Steering in Reverse on a CD30

[Bill Gold]

I will take delivery of a CD30 next week, and am excited about cruising on Seraphim. She is in a slip on the Columbia River in Portland. The water is high and swift this time of year, due to water release upstream at Bonneville Dam.

Any tips or comments on steering in reverse? Getting in and out of the slip is very exciting.

Thanks.



golds1@prodigy.com

[Steve Alarcon]

Bill,

You will find with minimum experience that you cannot steer the 30 in reverse. More accurately, you cannot make it go where you want to. The best advice is use the tendancy to back to port to your advantage when possible, leave yourself enough room to move around, and go forward whenever possible. To get away from our slip, my "best mate" walks the bow out until she has reached the end of the slip. That way she can help the stern go where it should by pusing the bow one way or another.

Enjoy your Cape Dory, we all think they are great!

Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle



alarcon@internetmci.com

[Rod Morris]

Any tips or comments on steering in reverse? Getting in and out of the slip is very exciting.

My CD26 doesn't steer at all in reverse. It has a Yamaha 9.9 f-stroke in a well, so the prop is behind the rudder, and even though it has a 11-12" prop, it doesn't exhibit any noticeable prop walk. Last time I had it out, I just stopped at the end of the slip and pulled it in backwards by hand.

If anybody could tell me a better way, I'm all ears.

Rod



RVRMorris@compuserve.com

[Rod Morris]

Any tips or comments on steering in reverse? Getting in and out of the slip is very exciting.

My CD26 doesn't steer at all in reverse. It has a Yamaha 9.9 f-stroke in a well, so the prop is behind the rudder, and even though it has a 11-12" prop, it doesn't exhibit any noticeable prop walk. Last time I had it out, I just stopped at the end of the slip and pulled it in backwards by hand.

If anybody could tell me a better way, I'm all ears.

Rod



RVRMorris@compuserve.com

[Andy Blight]

It does not really seem to be possible to steer these babies in reverse, but it is possible under some circumstances to use short bursts of forward movement to produce rapid reorientation of the axis of the boat, so that when you switch back to reverse, the general movement starts out at least more in the direction you want to go. As the boat wanders off course, it will be necessary to switch to forward movement for a few feet to re-orient once again. By nudging it back and forth this way you can usually do a reasonable job, if the wind and current have not yet swept you in the neighbouring slip in the meantime... But don't forget to pause in neutral for a heartbeat or two between directions.

[Dave Stump, Hanalei]

Bill,
I think what is missing from this discussion is the fact that for a boat to stear in ANY direction requires that water be moving past the rudder! If the vessel is straight in the slip and you want to back out, first make sure that the helm is dead amidships. Then cast off all lines, shift to reverse, increase RPM to about 2,000 and back straight out for as long as you can(without backing into the slip behind you), once way is on in reverse, swing the helm to starboard and she should answer smartly. Of course, the way she answers depends on the wind and tide(Blondes & RedHeads); if the wind is 15 knots on the starboard quarter, you've got a problem. The prop walk to port plus the wind will in all likely hood cause the boat to continue straight in reverse or to walk to port. Oh, once sufficient way is on in reverse, drop the engine RPMs, bad form to slam the transmission into forward because you are going to fast backward!

I've used the above numerous times, sometimes it works and other times it's Blondes against the Redheads! Some days it just won't back for beans, but it's fun anyways. Have a good time with Seraphim.

Dave S.
Captain Commanding
Hanalei

[Neil Gordon]

Bill,

You'll have to experiment with your boat. On my CD28, I can back in a straight line, but not turn in reverse (at least not within the limits of the fairway). A burst fwd against the rudder will kick the stern and in lite wind I can get the bow around to the direction I want. Other than lite, though, the bow starts to swing and no effort of the motor/rudder will stop it.

Best solutions have been to walk the boat out of the slip, back against a spring line or otherwise haul the bow to windward. Then I can power off forward.

Good luck.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
CD28 #167



103355.34@compuserve.com

[Derek Hillen]

I have a CD 33 and backing out of my slip was always an adventure. Through lots of trial and error I have found a method that works well for me. When the engine is running and I have cast off the docklines, I keep the stern line in my hand and pull the boat back out of the slip a few feet. Once this motion is initiated, the inertia/momentum will help make sure she doesn't "walk to port" once you put her in reverse and continue out of your slip..

Also, as many know, short bursts of power fwd and reverse are much more effective than backing it up like she was a car.

My only other comment is that I have found this works 100% of the time when there are no witnesses. Strange....

Have fun.

Derek
"Galileo"

Bill,

You'll have to experiment with your boat. On my CD28, I can back in a straight line, but not turn in reverse (at least not within the limits of the fairway). A burst fwd against the rudder will kick the stern and in lite wind I can get the bow around to the direction I want. Other than lite, though, the bow starts to swing and no effort of the motor/rudder will stop it.

Best solutions have been to walk the boat out of the slip, back against a spring line or otherwise haul the bow to windward. Then I can power off forward.

