Sailing in heavy winds

[Peter]

Took my CD26 out in heavy (for me) winds this week for the first time -- on Wednesday night the winds were probably around 15 kts, while on Thursday they were higher -- my guess is about 20 kts or perhaps even a bit higher than that. This is the first time I've had the boat out in any sort of wind like those. Yes, I know, most of you sail in those sorts of breezes all the time, but I've only had Waltzing Matilda since the end of the year last year, and this is the first time for me. What surprised me was the way the boat handled on Wednesday night when we sailed without a headsail. We simply could not tack! The boat would move into the wind, end up in irons, and we'd have to bring her back around through a jibe. Is this normal? Does it mean that there are no conditions when I should sail without a headsail of some sort? The next day (Thursday) in higher winds, we flew the working jib, and the boat tacked without a problem. I guess my question is simply are there any conditions when one should sail a CD26 either without a headsail or, conversely, with only a headsail? I am thinking more and more of getting a storm jib so that I have better control of the boat in heavier winds. In my little 18 foot Hunter I could often sail without a headsail, and would do so if the winds were too high. But, it sure didn't work Wednesday evening.
Thanks for any enlightening thoughts on this. As usual, they are appreciated.
Fair winds,
Peter K., S/V Waltzing Matilda
CD26, Hull #42



waltzingmatilda@sailnet.net

[Will W.]

I have sucsessfully tacked my CD25 in heavy winds with only the main sail the 26 may be different. You have to set it up. I let out the main to get on a broad reach and pick up speed. You want to then time things with the waves. You want to go through the no sail zone on the back of a wave. Time the rollers and then start to haul in the main sheet. The idea is to tack from the reach all the way through the wind, don't pause when you get to close hauled, and go through the no sail zone while you are decending the back of a wave. If you try to go through the no sail zone while climbing a wave it will probably not work.
.
The real answer to your problem is roller furling. I installed one this year and it was worth every penny. I laugh every time I furl my head sail now, when I look back on last years foredeck acrobatics.
Hope this helps.

Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25
Sailing from Chesapeake Beach, MD

Took my CD26 out in heavy (for me) winds this week for the first time -- on Wednesday night the winds were probably around 15 kts, while on Thursday they were higher -- my guess is about 20 kts or perhaps even a bit higher than that. This is the first time I've had the boat out in any sort of wind like those. Yes, I know, most of you sail in those sorts of breezes all the time, but I've only had Waltzing Matilda since the end of the year last year, and this is the first time for me. What surprised me was the way the boat handled on Wednesday night when we sailed without a headsail. We simply could not tack! The boat would move into the wind, end up in irons, and we'd have to bring her back around through a jibe. Is this normal? Does it mean that there are no conditions when I should sail without a headsail of some sort? The next day (Thursday) in higher winds, we flew the working jib, and the boat tacked without a problem. I guess my question is simply are there any conditions when one should sail a CD26 either without a headsail or, conversely, with only a headsail? I am thinking more and more of getting a storm jib so that I have better control of the boat in heavier winds. In my little 18 foot Hunter I could often sail without a headsail, and would do so if the winds were too high. But, it sure didn't work Wednesday evening.
Thanks for any enlightening thoughts on this. As usual, they are appreciated.
Fair winds,
Peter K., S/V Waltzing Matilda
CD26, Hull #42

willwheatley@starpower.net

[Al Levesque]

Took my CD26 out in heavy (for me) winds this week for the first time -- on Wednesday night the winds were probably around 15 kts, ...snip... What surprised me was the way the boat handled on Wednesday night when we sailed without a headsail. We simply could not tack!

