My Outboard Woes Continue -- shaft length? Honda Info?

[Eric]

I've posted on here several times since last August about my 9.9 HP Mariner outboard and how it just can't seem to get running with any kind of consistency. Last weekend it wouldn't start on Sat, but did on Sun. The week before it died in the middle of the harbor (sail-covers on). I spent $500 having the carb rebuilt over the winter. THe heafty sum was worth it to me to not have any more fears of it dying.

Alas. Today I tried to start it and it did what it has often done lately... sputtered for about 20 seconds with the choke open then died when the choke was closed. It starts up again with the choke open but soon dies, whether it's open or closed. No amout of trying to feather the choke seems to make a difference. I think it's flooding, but the weird thing is it seems to want all that gas then it suddenly can't take it anymore and refuses to even hiccup.

I recently replaced both tanks and the fuel line, to no avail. The guy who fixed the engine is giving me the old "it runs for me" stuff (I brought it back into his shop -- which is no small task when the boat is on a mooring). He refuses to help anymore. SHort of depositing a winch handle in his gullett, does anyone know what I can do now?

I've begun looking at replacements. I think the Honda 8 HP 4-stroke is what I want, but they come in three lengths -- 15 in (too short), 20 in and 25 in. Which is best for a CD 25? Also, what should I expect to get for a trade-in on my '96 Mariner? THe local dealer is offering $2,300 new. Sound right?

Is a 6 amp alt. enough juice to charge my battery (runs a radio/casette and occassional cabin lights)?

Any input on my current engine or future plans is appreciated.

Eric
Frustrated in Framingham (MA)
Owner S/V Allia



woodbe67@yahoo.com

[Joe L.]

I got a lot of advice on this subject in my thread below (Is there a boat motor made that is reliable?). Don't know if you've seen it or if it would be helpful, but what they hey...



jl0246@alpha.rwu.edu

[Eric]

I read it with great interest (and empathy). I have tried all of that before. THanks though

ERic

I got a lot of advice on this subject in my thread below (Is there a boat motor made that is reliable?). Don't know if you've seen it or if it would be helpful, but what they hey...

[Gary L.]

Eric,

I may not have an answer to your outboard woes, but for the amount of money you invested in repairs, the mechanic should be responsible. If he is not, I would take him to the small claims court for the town/ city where he did the repair. It will cost a few dollars more for the constable to deliver the summons, but the effect will be worth it. It will cost less than a new engine.

Gary Lapine
Red Witch III
CD30C, #339
Somerset, MA



dory26@attbi.com

[Boyd]

Dear Frustrated in Farmingham....

I feel your pain... however inorder to be a peace with an outboard I have found that a much more intimate relationship with it is necessary. I do all my own repairs and maintenance (out of pure frustration). We are much closer now and things have been better.

I have had a couple of outboards of different brands with similar symptoms to those you describe. The fix has been simple but took me a while to get to the source of all the bad performance.

I am now very adept at adjusting the idle mixture screw on the carb. Slight changes in the oil/gas mix combined with running cold can cause these engines to respond as you describe. I have to adjust the carbs almost every time I use my engines. Just letting the gas sit for a month seems to change its characteristics and necessitate another tweek on the screw.

The drill goes like this. ...

Get the darn thing running... Usually pull a few times on full choke then a few pulls on no choke. If still no go then open the throttle full and pull....repeat as required. Let it warm up as much as possible. Most outboards will not get truly warm if not under load. With the engine in gear at idle tighten the screw until the idle speed starts to drop off... note the position of the screw. Losen the screw and the engine speed should increase. Continue loosing until the speed starts to drop off again or you get hesitation. Note the position of the screw... Move the screw to exactly half way between the two positions. Crank up the rpms slowly (in gear). She should rev up smoothly with no hesitations to full throttle and back. If not then tighten the screw a bit and try again. If still no smooth response loosen a bit and try again. Keep working at 1/8 turn or less in either direction till she is smooth as silk. Run at full throttle for a while. You may have to adjust again after she gets really hot. Fool with this until you get the hang of it. I suggest doing this on the boat. In a drum the water gets warm and changes things.

Usually after this adjustment either of my motors will purr all day. I often dont have to mess with this setting until the next tank of gas.

Run the darn thing at full throttle as much as possible. Outboards dont seem to like part throttle operation.

The trick of pulling at full choke then no choke and open throttle will usually start even the most stubborn outboard.

P.S. If you reach the point of tossing the thing in the drink... give it to me... I love a problem child.

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MKII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla.