Good luck.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
CD28 #167

[Zeida Cecilia]

First, find out if you have a right-turning or left-turning prop. On Bandolera II, I have a right-turning prop, (Universal Atomic 4/24 hp. Which means, the boat's natural tendency is to pull to starboard. With the boat in the slip (bow in) and the motor running in neutral, I turn the wheel (and the rudder) completely to starboard. As soon as I put her in slow reverse, she immediately starts turning her stern to the right, which is the way I need to turn to get out of my slip. yes, short bursts of power in reverse or forward help when you need it, but I find that I can steer Bandolera II in reverse. All I have is a boat-length and a half before hitting the boat on the other side of my slip, but since she turns nicely, only rarely when the wind is really blowing from the wrong side, i have a problem. It helped that I planned to get a slip where I knew the boat would need to back out to the right!!! Normally, the prevailing winds are from the east (left in my case) so everything works to help me ease out of the slip. Actually, I singlehand Bandolera II many times, in and out of my slip, so with a little planning, you should be able to do it. Good luck.
Zeida.



zcecil@ibm.net

[Jon Larson]

My CD30, PERI, tends to move her stern to starboard when reverse power is applied. The harder the burst of power, the more the tendency to turn. So, when really stuck in a situation requiring backing into a current, I shift into reverse and very slowly build the rpms until the boat just starts to move. I hang onto a spring line on the port side to provide corrective pulls as needed. Having the rudder over may help, but the dominent factor is the torque generated by the non verticle propellor that turns the boat and I believe you really want no more power than what is necessary to just move the boat.

I kept PERI on both the Connecticut River and the Hudson River when I lived back east, both pretty strong tidal bodies. When I had to go into a berth with a current sweeping down on the berth I would head up into the current, and either just idle in forward or go into neutral and let the current carry my back into the berth, you still have pretty good rudder control from the water running past the boat. The big plus was you were docked bow out, MUCH easier getting away from the dock that way regardless of the next tide.

The other benefit to 'backing in' was that with my original two blade prop, reverse was not very effective in stopping the boat when carried into a berth by a strong current. New Bobstays are expensive.

Aside from that, when in reverse, think good thoughts of Allah, for she is really the one in control of where you're going.

Good luck!

Jon Larson
Cape Dory 30 PERI
San Francisco Bay

I will take delivery of a CD30 next week, and am excited about cruising on Seraphim. She is in a slip on the Columbia River in Portland. The water is high and swift this time of year, due to water release upstream at Bonneville Dam.

Any tips or comments on steering in reverse? Getting in and out of the slip is very exciting.

Thanks.

jon9@ix.netcom.com

[Mark]

I will take delivery of a CD30 next week, and am excited about cruising on Seraphim. She is in a slip on the Columbia River in Portland. The water is high and swift this time of year, due to water release upstream at Bonneville Dam.

Any tips or comments on steering in reverse? Getting in and out of the slip is very exciting.

Thanks.

I used to own and liveaboard a 38' Phillip Rhodes designed ketch. Aquarius has a Perkins 50hp desiel.
I had the same difficulties backing in reverse until I replaced the 2-bladed prop with a 3-bladed sailmaster prop. When I purchased the prop I was told that the pitch would actually create less drag than the 2-blade I had and that "prop effect" or "paddlewheel effect" would also be reduced. Both proved true. She was much easier to handle (for me--remember, as pointed out by your some of your other responses, sometimes this paddlewheel effect can be used to your advantage). Also, the sailmaster 3-blade was more effecient in forward. My rpms dropped significantly at hull speed. I currently own my 2nd CD--GRACE--a Ty Sr. I purchased a condo on water when I sold Aquarius. Good Luck. Oh, it's true, you'll always moor better when there are no witnesses. Have fun, the 30 is a great boat!



tysr@webtv.net

[john churchill]

Any tips or comments on steering in reverse? Getting in and out of the slip is very exciting.

My CD26 doesn't steer at all in reverse. It has a Yamaha 9.9 f-stroke in a well, so the prop is behind the rudder, and even though it has a 11-12" prop, it doesn't exhibit any noticeable prop walk. Last time I had it out, I just stopped at the end of the slip and pulled it in backwards by hand.

If anybody could tell me a better way, I'm all ears.

Rod

my cd26 does great in reverse although it does have a tendency to back to starboard. forward steering at low speeds is poor. i simply use a spring line to get out of my slip as i have about 1.2 boatlengths until i hit the poor guy across the way. spring lines are a great answer for difficult dockside maneuvering. if you want to see the experts, talk to some single screw trawler owners. they would be happy to give some tips, and many are former rag baggers. that is where i learned.



jchurchill@erols.com

[Stephen]

Take a look at Chapman Piloting, Seamanship & Small Boat Handling, Chapter 9 "Seamanship Under Power."

I am under the impression that a sailboat with diesel auxiliary is about the most difficult small craft to maneuver. I find that pulling on a stern line, or having a crew member do the same, to get the boat under motion out of the slip helps a lot. The other general tip is to use short bursts of full throttle to start the boat moving; then ease off the throttle and the rudder will respond naturally.

Coming into the slip is fairly simple to single hand. First, make sure the fenders are in place (I leave extras attached to the dock on the side of the slip). Then, come in as slow as possible maintaining steerage and control (if the winds and currents are strong, then you will have to come in a bit fast). I try to drift in in neutral if possible; then I jump onto the dock with a stern line and throw it around a cleat. The boat will snug up against the side of the slip and you can jump on and make the bow line fast. If the weather is really tricky I might have to come in fast and apply full reverse throttle just before jumping off and fastening the stern line.

Practice makes perfect.

Good luck,
Stephen



sailing@star.net