Steering

[MarkN]

This is a topic I have found little on in the archives. I am considering moving up from my 24' Allied Greenwich (precursor to the CD25) to something with a few more comforts (i.e. standing headroom, inboard, head, etc.) for cruising the Chesapeake. In looking (on line) at numerous CD's I've seen three types of steering - 1)tiller, 2)wheel pedestal and 3)what I'll call wheel rack & pinion or worm gear (stern steering). At what point (length) does a boat need to move from tiller to pedestal? I've seen some 30's with tiller but most move to wheel steering at that point. How well would a CD30 respond to tiller or is it just a personal issue for the helmsman? Are there increased maintenance issues with wheel steering? What are the advantages/disadvantages in the three types of steering?
I know it's a rather broad question but any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[xnk]

We discussed that matter in this thread, among others. http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=18249

My opinion remains that the LOA above which a wheel is a requirement is far larger than any Cape Dory. Personal tastes vary, but there's nothing inherently wrong with using a tiller on a 36 foot boat.

[rtbates]

Here's my experience.

1. rack and pinion has little or no feel. Pretty simple system. Helmsman position is limited to arms length from wheel

2. wheel has some feel. Pulleys and cables are located in hard to reach places and failures can and do occur . Hence the emergency tiller requirement. Helmsman position is limited to arms length of the wheel

3. tiller offers the most feel. Stone simple system. Helmsman position can be anywhere in the cockpit including under the dodger.

[chase]

Mark,

I have a standard Edson wheel on my 30. The other thread posted by xnk says much of the same, but here's my opinion fwiw:

The wheel works fine but takes up a lot of room in the cockpit. Given that the 28 is virtually the same boat, and they in large part are equipped with tillers, a 30 would sail perfectly fine with a tiller, in my opinion. Fred B has sailed his 28 all the way to NZ and has his own windvane setup to boot.

For me, the benefits of the wheel are:

1) Boat came with wheel autopilot, works fine.

2) Pedestal is nice for mounting devices, like chartplotter. It is also real nice for hanging on to, which I have done with white knuckles and sour stomach several times. Where do you tiller captains hang on? Windward coaming?

3) The shift/throttle levers are up high for easy access. I'm sure tiller captains have their own technique, but I imagine it to be challenging having to reach down for any corrections during docking.

The downside to wheel for me is cockpit space. It would be really nice to lift the tiller up at anchor and jib sheets would be more accessible on a beat. It's not enough of an issue for me to consider changing.

Cheers,

Chase

[Wayne Grenier]

The wheel vs tiler debate will rage on endlessly. Most boats built in the 60-70's came with a tiller only-ex. I looked at a 1965 Cal 40 that had the original tiller. A tiller is simple, proven and you are constantly aware of the tiller angle and pressure on the rudder. Most of the old school desingers believed in keeping boats as simple as possible, and if you look at boats that are in the water year after year and are now 40-50 years old-they have been kept simple-A tiller will keep you out of the rain as you can duck under the dodger and at the end of the day it can be tied up out of the cockpit. With wheel steering you need an emergency tiller anyway. So, if you see a boat you want and it has a wheel, so be it. I have brought non sailors out and they do ask the question "how big does a boat have to be before it comes with a wheel?" so the wheel does impress people. I would never remove the tiller from an old school sailboat and install a wheel, it makes no sense to me. The money and increased complexity are unwarranted imho-

[Neil Gordon]

Oh boy; the wheel vs. tiller debate!!!

>>At what point (length) does a boat need to move from tiller to pedestal?<<

The need comes when the forces become too much for tiller steering and/or in order to gain sufficient leverage, the tiller would be too big for it be sensible. 30 feet is well within tiller range.

>>How well would a CD30 respond to tiller or is it just a personal issue for the helmsman?<<

It's usually described as a personal issue that has less to do with response than to the advantages of a wheel that aren't steering related. That would be a convenient place for cup holders and the like. Also, the wheel turns the way you want the boat to go, so if you can drive, more or less, you can steer, more or less. There's little debate that the tiller is the most responsive way to steer.

