Is there a boat motor made that is reliable?

[Joe L.]

I've been around boats (motor boats) all of my life and I have never seen, nor heard of, a boat motor that you can count on. Granted, I haven't been around many brand new motors, but nonetheless, even the new ones I have been around equally sucked. I remember my father spending countless hours working on and fine tuning various boat motors in a barrel in the back yard to the point that they would hum like a Singer sewing machine, only to get them out to the lake and in the water and find that they produce no more than an anemic cough or two after three dozen pulls of the rope.

At least 33% of the time I have ever been in a boat, the trip ended by paddling back to the shore or limping in with the electric trolling motor. Since most of my prior experience has been on boats in lakes or rivers, it's never been a scary endeavor to go out and play russian boat motor roulette. But now that I'm on a 5000lb sailboat (translates into "hard to paddle") that could very well drift to Antarctica when my motor conks out and there's no wind (yes, with my luck I could drift that far and not encounter a bird-fart breeze), it's a little more imperative that my motor somewhat operate when called upon.

Yes, in case you haven't figured it out yet, my motor stopped on me (and more importantly, my wife) this weekend. We went out Saturday morning and had a fine sail in 1kt winds. We enjoyed it so much, that we planned to circumvent the Cape of Poppasquash Sunday morning to see the fine houses that line the other side of the shore (to non-Bristolians, that's about a 1/2 mile cruise). We motor out Sunday morning to a spot where I think I can handle the boat well enough to stay out of admiralty court and we raised the main. The wind immediately catches the sail, spins the boat around to the right (again, I'll use the fancy nautical terms like "starboard" when I'm advanced enough not to believe that death is imminent at any moment), and almost blows the boat so hard that we were approaching a 720 degree roll (that's my wife's version, mine would be more like a 5 degree heel). After a few attempts to maneuver that ended in a few wide turning circles, my wife quickly became the captain and commanded that we return to the mooring at once and exit all water areas. So down comes the main (jib never made it up) and we motor toward the mooring. About 50 yards from the mooring, the motor makes the most silent sound that you could possibly imagine. Not only was it silent, but I'm sure I heard cricket sounds coming from underneath the motor cover. As calmly as possible, I began to pull the rope, and pull the rope, and pull the rope, and... well, you get the idea. We are being quickly blown over toward (and I guess there could be worse places to be blown toward) the Coast Guard pier. I literally could have shouted for help.

At some point I had the brilliant clarity of mind to raise the main sail again and try to steer the boat... I mean, people do that all the time, don't they? So I raise the main and sure enough, I'm able to steer the boat. So I head back out to a big open pasture of water where I'm not likely to crash into anyone and I drop the sail again and resume pulling the rope. No success. After thousands of pulls, I switch gas tanks and resume working on the motor the only way I know how... pulling the rope.

I kept telling my wife that it was no big deal and she stayed surprisingly calm. But I was really beginning to worry and backup plans were churning through my mind as I pulled on the rope. I could call 911 on my cell phone - embarrassing. I could call 411 on my cell phone and ask for a boat towing company - do not know the name of a boat towing company. Could flag down a passing motor boat and request a tow - embarrassing. Could call the Coast Guard on my cell phone - God knows what that would lead to (helicopters, clipper ships and C-130s circling overhead?) Could call Harbor Master or Bristol Marine and ask them what I should do but I don't know any radio frequencies for anything, anyplace, or anybody - very bad, probably negligent, on my part - I'll know them next time. Could try to sail to my mooring - yeah, right. Could try to sail to a dock and hope for a successful crash landing - possible...

Pull, pull, pull, pull... then just as suddenly as it stopped, it started and ran like nothing was ever wrong, like I had just imagined that it had stopped and it never really had. We motored back to the mooring and after about 5 tries (I have to learn to compensate for a heavy wind), we catch the pickup buoy and tie up. We put everything in order (except for the life of me, I can't figure out how to fold a jib - considerably more difficult than a map) and braved the four foot chop in our little Walker Bay and triumphantly marched upon the shore a few short minutes later.

