Topside leaks ?

[John Peterson]

I have been unable to locate the source(s) of 2 topside leaks on a CD30, cutter. Water drips from the edge of the inner shell ceiling liner at the lip (which contains wiring, etc.) just above the shelf over the starboard side berth, below the forward port light in the main salon. A different leak, I believe, makes its presence known in the locker above the sink on the starboard side of the head compartment. That drip also comes from the edge of the lip in the inner shell ceiling liner below the port light. I have been over the roof of the cabin with a fine tooth comb and have found nothing which appears not to be sealed. Has anyone else had similar problems ?



petejg3@bellsouth.net

[David Miller]

I had a similar problem on my CD-25 with water leaking from the hull to joint and water was collecting under the starboard and port berths. I had originally been told that they thought the source of the problem was a sealant they used to seal the hull in the 70s called dolphinite which was cement based and had a tendency to crack and leak after 20 something years. We decided to go in and rebed the geoa track and a couple of the stantions and this has lessoned the problem considerably. Please let me know the results.. David Miller
CD-25 Coquina

I have been unable to locate the source(s) of 2 topside leaks on a CD30, cutter. Water drips from the edge of the inner shell ceiling liner at the lip (which contains wiring, etc.) just above the shelf over the starboard side berth, below the forward port light in the main salon. A different leak, I believe, makes its presence known in the locker above the sink on the starboard side of the head compartment. That drip also comes from the edge of the lip in the inner shell ceiling liner below the port light. I have been over the roof of the cabin with a fine tooth comb and have found nothing which appears not to be sealed. Has anyone else had similar problems ?

[Bill Armstrong]

I have been unable to locate the source(s) of 2 topside leaks on a CD30, cutter. Water drips from the edge of the inner shell ceiling liner at the lip (which contains wiring, etc.) just above the shelf over the starboard side berth, below the forward port light in the main salon. A different leak, I believe, makes its presence known in the locker above the sink on the starboard side of the head compartment. That drip also comes from the edge of the lip in the inner shell ceiling liner below the port light. I have been over the roof of the cabin with a fine tooth comb and have found nothing which appears not to be sealed. Has anyone else had similar problems ?

John, I posted a leaky message two weeks ago and received some good advice. One suggested rebedding the whole companionway hatch cover and sliding cover on my CD28. I took two days in a very secluded anchorage here in Maine (hardly not a ripple) and redid the whole thing. Two hours later it rained...not a drop...but it wasn't a hard rain. The project needed doing. Found really old hornet nests, plastic junk, and 1/8 crud all over. I think I found the entry way and am glad I did it anyhow. The dodger hold down on the cabin roof also was badly broken open. Refiberglassed that as well. Boy, those leaks are real pains. If not successful, I will try the stanchions next. Good luck, Bill in Maine



meislandbill@yahoo.com

[Jody Kaplan]

Hi John , I would also check the installation of the the wires for vhf-mast lights where they pass thru by the deck ,by the mast . I had a leak there that ran along the wires to above the head sink cabinet. Good Luck , Jody kaplan(Cygnus 30k)



jody_kaplan@hotmail.com

[Ben Thomas]

I had similar problems as well. I rechaulked bedding for the stantions, eliminated leaks. companionway hatch cover is a good thing to redo as well. Good luck, Ben



bt@benthomaslandscapers.com

[Larry DeMers]