I agree with the previous post. It is sometimes necessary to build up speed and time the tack. I have often tacked the Typhoon, the CD25, and now our CD33 without headsail in winds that buried the rail. I do recall centerboard and daggerboard boats that would not build up enough momentum to take them through in a squall, but usually the squall would pass soon enough. Would not dare jibe them then.



albertlevesque@cove.com

[Clay Stalker]

Took my CD26 out in heavy (for me) winds this week for the first time -- on Wednesday night the winds were probably around 15 kts, while on Thursday they were higher -- my guess is about 20 kts or perhaps even a bit higher than that. This is the first time I've had the boat out in any sort of wind like those. Yes, I know, most of you sail in those sorts of breezes all the time, but I've only had Waltzing Matilda since the end of the year last year, and this is the first time for me. What surprised me was the way the boat handled on Wednesday night when we sailed without a headsail. We simply could not tack! The boat would move into the wind, end up in irons, and we'd have to bring her back around through a jibe. Is this normal? Does it mean that there are no conditions when I should sail without a headsail of some sort? The next day (Thursday) in higher winds, we flew the working jib, and the boat tacked without a problem. I guess my question is simply are there any conditions when one should sail a CD26 either without a headsail or, conversely, with only a headsail? I am thinking more and more of getting a storm jib so that I have better control of the boat in heavier winds. In my little 18 foot Hunter I could often sail without a headsail, and would do so if the winds were too high. But, it sure didn't work Wednesday evening.
Thanks for any enlightening thoughts on this. As usual, they are appreciated.
Fair winds,
Peter K., S/V Waltzing Matilda
CD26, Hull #42

Peter:

I have not found Cape Dorys to sail well with main only...however, my 27 sails very well with just the headsail. Consequently, with heavy winds I always reef the main and then adjust the genny accordingly. As far as tacking, you really need to get up some speed and shove it over fairly hard, going all the way though the wind and not slowing down when you are head to wind...sorta what Will said. CDs are relatively slow tacking boat (all full keel boats are) and really need to be brought around hard. Hope this helps.

Clay Stalker
CD27 Salsa
Bristol, R.I.



cstalker@cheshire.net

[Ken Coit]

Peter,

I'm a bit confused by some of the answers you are getting. Seems to me that a full keel boat like a Cape Dory just isn't going to respond very well to slamming the helm over hard like one might with a Laser or maybe a Lightning with fin-like dagger and center boards. Clearly you need to take advantage of the momentum to get the boat through the eye of the wind, but you don't want to add a brake in the form of a hard alee rudder which will stall out and not provide much help in turning the boat.

I suggest a more gentle but steady approach to the turn using maybe 10 degrees of rudder and turning on the top of a wave if they are significant.

Keep on sailing,

Ken Coit
CD/14 #538
CD/36 #84 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC

Took my CD26 out in heavy (for me) winds this week for the first time -- on Wednesday night the winds were probably around 15 kts, while on Thursday they were higher -- my guess is about 20 kts or perhaps even a bit higher than that. This is the first time I've had the boat out in any sort of wind like those. Yes, I know, most of you sail in those sorts of breezes all the time, but I've only had Waltzing Matilda since the end of the year last year, and this is the first time for me. What surprised me was the way the boat handled on Wednesday night when we sailed without a headsail. We simply could not tack! The boat would move into the wind, end up in irons, and we'd have to bring her back around through a jibe. Is this normal? Does it mean that there are no conditions when I should sail without a headsail of some sort? The next day (Thursday) in higher winds, we flew the working jib, and the boat tacked without a problem. I guess my question is simply are there any conditions when one should sail a CD26 either without a headsail or, conversely, with only a headsail? I am thinking more and more of getting a storm jib so that I have better control of the boat in heavier winds. In my little 18 foot Hunter I could often sail without a headsail, and would do so if the winds were too high. But, it sure didn't work Wednesday evening.
Thanks for any enlightening thoughts on this. As usual, they are appreciated.
Fair winds,
Peter K., S/V Waltzing Matilda
CD26, Hull #42

parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com

[Gary L.]

Peter,

When I had my CD 26, I had never tried to sail without the working jib, and I was moored in Mattapoisett. However, I did sail with only the working jib or the 150 genny, but never experienced what you described. As the other skippers stated about the weight factor and full keel boats, it takes more momentum to move these boats. You will find, as you gain more experience with your CD26, that she is a tough boat, and when other, larger boats are seeking refuge, you will still be sailing comfortably. Keep at it, don't be afraid to experiment. The CD26 is a safe and forgiving boat.