Now, my car has 168,000 miles on it and my motor has never stopped. My plane's motor is approaching 2000 hours and has never stopped. My lawn mower has run for years and the motor has never stopped. The 1/2 inch motor in my radio controlled plane has never stopped. My weedeater motor has never stopped. I've made over 1000 margaritas and my blender motor has never stopped. Why can I not get on a boat without the motor stopping every effin time?

My hope is that the fuel tank I was using had bad fuel. The tank sat all winter, but I had run the motor off that tank for probably a 1/2 hour before it stopped. However, it never stopped, and eventually restarted, on the new gas tank. So I will not run it again on the old tank and I'll hope that it not stop again. A few things I have planned in case it does conk out again is; actually attach the anchor to the anchor rope so I can drop it if I need to, have a list of radio frequencies that includes a tow boat (I'd think Bristol Maine performs that function), and if all else fails, head to the Herreshoff docks, which are near my mooring (very big, even I could dock there in a heavy wind using the sail).

I've considered buying a three h.p. motor for the dinghy and storing it on the boat when we're out. If I lost the main motor, I could pull it out and use the three horse. I'm also considering getting a new motor. I hate to because they cost half as much as I paid for the boat, but if I knew it would be VERY reliable, it would be worth it. If they make one powerful enough, I could keep a trolling motor on board for emergencies. But a trolling motor powerful enough to move the boat would probably be almost as expensive as a motor and would probably drain the battery pretty fast.

The best option sounds like a new motor with electric start (my rope pulling arm has been literally paralyzed since Sunday morning)... are there any new motors that will not quit every other trip? Are new motors reliable? Am I going to die?

My motor (Johnson 8h.p. Sailmaster) was completely rebuilt last year and pronounced as good as new, so I don't see any point in having anything else done to it. The best possible scenario would be that it was bad gas and it will never happen again, but if I were a betting man, I'd lay down some large on regular stoppages.

Oh well, any advice will, as always, be appreciated. Otherwise, thanks for listening to my rant (I'll pretend that somebody made it through this).

Joe L.
bob (BAD bob, VERY BAD!!!) CD25
Bristol, RI





jl0246@alpha.rwu.edu

[Tom Richards]

Joe,
I've owned a 9.9 Honda since 1984. I have only changed plugs and fluids during that time, never been to a mechanic for any reason. The motor starts 1st or 2nd pull every time. Never a problem of any sort. Clean, quiet (4 stroke), reliable. Can't say enough about it.
Good luck,
Tom



gldd@grandlakecolorado.com

[Joe Sankey]

Been there. Done that. I'd bet on bad gas. One possibility I've run into is a partially filled tank getting condensation in it, thereby adding water to the fuel. Try as I might, I can't make water burn. Did you burn all the fuel out of the engine when you got in? Not doing so used to add to problems. The good news is it sounds like you got your problem trip for the year out of the way early. Good luck!
Joe sankey

I've been around boats (motor boats) all of my life and I have never seen, nor heard of, a boat motor that you can count on. Granted, I haven't been around many brand new motors, but nonetheless, even the new ones I have been around equally sucked. I remember my father spending countless hours working on and fine tuning various boat motors in a barrel in the back yard to the point that they would hum like a Singer sewing machine, only to get them out to the lake and in the water and find that they produce no more than an anemic cough or two after three dozen pulls of the rope.

At least 33% of the time I have ever been in a boat, the trip ended by paddling back to the shore or limping in with the electric trolling motor. Since most of my prior experience has been on boats in lakes or rivers, it's never been a scary endeavor to go out and play russian boat motor roulette. But now that I'm on a 5000lb sailboat (translates into "hard to paddle") that could very well drift to Antarctica when my motor conks out and there's no wind (yes, with my luck I could drift that far and not encounter a bird-fart breeze), it's a little more imperative that my motor somewhat operate when called upon.