We have chased down a few leaks over the past 13 years with our CD30, and found that the stanchion bases are the major culprit. At first I recaulked the stanchion base, thinking that this is how it should be done. But then I discovered that Spartan Marine created a fairly good quality stanchion base, that had been designed NOT to use caulking, but rather had an O ring in the base, and the bolts were meant to tighten the base up against the deck with the O ring sandwiched in between. So after the first stanchion, I have simply gone to the leaking stanchion and retorqued the bolts, with my wife Jan hanging onto the ratchet handle up topside while I fit the socket and operated another ratchet handle down below. They were some that had worked loose! So we spent an afternoon retightening the whole mess of bolts. That cured all of the leaking except for the current dribble in the head area, alongside the port in the head's starboard side. I learned that both those stanchions with caulking and those without it sealed up fine. There may come a time when the O rings need to be replaced (hardware store has them I bet)...this would be when there is no room left for tightening the base and getting a good seal. But my 1983 boat has still got a good seal under all but the coldest temps. Now with additional tightening, the coldest temps should not cause the materials to separate enough to allow water in.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I have been unable to locate the source(s) of 2 topside leaks on a CD30, cutter. Water drips from the edge of the inner shell ceiling liner at the lip (which contains wiring, etc.) just above the shelf over the starboard side berth, below the forward port light in the main salon. A different leak, I believe, makes its presence known in the locker above the sink on the starboard side of the head compartment. That drip also comes from the edge of the lip in the inner shell ceiling liner below the port light. I have been over the roof of the cabin with a fine tooth comb and have found nothing which appears not to be sealed. Has anyone else had similar problems ?

demers@sgi.com

[Boyd]

Hi John...

I recently went on a leak hunt as a result of 28 days of straight rain. I had leaks in locations similar to where you describe. There was a puddle on the shelf above the quarter berth and some water in the bilge. Surprising how much water can get in from such a small leak. Boat smelled musty all the time.

I found that the toe rail screws went all the way thru the deck/hull joint and were leaking. Also the bolts holding the genoa track (which sits on top of the toe rail) were leaking as well. I spent some time looking with a flash light during the rain after I had to remove the woodwork tray you described. I also found leaks from the screws used to mount the rub rail. Some of these went lower than the hull/deck joint and water was getting behind the teak rub rail and traveling in next to the screw. Several screws were wet on the ends. I had streaks on the inside of the hull.

I have found this type of leak in several boats not just CD's The fix is labor intensive but not expensive if you do it. If you find this is the source of the leaks and would like details on the fix just e-mail me or I can post it.

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

I have been unable to locate the source(s) of 2 topside leaks on a CD30, cutter. Water drips from the edge of the inner shell ceiling liner at the lip (which contains wiring, etc.) just above the shelf over the starboard side berth, below the forward port light in the main salon. A different leak, I believe, makes its presence known in the locker above the sink on the starboard side of the head compartment. That drip also comes from the edge of the lip in the inner shell ceiling liner below the port light. I have been over the roof of the cabin with a fine tooth comb and have found nothing which appears not to be sealed. Has anyone else had similar problems ?

Boyd@wbta.cc

[Fred P.]

We have chased down a few leaks over the past 13 years with our CD30, and found that the stanchion bases are the major culprit. At first I recaulked the stanchion base, thinking that this is how it should be done. But then I discovered that Spartan Marine created a fairly good quality stanchion base, that had been designed NOT to use caulking, but rather had an O ring in the base, and the bolts were meant to tighten the base up against the deck with the O ring sandwiched in between. So after the first stanchion, I have simply gone to the leaking stanchion and retorqued the bolts, with my wife Jan hanging onto the ratchet handle up topside while I fit the socket and operated another ratchet handle down below. They were some that had worked loose! So we spent an afternoon retightening the whole mess of bolts. That cured all of the leaking except for the current dribble in the head area, alongside the port in the head's starboard side. I learned that both those stanchions with caulking and those without it sealed up fine. There may come a time when the O rings need to be replaced (hardware store has them I bet)...this would be when there is no room left for tightening the base and getting a good seal. But my 1983 boat has still got a good seal under all but the coldest temps. Now with additional tightening, the coldest temps should not cause the materials to separate enough to allow water in.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I've been suspecting that my stanchion bases have wept a little- but with sailing days fast approaching an end, I've relegated rebedding to that big list of tasks entitled "eventually". But if I understand you correctly, just tightening the fasteners should help? I have always thought that one *shouldn't* turn the fasteners, because w/ a caulked fitting, that breaks the seal between the bolt and the bedding. I just assumed that was the case on our stanchions too... So I oughtta just break out the socket set and be done with it you say?
The stuff you learn on this board! Thanks!