I've posted on here several times since last August about my 9.9 HP Mariner outboard and how it just can't seem to get running with any kind of consistency. Last weekend it wouldn't start on Sat, but did on Sun. The week before it died in the middle of the harbor (sail-covers on). I spent $500 having the carb rebuilt over the winter. THe heafty sum was worth it to me to not have any more fears of it dying.

Alas. Today I tried to start it and it did what it has often done lately... sputtered for about 20 seconds with the choke open then died when the choke was closed. It starts up again with the choke open but soon dies, whether it's open or closed. No amout of trying to feather the choke seems to make a difference. I think it's flooding, but the weird thing is it seems to want all that gas then it suddenly can't take it anymore and refuses to even hiccup.

I recently replaced both tanks and the fuel line, to no avail. The guy who fixed the engine is giving me the old "it runs for me" stuff (I brought it back into his shop -- which is no small task when the boat is on a mooring). He refuses to help anymore. SHort of depositing a winch handle in his gullett, does anyone know what I can do now?

I've begun looking at replacements. I think the Honda 8 HP 4-stroke is what I want, but they come in three lengths -- 15 in (too short), 20 in and 25 in. Which is best for a CD 25? Also, what should I expect to get for a trade-in on my '96 Mariner? THe local dealer is offering $2,300 new. Sound right?

Is a 6 amp alt. enough juice to charge my battery (runs a radio/casette and occassional cabin lights)?

Any input on my current engine or future plans is appreciated.

Eric
Frustrated in Framingham (MA)
Owner S/V Allia

boyd@wbta.cc

[Serge Zimberoff]

Eric,
Have you looked at http://www.maxrules.com/. They have helped me in the past and might be worth trying. I have no connection with them so hope this doesn't sound like a commercial, but you sound as if you are at the point of trying all sources of possible help.
Serge
Ty #1700 'Cloning Around'



serge@srtrop.com

[Randy Bates]

Sorry to hear of your problems. May I suggest carb cleaner. Spray in down the intake tract, either as it runs or while someone else pulls the starter rope trying to get it top run. You need direct access to the carb air intake, so you'll need to remove the cover and anything else in the way. And keep a can of carb cleaner on board at all times.

As for shaft length: 25" definetly. The shorter ones will probably work, but the longer shaft will keep the prop in the water in waves. If you get a Honda you'll love it. My untimate advice would be to get the Honda. I had a Mariner and it sucked.

I've posted on here several times since last August about my 9.9 HP Mariner outboard and how it just can't seem to get running with any kind of consistency. Last weekend it wouldn't start on Sat, but did on Sun. The week before it died in the middle of the harbor (sail-covers on). I spent $500 having the carb rebuilt over the winter. THe heafty sum was worth it to me to not have any more fears of it dying.

Alas. Today I tried to start it and it did what it has often done lately... sputtered for about 20 seconds with the choke open then died when the choke was closed. It starts up again with the choke open but soon dies, whether it's open or closed. No amout of trying to feather the choke seems to make a difference. I think it's flooding, but the weird thing is it seems to want all that gas then it suddenly can't take it anymore and refuses to even hiccup.

I recently replaced both tanks and the fuel line, to no avail. The guy who fixed the engine is giving me the old "it runs for me" stuff (I brought it back into his shop -- which is no small task when the boat is on a mooring). He refuses to help anymore. SHort of depositing a winch handle in his gullett, does anyone know what I can do now?

I've begun looking at replacements. I think the Honda 8 HP 4-stroke is what I want, but they come in three lengths -- 15 in (too short), 20 in and 25 in. Which is best for a CD 25? Also, what should I expect to get for a trade-in on my '96 Mariner? THe local dealer is offering $2,300 new. Sound right?

Is a 6 amp alt. enough juice to charge my battery (runs a radio/casette and occassional cabin lights)?

Any input on my current engine or future plans is appreciated.

Eric
Frustrated in Framingham (MA)
Owner S/V Allia

randy.bates@baesystems.com

[Randy Bates]

Sorry to hear of your problems. May I suggest carb cleaner. Spray in down the intake tract, either as it runs or while someone else pulls the starter rope trying to get it top run. You need direct access to the carb air intake, so you'll need to remove the cover and anything else in the way. And keep a can of carb cleaner on board at all times.

As for shaft length: 25" definetly. The shorter ones will probably work, but the longer shaft will keep the prop in the water in waves. If you get a Honda you'll love it. My untimate advice would be to get the Honda. I had a Mariner and it sucked.