Yes, in case you haven't figured it out yet, my motor stopped on me (and more importantly, my wife) this weekend. We went out Saturday morning and had a fine sail in 1kt winds. We enjoyed it so much, that we planned to circumvent the Cape of Poppasquash Sunday morning to see the fine houses that line the other side of the shore (to non-Bristolians, that's about a 1/2 mile cruise). We motor out Sunday morning to a spot where I think I can handle the boat well enough to stay out of admiralty court and we raised the main. The wind immediately catches the sail, spins the boat around to the right (again, I'll use the fancy nautical terms like "starboard" when I'm advanced enough not to believe that death is imminent at any moment), and almost blows the boat so hard that we were approaching a 720 degree roll (that's my wife's version, mine would be more like a 5 degree heel). After a few attempts to maneuver that ended in a few wide turning circles, my wife quickly became the captain and commanded that we return to the mooring at once and exit all water areas. So down comes the main (jib never made it up) and we motor toward the mooring. About 50 yards from the mooring, the motor makes the most silent sound that you could possibly imagine. Not only was it silent, but I'm sure I heard cricket sounds coming from underneath the motor cover. As calmly as possible, I began to pull the rope, and pull the rope, and pull the rope, and... well, you get the idea. We are being quickly blown over toward (and I guess there could be worse places to be blown toward) the Coast Guard pier. I literally could have shouted for help.

At some point I had the brilliant clarity of mind to raise the main sail again and try to steer the boat... I mean, people do that all the time, don't they? So I raise the main and sure enough, I'm able to steer the boat. So I head back out to a big open pasture of water where I'm not likely to crash into anyone and I drop the sail again and resume pulling the rope. No success. After thousands of pulls, I switch gas tanks and resume working on the motor the only way I know how... pulling the rope.

I kept telling my wife that it was no big deal and she stayed surprisingly calm. But I was really beginning to worry and backup plans were churning through my mind as I pulled on the rope. I could call 911 on my cell phone - embarrassing. I could call 411 on my cell phone and ask for a boat towing company - do not know the name of a boat towing company. Could flag down a passing motor boat and request a tow - embarrassing. Could call the Coast Guard on my cell phone - God knows what that would lead to (helicopters, clipper ships and C-130s circling overhead?) Could call Harbor Master or Bristol Marine and ask them what I should do but I don't know any radio frequencies for anything, anyplace, or anybody - very bad, probably negligent, on my part - I'll know them next time. Could try to sail to my mooring - yeah, right. Could try to sail to a dock and hope for a successful crash landing - possible...

Pull, pull, pull, pull... then just as suddenly as it stopped, it started and ran like nothing was ever wrong, like I had just imagined that it had stopped and it never really had. We motored back to the mooring and after about 5 tries (I have to learn to compensate for a heavy wind), we catch the pickup buoy and tie up. We put everything in order (except for the life of me, I can't figure out how to fold a jib - considerably more difficult than a map) and braved the four foot chop in our little Walker Bay and triumphantly marched upon the shore a few short minutes later.

Now, my car has 168,000 miles on it and my motor has never stopped. My plane's motor is approaching 2000 hours and has never stopped. My lawn mower has run for years and the motor has never stopped. The 1/2 inch motor in my radio controlled plane has never stopped. My weedeater motor has never stopped. I've made over 1000 margaritas and my blender motor has never stopped. Why can I not get on a boat without the motor stopping every effin time?

My hope is that the fuel tank I was using had bad fuel. The tank sat all winter, but I had run the motor off that tank for probably a 1/2 hour before it stopped. However, it never stopped, and eventually restarted, on the new gas tank. So I will not run it again on the old tank and I'll hope that it not stop again. A few things I have planned in case it does conk out again is; actually attach the anchor to the anchor rope so I can drop it if I need to, have a list of radio frequencies that includes a tow boat (I'd think Bristol Maine performs that function), and if all else fails, head to the Herreshoff docks, which are near my mooring (very big, even I could dock there in a heavy wind using the sail).

I've considered buying a three h.p. motor for the dinghy and storing it on the boat when we're out. If I lost the main motor, I could pull it out and use the three horse. I'm also considering getting a new motor. I hate to because they cost half as much as I paid for the boat, but if I knew it would be VERY reliable, it would be worth it. If they make one powerful enough, I could keep a trolling motor on board for emergencies. But a trolling motor powerful enough to move the boat would probably be almost as expensive as a motor and would probably drain the battery pretty fast.

The best option sounds like a new motor with electric start (my rope pulling arm has been literally paralyzed since Sunday morning)... are there any new motors that will not quit every other trip? Are new motors reliable? Am I going to die?