Gary Lapine
Red Witch III
CD30C, #339
Somerset, MA



dory@attbi.com

[Richard Gelfand]

Peter, my experience is that the boat has to be ballanced to sail well in any air. The force that the main puts on the boat is ballanced by the force of the headsail. Tie off the tiller amd play with trimming the two sails and trying to sail without using the rudder to steer and you will get a better understanding of how it all works. It is also my experence that my CD27 tacks best by letting the boat sail itself around. I let go of the helm and the boats natural tendency to round up will take her through the wind and onto the opposite tack.This also allow me to focus on handling the sheets. If you to put the helm over, do it moderately slowly and not to the hard extreme point that it will go to, otherwise the rudder will be acting as a break and will slow the boat and tend to prevent the very thing that you are trying to do.

I also reef the main in winds over 15 and will then reduce the head sail as needed. The boat will handle so much better "on its feet", and you and crew will be much more comfortable. You may even sail faster to weather as you are sailing forward instead of sideways as you are when you heeled over too far.

My .02 worth.

Richard Gelfand
s/v JOHNNY G
CD 27 #66
MDR, CA

[Warren Kaplan]

Peter,
In my experience, boat speed before tacking (read momentum) makes all the difference in the world. If I'm sailing close hauled (with or without the headsail) to the point of actually pinching, boat speed and therefore momentum is often reduced. Alot depends on wind speed, sea conditions and current as to how much boat speed and momentum you'll need to make a smooth tack. If I feel that my CD27 isn't "nipping along smartly" I'll fall off the wind a little to pick up boat speed. Others have said otherwise but when I feel she is moving along at good clip, I put the helm hard over sharply and the momentum quickly carries the bow thru the eye of the wind with no trouble. If you are tacking with the headsail up, and you feel your momentum isn't all that great, hold that headsail in place for a few extra seconds on the old tack (like heaving too) and the wind will backwind that sail and help to push the bow thru the eye of the wind. Once the bow comes around, you can release the now windward sheet of the headsail and complete your tack. But get your boat speed up by falling off a little. That should solve most of your problems, with or without a headsail flying.

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY



Setsail728@aol.com

[Joel]

Backwinding the jib will pull you through every time. It's an old Hobie Cat trick, but useful on any boat that can't build momentum either because it's too light (not a problem with Cape Dories) or fighting a current.

Joel
Pokey II
'73 Ty #549 (Still for sale)
Bayside, NY

[Dana]

I would suggest two options....for maintaining driving power to windward and therefore ease of tacking through seas and wind...for 20 knots....

1. one reef point in main...maintain full jib

I find that real driving power with pointing on my CD26 comes from the foresail. With the higher pointing it is very easy to tack because the tack angle is smaller and boat speed faster. It really likes a balance between the two sails (reduction in both) but you may also like to take a look at foresail only as an option. The reduction in the foresail is made easier with a furler setup.

[skipper]

Peter:

I have not found Cape Dorys to sail well with main only...however, my 27 sails very well with just the headsail. Consequently, with heavy winds I always reef the main and then adjust the genny accordingly. As far as tacking, you really need to get up some speed and shove it over fairly hard, going all the way though the wind and not slowing down when you are head to wind...sorta what Will said. CDs are relatively slow tacking boat (all full keel boats are) and really need to be brought around hard. Hope this helps.

Clay Stalker
CD27 Salsa
Bristol, R.I.

You are right on about the slow tacking!! I once sailed my brother's 27 Catalina and was surprised at how it tacked over fast and hard (bam!)! It literally slammed down when I tacked over! I'm used to the slow and steady tacks of my CD 27. The performance of the fin keeled Catalina surprised me. I can see why the long keels are safer in rough weather.

skipper
S/V CD 27 #277
Wickford, RI



Spyronica@aol.com