I've posted on here several times since last August about my 9.9 HP Mariner outboard and how it just can't seem to get running with any kind of consistency. Last weekend it wouldn't start on Sat, but did on Sun. The week before it died in the middle of the harbor (sail-covers on). I spent $500 having the carb rebuilt over the winter. THe heafty sum was worth it to me to not have any more fears of it dying.

Alas. Today I tried to start it and it did what it has often done lately... sputtered for about 20 seconds with the choke open then died when the choke was closed. It starts up again with the choke open but soon dies, whether it's open or closed. No amout of trying to feather the choke seems to make a difference. I think it's flooding, but the weird thing is it seems to want all that gas then it suddenly can't take it anymore and refuses to even hiccup.

I recently replaced both tanks and the fuel line, to no avail. The guy who fixed the engine is giving me the old "it runs for me" stuff (I brought it back into his shop -- which is no small task when the boat is on a mooring). He refuses to help anymore. SHort of depositing a winch handle in his gullett, does anyone know what I can do now?

I've begun looking at replacements. I think the Honda 8 HP 4-stroke is what I want, but they come in three lengths -- 15 in (too short), 20 in and 25 in. Which is best for a CD 25? Also, what should I expect to get for a trade-in on my '96 Mariner? THe local dealer is offering $2,300 new. Sound right?

Is a 6 amp alt. enough juice to charge my battery (runs a radio/casette and occassional cabin lights)?

Any input on my current engine or future plans is appreciated.

Eric
Frustrated in Framingham (MA)
Owner S/V Allia

randy.bates@baesystems.com

[scott]

This might be a stupid suggestion that you have aleady tried, but have you changed spark plugs and insured they are spaced properly?

I had a Mariner that came back from a shop on the Northshore with continuly problems that were the result of faulty plugs?

Good luck!!



ssantoro1@attbi.com

[PatO]

This sounds like an electrical prob to me. An outboard in a well on a mooring = lots of moisture whereas that same motor in a shop wil be subject to far less humidity and this difference in environment would account for the inconsistancies you've reported. You might try spraying the spark plug wires and magnetos with "Wire Drier" or "WD-40" or equiv. and see if that clears up the prob. If it does take the motor back to the mech explain the situation and ask him if he'll replace the components for the cost of the parts only. If he refuses post his name/company here - we'd all love to hear what businesses should be avoided. For while there is only mild shame in missing a diagnosis, failure to correct that error once the real problem is found is just plain wrong.
Hope this helps,

Pat



fornaft@NShotmail.com

[JimL]

Is this one of the Mariners that was actually a Yamaha? How old was it? Next time it doesn't want to run, pull the plug caps loose and position them so there is about a 1/4" gap between the metal clip (inside cap) and the end of the plug. This will force coil firing voltage very high (high enough to run when plugs are fouled). If it can't make enough spark to do it, the CDI could be bad. Caution......if this motor is sucking air on a crankshaft seal, the symptoms might be similar. Generally, seal leaks are permanent (acts up ALL the time). Ignition stuff can be pretty intermittent. If your engine can be started with the motor cover off, and you have electricity at the dock, try warming up the coils and CDI with a hair dryer. See if it'll either fire right up, every time, or won't start at all, every time. You can visually test spark by taking a pair of plugs and opening the gap very wide (.060-.080"). A good ignition will make a big spark with the plugs laying along side the engine, grounded on the wrench flats (make sure there's no gasoline available to ignite). The plugs need a very wide gap to simulate compressed air in the cylinder (compressed air serves as an insulator....which is why a lean condition can make the spark go away in an engine).

Honda built some motorcycle igniters, years ago, that had to be taken off the bike and stuck under your armpits for a while, before the bike would start on a cold day. Yamaha built some CDIs in bikes and ATVs that ran when the mood struck them.....they really didn't care what you wanted them to do!! On battery-coil ignition, they would occasionally random spark when the key was turned on, resulting in self starting on an engine NOT equipped with electric starter. That was pretty entertaining.....but sometimes it wasn't as good, because the engine had started up backwards.

Re: CDI igniters....Ford stuff in the 80s(the Magic Blue Box) will develop a bad power transistor that "floods" on. Only way to restart the engine after stalling is to key off for about a minute, which drains the base of the transistor through the RC circuit. Have you had similar experience with your outboard? PS: note to Ford guys....the $400 CDI can be replaced with a Rambler one from Pep Boys for $25. Works great and never let me down. Plugs right in and the color even matches!

Gotta stop now, taking up other folks nicklel! Regards, JimL



leinfam@earthlink.net