My motor (Johnson 8h.p. Sailmaster) was completely rebuilt last year and pronounced as good as new, so I don't see any point in having anything else done to it. The best possible scenario would be that it was bad gas and it will never happen again, but if I were a betting man, I'd lay down some large on regular stoppages.

Oh well, any advice will, as always, be appreciated. Otherwise, thanks for listening to my rant (I'll pretend that somebody made it through this).

Joe L.
bob (BAD bob, VERY BAD!!!) CD25
Bristol, RI

[Joe L.]

Joe, THe tank was full but it sat all winter. What do you mean by running all of the fuel out of the motor? Should I pull the fuel line out and let the motor run out of gas when I'm done with it?

THanks,

Joe



jl0246@alpha.rwu.edu

[Gary L.]

Joe,

I think everyone has felt your pain at one time or another. The dilemma as to purchase a new motor or not? However, I am not mechanically inclined to offer much help. What I would do though, would be to start the motor while at the mooring, let it idle for a while, and keep it at idle while sailing. It simply could be bad gas, or that it was not used enough. Maybe having it run for a while will get it to the point where it won't foul the plug.

My only experience with an outboard was with Mr. Peeps, my CD26 which had an electric start 9.9 Yamaha. In six years, it never failed me, but it did need to be repaired as I did not use it enough (I was able to sail from and to my mooring).


As for sailing, e-mail me, I might be able to help.

Gary Lapine
Red Witch III
CD30C, #339
Somerset, MA



glapine@shipley.com

[Ken Coit]

Joe,

Yes, pull that fuel line and let the engine run until it begins to shudder, then shut her down. The will minimize the amount of varnish that can accumulate in the engine.

In addition to the bad fuel possibility, I wonder if you pumped up the bulb in your fuel line before starting the engine and checked it later on? With the new fuel tank, it sounds like you either had to run a lot of air or old fuel out of the engine before she would run well.

I think that I would also practice shooting the mooring under sail. It is much easier to recover from a badly executed approach to a mooring than a pier. Can you reef that mainsail?

Keep on sailing,

Ken Coit
CD/14 #538
CD/36 #84 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC

Joe, THe tank was full but it sat all winter. What do you mean by running all of the fuel out of the motor? Should I pull the fuel line out and let the motor run out of gas when I'm done with it?

THanks,

Joe

parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com

[Chris Schnell]

Joe....IT'S CALLED A HONDA 4Stroke, 5 hp.....you'll never need another motor for your CD25! All else is true regarding fuel, etc., but the HONDA was the best investment I ever made when I got rid of my Johnson. Aside from buying our CD30. Good Luck!

Full Sails & Calm Seas,

Chris Schnell & Dale Hampton
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC



swabbie@compaq.net

[Joe L.]

Ken,

You've given me some ideas. The old tank leaks fuel at the connection to the motor when I pump the fuel (but not when the motor is running), so I didn't pump it but a couple of times. I guess if there is a leak there when I pump fuel, it could also be drawing in air. The tank is old and starting to rust on the outside, the line is stiff and the connection leaks - I think I'll just toss that tank completely and get a new one. I have a new 2 1/2 gallon tank that I've not had a problem running the motor off of. The old tank is one of those standard metal six gallon tanks. I couldn't find a six gallon plastic tank that will fit in the area, so I guess I'll just get another metal one with new lines and connections. Hopefully that was the problem.

The main does have two reef positions (don't know the proper terminology) with lines attached to quickly pull them down and attach to the boom with a long bungie cord that passes through the holes. I will practice sailing to the mooring (as long as my motor is running).

Thanks for the advice,

Joe

Joe,

Yes, pull that fuel line and let the engine run until it begins to shudder, then shut her down. The will minimize the amount of varnish that can accumulate in the engine.

In addition to the bad fuel possibility, I wonder if you pumped up the bulb in your fuel line before starting the engine and checked it later on? With the new fuel tank, it sounds like you either had to run a lot of air or old fuel out of the engine before she would run well.

I think that I would also practice shooting the mooring under sail. It is much easier to recover from a badly executed approach to a mooring than a pier. Can you reef that mainsail?

Keep on sailing,

Ken Coit
CD/14 #538
CD/36 #84 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC

Joe, THe tank was full but it sat all winter. What do you mean by running all of the fuel out of the motor? Should I pull the fuel line out and let the motor run out of gas when I'm done with it?