Regards, Fred P.

[will parker]

Larry et al:

I discovered leaks from stantions and from bolts holding genoa track to toerail. When I removed the leaky bolts (with great effort and many words) I discovered in each case the offending bolt had a slight bend in it. In other words, whoever had installed them (either Cape Dory or the prior owner) had over-torqued them to the point of bending. I replaced them with new bolts, tried to avoid over-torquing, re-bedded them, and have had no further leaks FROM THOSE BOLTS. There are a few others which I fear may require removing the toe rail, which I really don't want to do.
Will
"Jambalaya"

We have chased down a few leaks over the past 13 years with our CD30, and found that the stanchion bases are the major culprit. At first I recaulked the stanchion base, thinking that this is how it should be done. But then I discovered that Spartan Marine created a fairly good quality stanchion base, that had been designed NOT to use caulking, but rather had an O ring in the base, and the bolts were meant to tighten the base up against the deck with the O ring sandwiched in between. So after the first stanchion, I have simply gone to the leaking stanchion and retorqued the bolts, with my wife Jan hanging onto the ratchet handle up topside while I fit the socket and operated another ratchet handle down below. They were some that had worked loose! So we spent an afternoon retightening the whole mess of bolts. That cured all of the leaking except for the current dribble in the head area, alongside the port in the head's starboard side. I learned that both those stanchions with caulking and those without it sealed up fine. There may come a time when the O rings need to be replaced (hardware store has them I bet)...this would be when there is no room left for tightening the base and getting a good seal. But my 1983 boat has still got a good seal under all but the coldest temps. Now with additional tightening, the coldest temps should not cause the materials to separate enough to allow water in.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I have been unable to locate the source(s) of 2 topside leaks on a CD30, cutter. Water drips from the edge of the inner shell ceiling liner at the lip (which contains wiring, etc.) just above the shelf over the starboard side berth, below the forward port light in the main salon. A different leak, I believe, makes its presence known in the locker above the sink on the starboard side of the head compartment. That drip also comes from the edge of the lip in the inner shell ceiling liner below the port light. I have been over the roof of the cabin with a fine tooth comb and have found nothing which appears not to be sealed. Has anyone else had similar problems ?

whildenp@earthlink.net

[Larry DeMers]

Will,

Were you able to verify what I found with the stanchion bases..that they have an O ring and that it works pretty well as the gasket in place of caulking? I think the bolts themselves should also have an o ring relief cut into them, to seal that pathway off, but they don't so they will need a dollop of sealant around the bolt head in any case.
The bolts were bent? Could you describe the bend please? Was this twisted..as in over-torquing, or were they bent side to side, as in a shearing situation? I do not see how overtorquing a bolt can bend it, unless the bolt runs out of threads, or the bolt jambs it's threads and the installer is a gorilla with no mechanical ability at all (I mean, what are they teaching gorillas these days anyway!? -nothing against gorillas if you are one...;^)).
Well, whatever the cause, you made some progress towards a dryer and more comfortable boat Will, and that sir is good!

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

Larry et al:

I discovered leaks from stantions and from bolts holding genoa track to toerail. When I removed the leaky bolts (with great effort and many words) I discovered in each case the offending bolt had a slight bend in it. In other words, whoever had installed them (either Cape Dory or the prior owner) had over-torqued them to the point of bending. I replaced them with new bolts, tried to avoid over-torquing, re-bedded them, and have had no further leaks FROM THOSE BOLTS. There are a few others which I fear may require removing the toe rail, which I really don't want to do.
Will
"Jambalaya"