>>Are there increased maintenance issues with wheel steering?<<

Have you ever heard of a boat with a tiller that had an emergency wheel for backup?

[Neil Gordon]

Where do you tiller captains hang on? Windward coaming?

Comfortably seated on the windward wide, under the dodger if I want out of the elements; feet braced on the leeward bench. No need to hang on and no need to shorten the length of the windward leg in order to stand straight behind a wheel. (You know that pirates cut their peg legs short so they could stand level on deck, right?)

[Ed Haley]

Here we go again!

No matter what other opinions are, you have to go with what you feel you want. Try tiller steering and try wheel steering. Decide what you like and go for it.

Sure there are advantages of both but your needs should be paramount. Do what you like based on how it feels.

[rtbates]

farmerchase wrote:
Where do you tiller captains hang on? Windward coaming?

I usually don't have to hang on to anything. Because I single hand most often I prefer the leeward side where the genoa winch is located. Being on the leeward side I am held in place by the V formed by the cockpit seat and the coaming. Usually I'm under the dodger against the cabin bulkhead steering with my tiller extender.
Being up there makes lighting my cigars much easier as I'm out of any wind/spray.

[bottomscraper]

Hmmm if it's so great why don't cars still have them?



Actually I think tillers do have an advantage for smaller boats but if you have the room a pedestal with compass, instruments and engine controls sure is nice.

[rtbates]

Hmmm if it's so great why don't cars still have them?



Actually I think tillers do have an advantage for smaller boats but if you have the room a pedestal with compass, instruments and engine controls sure is nice.

Good question! Several auto makers, BMW for one, are leaning toward using a joy stick for ALL controls. No steering wheel, no foot pedals. It's for the computer game generation of kids.

[Mark Yashinsky]

And BMW's have the IDrive system. Dont assume that if a BMW has it, it must be necessary or logical.

Tillers can take a bit of room in the cockpit, during maneuvers, like tacking. The crew tend to get a bit bent out of shape, when the tiller gets shoved up their nostril.

As for hiding under the dodger, that can be done with either tiller or wheel, given an autopilot remote.

Surprised the group from the turning prop thread have not shown up here.

[Clay Stalker]

I could never understand this thread....tiller vs. wheel. One is not better than the other, only different. Purely personal preference, with a few exceptions.

I once sailed a 35 foot William Hand designed wooden Ketch from Brooklin, Maine to Boston in stormy, late October weather. 25 knot winds and 8 foot seas made me wish she had a wheel....in these conditions, the tiller took two hands to maintain a course (autopilot...what are those ?).

I have owned 27 and 28 foot boats with tillers and wheels. My personal preference for a boat of this size is a tiller, but I did get to like the wheel on a Shannon 28....but it could have been a bit bigger. A tiller boat is more fun to sail, but the wheel makes a few things easier.

Nothing is more fun than blasting down the bay in a J-24 with a tiller, but I have had similar fun in a J-32 with a wheel....a big destroyer one....sitting on the rail.....very responsive and fun....did not miss the tiller one bit.

Now, I am back to a tiller on my Sea Sprite, and am happy about that....a bit more pure sailing. But, that's just me....

[Dean Abramson]

Our new boat is our first wheel boat.

To me, the wheel has it all over the tiller in the autopilot department, and the ability to just lock the wheel briefly.

But I liked the feel of the boat better with the tiller in our 25D. Plus, nowadays I wind up steering while standing more, and it gets to my back sometimes. A tiller is easier to reach from more positions, more comfortable positions, and really clears the cockpit nicely when it's time to just hang out.

Then again, I do like my gauges on the pedestal...

Like Clay says, it's apples and oranges. They are just different. To me, it would never be a deal-breaker either way, except maybe in the case of a few pretty small boats I've seen where the wheel and pedestal were just way too big for the available real estate.

Dean

[Neil Gordon]

... and the ability to just lock the wheel briefly.

Which with just a teeny bit of practice you can do with a tiller, using a (free) length of light line, and just one hand.