nearly forgot. Get a couple of SS steel straps(chainplate thickness and about an inch wide maybe a foot or so long. Round off one end and drill a 7/16-1/2" hole. Mount these parallel under the rub rail so the hole is a couple inches aft of the transom(think of these as horizontal chainplates). You can attach sea anchors(drogues), tow ropes etc to these. Use good thick backing and 3 or four 1/4inch bolts staggered. do not rely upon the cleats or winches for drogues or sea anchors.

THAT is a great idea!
(sorry its taken me so long to get back here.... work is pure hell lately...)

Don't forget to fabricate an absolutely waterproof seal on those cockpit locker lids! BTW the under side of those things are really good to stow tools and such via velcro straps and flat bags.

As for the engins see if you can get a short shaft that will fit cross ways in the motor well, I seen one guy who had done that but I didn't have a chance to find out make/model/hp etc. It was in a Pearson Ariel, but I believe that motor well in them is very near the same size as the CD. Worth a looksee anyways, I think.

I am working on the seal but its proving interesting, and replacing the hinges with some very nice beefy ones (I forget what they are called). Using the underside is a great idea too, and Velcro seems like the thing to use, its replaceable and movable. The engine IS going to go over the side, its just for harbors mostly so the bracket will be removable as well, this is going to take welding skills I havent got yet but thats one I am going to foist off on my friend Jim, he can weld ANYTHING.

Whats the deal with the space between the lead sections in the keel? Should I open that up and make use of it? At the moment its sealed up and seems like it could be useful space it also seems like it could be like opening a big can of worms, why is it sealed? did they hide Jimmy Hoffa in there or something?

Anyhow the last couple of layers of barrier coat are going on this weekend and HOPEFULLY the bottom paint.

More soon, I have to get ready for work... aarrgg!

Cheers,
Neil

[Maine Sail]

Topside will be sprayed with PPG paint by a friend of mine Jim Allen who is VERY good, the topside is as smooth as it was when she was new. (at least after all that work I like to think so!)

Cheers!
Neil

Neil,

Please for your own sake DO NOT use a single part automotive paint on your boat. It will NOT hold up to fender abrasion, water etc.. I've seen to many boats "painted by experts" with automotive paint or single part paints only to fail or fade within a year.

They are also not designed to be submersed for any period of time as in a port or starboard tack or sitting low in the water due to a cruising load and will begin to peel in short order.

We had a brand new Downeast style lobster boat show up two years ago with a beautiful "Robins Egg Blue" hull. After four weeks on the mooring, the ball, in calm weather, had rubbed a hole in the automotive paint the builder decided to use to cut corners. At week five of ownership the boat was in the shed, at the builders cost, being totally stripped of the automotive paint and Awlgriped.

Trust me for a boat you need a two part paint like Imron, Awlcraft 2000, Awlgrip, Awlgrip 2 or Sterling. Please don't do all this work and then cheap out on the paint job it makes a huge difference. The only boats they usually paint with automotive paints are cigarette boats because it's easy to blend and feather and make racing stripes with..

[neil]

PPG is automotive paint?
I wasent aware of that....
Bear in mind I dont know much about topside paints....
But its not cheaper (and its a 3 part paint), its about twice what I would pay for Awlgrip.... however I do work in a boat yard so I guess we get something off on that sort of thing (my discounts can get friends rather angry ("YOU PAID WWHHAATT????")).
The reason I dident want to use Awlgrip is that I have delt with literally hundreds of of boats covered with bubbles, all of which had been painted with it.
I have noticed that the most common place that this happens is at corners like a fiberglass rubrail built into the hull, at the top where the hull curves into the rubrail there are often lots of these bubbles...

I do have access to large amounts of gellcoat and Im thinking of using that... on THE ENTIRE BOAT.... because I can and out of spite or something.... Gelcoat is good stuff, and its mailable and repairable, if I do pure white I should not have trouble trying to match colors in case I ram a supertanker and get a wee scratch....

I think I mentioned that I have quite a large number of experts around me none of who agree with each other, makes making an informed decision rather interesting.... and in the case of my barrier coat very excessive.
A real expert told me a great way to keep things from growing on the bottom of my boat: roofing tar, lasts a minimum of ten years and is guaranteed to enrage local law enforcement, environmentalists and a bunch of other jumpy people because of the iridescent sheen floating around your boat. Hmmmmm and its waterproof. Im not doing that.... just that its possible.

Reading the manual and sales pitch for everything results in this:
"Our Product Is Better Than All Others"

drives me nuts and makes me drink more than I should sometimes. Try reading ALL of the information about Interlux paints sometime, its a peach! (its also a clone of all the other information from other company's, I read them too and I find them just as peachy)

ok....
sorry, now I am ranting about my job. gonna shut up now and rethink the PPG issue.

One word of advice:
DO NOT pull your boat out of the water in the boatyard you work in.

Tomorrow is Saturday, and theres no printable way to express how happy I am about that.

oh yes there is, take a look at this:
http://www.odd.org/


Cheers,
Neil[/url]

[Troy Scott]

Neil,

So did you re-gelcoat THE ENTIRE BOAT?

[neil]

well....
The short answer to that is no.
I went sailing instead....
The long answer is I cant decide, paint or gelcoat. There are advantages to both but it looks like gelcoat might be winning, its very repairable, reasonably tough and looks GREAT. Paint on the other hand is finicky, bubbles, gets orange peel, and LOOKS GREAT if its done right.
I know how to do gelcoat, I dont know how to spray a boat.

I just dont know yet....

PPG is out however, I do know that at least!


Cheers,
Neil

[capt alex]

Been really busy the last two months trying to get down soon to put the boat in the water. Still cannot believe your hull got wet before mine......Hope your moms still enjoying the westerly Alex!