THanks,

Joe

jl0246@alpha.rwu.edu

[tom babington]

Joe,
We have a CD25 in North Dartmouth with a Tohatsu 8hp (same as a Nissan)old gas will get you everytime. I run the engine out of gas and fog it every winter. Any gas left over gets dump into my car tank, gallon every tank or so, until its gone. Acura with 189,000 miles and only uses a half quart of oil every 6,000 miles - thats another story. Don't use old gas in the outboard - ever period. In boating season I run off a three gallon tank so I go through the gas and it doesn't sit around. I think it collects mositure and goes flat.

Tom
S/V Stardust



tomb5050@aol.com

[Duncan Maio]

Joe:

Bristol Marine is on VHF channel 69. The hailing/emergency channel hereabouts is 16. The local TowBoatUS service is Marine Rescue Services out of Wickford, RI (401-295-8711). Get a towing plan from BoatUS (along with insurance).

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI (a safe distance from bob).




mail@mysticmarine.net

[Joe L.]

Thanks for the info, Duncan. Those channels and phone numbers are now wriiten down in my wallet. I have my insurance with Allstate (couple hundred a year) and it covers towing.

Thanks again,

Joe L.
bob CD25
Bristol, RI (I'm not sure that you're ever a safe distance from bob)

Joe:

Bristol Marine is on VHF channel 69. The hailing/emergency channel hereabouts is 16. The local TowBoatUS service is Marine Rescue Services out of Wickford, RI (401-295-8711). Get a towing plan from BoatUS (along with insurance).

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI (a safe distance from bob).

jl0246@alpha.rwu.edu

[Stan W.]

My last boat (Marshall 18) had a Suzuki 6 hp. The few times it failed to run, the cause was always lack of premix either because I forgot to open the tank vent or the coupling between the fuel line and the motor was broken (although a fine motor otherwise, the Suzuki's design was particularly lame in that regard). Do flush and fog the motor at the end of each season, do carry fresh spark plugs and do learn how to check for spark. If you have spark, then 99% of the time the problem will be lack of fuel. Make sure the tank is free of any sediment, the tank vent is open, the fuel line is primed, there are no leaks between the tank and the motor and the fuel filter isn't clogged. Last year's fuel should not be a problem unless the tank was left outdoors all winter. Good luck.



smwheatley@capecod.net

[Dan Moore]

I finished your stuff!
Let's look on the bright side, Joe. You got the main back up!!! The traveler worked ok? Good. Halyards straightened out?
As for the motor question, I've discovered that outboards can't take neglect or abuse. Remembering that the dismount move is a royal pain in the a.., I would still suggest removing the motor and tanks and taking it to a qualified service person(Yellow Pages or recommendation from a local fisherman) for a tune-up, check-up, etc. You could be trouble shooting for weeks and your wife's patience won't take it! And before you remount in it the engine well, try it on the dingy for an hour or two.
Dan

ride9616@ride.ri.net

[Paul Hierstein]

Joe,
I've owned a 9.9 Honda since 1984. I have only changed plugs and fluids during that time, never been to a mechanic for any reason. The motor starts 1st or 2nd pull every time. Never a problem of any sort. Clean, quiet (4 stroke), reliable. Can't say enough about it.
Good luck,
Tom

Joe,
I heartily agree with Tom. I have owned quite a few Honda motorcycles, lawnmowers and cars and never had a problem with them. They have almost unbelievable reliability and longevity. You'll pay a little more but you will probably never be disappointed. Usually Honda products have very good resale if you ever decide to get rid of them. A Honda outboard will probably last a lifetime if given reasonable care. Have you ever heard a Honda owner complain about the quality or reliability of his product?
Sounds like your leaking fuel line and rusty tank may be the culprits
in your case though. Let's hope so, but if you decide to repower, do take a look at the Hondas.

Sinsailorly,
Paul H.
Abre Alas
CD30C
Galveston, Texas



paulhstn@aol.com

[Joe L.]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I'll try running on just the new tank and if I have the problem again, I think I'll just sell the Johnson and get a new motor.

Thanks again,

Joe