We have chased down a few leaks over the past 13 years with our CD30, and found that the stanchion bases are the major culprit. At first I recaulked the stanchion base, thinking that this is how it should be done. But then I discovered that Spartan Marine created a fairly good quality stanchion base, that had been designed NOT to use caulking, but rather had an O ring in the base, and the bolts were meant to tighten the base up against the deck with the O ring sandwiched in between. So after the first stanchion, I have simply gone to the leaking stanchion and retorqued the bolts, with my wife Jan hanging onto the ratchet handle up topside while I fit the socket and operated another ratchet handle down below. They were some that had worked loose! So we spent an afternoon retightening the whole mess of bolts. That cured all of the leaking except for the current dribble in the head area, alongside the port in the head's starboard side. I learned that both those stanchions with caulking and those without it sealed up fine. There may come a time when the O rings need to be replaced (hardware store has them I bet)...this would be when there is no room left for tightening the base and getting a good seal. But my 1983 boat has still got a good seal under all but the coldest temps. Now with additional tightening, the coldest temps should not cause the materials to separate enough to allow water in.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I have been unable to locate the source(s) of 2 topside leaks on a CD30, cutter. Water drips from the edge of the inner shell ceiling liner at the lip (which contains wiring, etc.) just above the shelf over the starboard side berth, below the forward port light in the main salon. A different leak, I believe, makes its presence known in the locker above the sink on the starboard side of the head compartment. That drip also comes from the edge of the lip in the inner shell ceiling liner below the port light. I have been over the roof of the cabin with a fine tooth comb and have found nothing which appears not to be sealed. Has anyone else had similar problems ?

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

Yup,

This is what I found out when I did mine. Theoretically with an O ring, you tighten until there is a certain amount of compression all over the ring. Since you cannot see the darn thing while tightening, you have to guesstimate. I would go ahead and tighten the bolts an extra 1/2 turn and see if that stops the leak.
Of course if these guys at Spartan were really clever, they would have recessed the O ring far enough into the base such that you tighten down until the base was flat aginst the deck...period. The O ring gets squished it's required amount, and the base is square with the deck and solidly mounted to it. I suspect that this is the preferred way to seal it up and make the whole stanchion rigid.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
CD30 Lake Superior

We have chased down a few leaks over the past 13 years with our CD30, and found that the stanchion bases are the major culprit. At first I recaulked the stanchion base, thinking that this is how it should be done. But then I discovered that Spartan Marine created a fairly good quality stanchion base, that had been designed NOT to use caulking, but rather had an O ring in the base, and the bolts were meant to tighten the base up against the deck with the O ring sandwiched in between. So after the first stanchion, I have simply gone to the leaking stanchion and retorqued the bolts, with my wife Jan hanging onto the ratchet handle up topside while I fit the socket and operated another ratchet handle down below. They were some that had worked loose! So we spent an afternoon retightening the whole mess of bolts. That cured all of the leaking except for the current dribble in the head area, alongside the port in the head's starboard side. I learned that both those stanchions with caulking and those without it sealed up fine. There may come a time when the O rings need to be replaced (hardware store has them I bet)...this would be when there is no room left for tightening the base and getting a good seal. But my 1983 boat has still got a good seal under all but the coldest temps. Now with additional tightening, the coldest temps should not cause the materials to separate enough to allow water in.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I've been suspecting that my stanchion bases have wept a little- but with sailing days fast approaching an end, I've relegated rebedding to that big list of tasks entitled "eventually". But if I understand you correctly, just tightening the fasteners should help? I have always thought that one *shouldn't* turn the fasteners, because w/ a caulked fitting, that breaks the seal between the bolt and the bedding. I just assumed that was the case on our stanchions too... So I oughtta just break out the socket set and be done with it you say?
The stuff you learn on this board! Thanks!

Regards, Fred P.

demers@sgi.com

[Boyd]

Hi Will...

One way you might fix your leaks without removeing the toe rail is to locate which screws are leaking by watching from underneith. Remove the bung and the screw. Dry out the hole with a heat gun or hair dryer...carefully. Compressed air might help also. Take the nozzel of a caulking tube of 101 or tan lifecaulk and stick it into the hole from above. Fill the screw hole with as much caulk as possible without making a huge mess. Put a little caulk on the screw just under the head and put it back in. Reset a bung by putting a little more caulk on the top of the screw and tap in the bung. I look for a little caulk to ooze out around the edges of the bung. Check inside for excess caulk and smear some of it around the end of the screw. Wait for the next day and slice off the bung and excess caulk.

I have done this on my rub rail with success so far. Beats taking the whole thing off.

I did take off a section of the toe rail and rebed..almost every screw was leaking on the rear stbd section.. I had to take that off... found a really weird condition with it. Someone had put saw cuts along its entire length .. practically guaranteeing a leak situation.

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla

Larry et al:

I discovered leaks from stantions and from bolts holding genoa track to toerail. When I removed the leaky bolts (with great effort and many words) I discovered in each case the offending bolt had a slight bend in it. In other words, whoever had installed them (either Cape Dory or the prior owner) had over-torqued them to the point of bending. I replaced them with new bolts, tried to avoid over-torquing, re-bedded them, and have had no further leaks FROM THOSE BOLTS. There are a few others which I fear may require removing the toe rail, which I really don't want to do.
Will
"Jambalaya"

We have chased down a few leaks over the past 13 years with our CD30, and found that the stanchion bases are the major culprit. At first I recaulked the stanchion base, thinking that this is how it should be done. But then I discovered that Spartan Marine created a fairly good quality stanchion base, that had been designed NOT to use caulking, but rather had an O ring in the base, and the bolts were meant to tighten the base up against the deck with the O ring sandwiched in between. So after the first stanchion, I have simply gone to the leaking stanchion and retorqued the bolts, with my wife Jan hanging onto the ratchet handle up topside while I fit the socket and operated another ratchet handle down below. They were some that had worked loose! So we spent an afternoon retightening the whole mess of bolts. That cured all of the leaking except for the current dribble in the head area, alongside the port in the head's starboard side. I learned that both those stanchions with caulking and those without it sealed up fine. There may come a time when the O rings need to be replaced (hardware store has them I bet)...this would be when there is no room left for tightening the base and getting a good seal. But my 1983 boat has still got a good seal under all but the coldest temps. Now with additional tightening, the coldest temps should not cause the materials to separate enough to allow water in.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I have been unable to locate the source(s) of 2 topside leaks on a CD30, cutter. Water drips from the edge of the inner shell ceiling liner at the lip (which contains wiring, etc.) just above the shelf over the starboard side berth, below the forward port light in the main salon. A different leak, I believe, makes its presence known in the locker above the sink on the starboard side of the head compartment. That drip also comes from the edge of the lip in the inner shell ceiling liner below the port light. I have been over the roof of the cabin with a fine tooth comb and have found nothing which appears not to be sealed. Has anyone else had similar problems ?

Boyd@wbta.cc

[will parker]

Larry,

Were you able to verify what I found with the stanchion bases..that they have an O ring and that it works pretty well as the gasket in place of caulking?

ODDLY ENOUGH, I DON'T REMEMBER NOTICING THE PRESENCE OR ABSENCE OF O RINGS. I DO KNOW THAT I DID NOT REPLACE ANY O RINGS.

The bolts were bent? Could you describe the bend please? Was this twisted..as in over-torquing, or were they bent side to side, as in a shearing situation?

I MAY HAVE USED THE TERM 'OVER-TORQUING' INARTFULLY, I.E. IMPLYING THAT I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. BEING A LAWYER, I KNOW ONLY WHAT MY WITTNESSES TELL ME. THE BOLTS WERE BENT IN THE MIDDLE. I JUST ASSUMED THAT THE BEND WAS DUE TO OVERTIGHTENING [OVER-TORQUING??].

ANYWAY, I DID NOT TIGHTEN THEM AS MUCH AS I COULD HAVE. APPARENTLY IT WAS ENOUGH.

Will
"Jambalaya"

Larry et al:

I discovered leaks from stantions and from bolts holding genoa track to toerail. When I removed the leaky bolts (with great effort and many words) I discovered in each case the offending bolt had a slight bend in it. In other words, whoever had installed them (either Cape Dory or the prior owner) had over-torqued them to the point of bending. I replaced them with new bolts, tried to avoid over-torquing, re-bedded them, and have had no further leaks FROM THOSE BOLTS. There are a few others which I fear may require removing the toe rail, which I really don't want to do.
Will
"Jambalaya"

whildenp@earthlink.net

[will parker]

Boyd,
These leaks are a mystery. The evidence of the leaks is the aft locker in my quarter-berth (Cape Dory 30B)fills with water when under sail with sufficient heel to put the rail under water. There is no leak when it rains. Moreover, the forward quarter-berth locker (separated from the aft one by a plywood panel) stays dry. I am assuming the leak must be from the toe-rail on the starboard quarter because i can't imagine any other cause. Watching for the leak is a practical impossibility because there is simply not sufficient access.
But to the extent I can see, I have never found evidence of water coming in from the rail. The stuff in my starboard cockpit locker stays relatively dry. Gremlins????
Will
"Jambalaya"
CD 30B

Hi Will...

One way you might fix your leaks without removeing the toe rail is to locate which screws are leaking by watching from underneith. Remove the bung and the screw. Dry out the hole with a heat gun or hair dryer...carefully. Compressed air might help also. Take the nozzel of a caulking tube of 101 or tan lifecaulk and stick it into the hole from above. Fill the screw hole with as much caulk as possible without making a huge mess. Put a little caulk on the screw just under the head and put it back in. Reset a bung by putting a little more caulk on the top of the screw and tap in the bung. I look for a little caulk to ooze out around the edges of the bung. Check inside for excess caulk and smear some of it around the end of the screw. Wait for the next day and slice off the bung and excess caulk.

I have done this on my rub rail with success so far. Beats taking the whole thing off.

I did take off a section of the toe rail and rebed..almost every screw was leaking on the rear stbd section.. I had to take that off... found a really weird condition with it. Someone had put saw cuts along its entire length .. practically guaranteeing a leak situation.

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla

Larry et al:

I discovered leaks from stantions and from bolts holding genoa track to toerail. When I removed the leaky bolts (with great effort and many words) I discovered in each case the offending bolt had a slight bend in it. In other words, whoever had installed them (either Cape Dory or the prior owner) had over-torqued them to the point of bending. I replaced them with new bolts, tried to avoid over-torquing, re-bedded them, and have had no further leaks FROM THOSE BOLTS. There are a few others which I fear may require removing the toe rail, which I really don't want to do.
Will
"Jambalaya"

whildenp@earthlink.net

[Chris Schnell]

John,
We've been on the same leak chase and have eliminated all but the one on the inner shell that drips down to the shelf on the starboard side. Thinking closely on how this water could get on the inner shell to drip down to the shelf there are only a few options. 1)The Hatch Cover 2)The Handrails & 3)The Ports. When I totally removed and rebedded the Hatch cover several other leaks over the ice-box were eliminated. When I rebedded the Handrails, the amount of leakage was reduced on the shelf. When I tightened the port, the leak was eliminated. Now it's returned ever so slightly after days of continuous rain here in Southport. I'm really thinking it's time to loosen or remove that port, clean the mating surfaces, rebed, and reinstall. Right now I have a little tupperwear bowl catching the water to preserve the wood. The only other option I have is to get down below when there's a really good rain w/flashlight and mirror and see if I can get a better look at the drip path. Either that or fiberoptics. Anyway, for now it's tupperwear until I have the time to rebed the port. I'll post the results when it's complete. Good Luck w/Yours.

Full Sails & Calm Seas,

Chris Schnell & Dale Hampton
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC



CDSwabbie@msn.com