How to float off a lift-off trailer

[Fred]

Does anybody have any good ideas as to how to float off a CD22 from a Triad lift-off trailer(3' draft)?????



entomoFred@worldnet.att.net

[Randy Bates]

Backdown the ramp and stop just short of the water. Place wheel chocks on the trailer wheels. Disconect the trailer from the vehicle. Pull the vehicle up the ramp a short ways and attach a chain or tow strap between the trailer and the vehicle. Pull up till you can remove the trailer wheel chocks. Then back down the ramp using a helper to keep the trailer tongue straight if necessary. This obviously requires a good, strong trailer tongue wheel. I use 15-20 feet of chain between the trailer and vehicle depending on the slope of the ramp.

Does anybody have any good ideas as to how to float off a CD22 from a Triad lift-off trailer(3' draft)?????

randy.bates@baesystems.com

[Joel]

Can you reverse this procedure to float back on?

Joel
Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
Bayside, NY



bondy_joelNOSPAM@hotmail.com

[Randy Bates]

Absolutely. The BIGGEST concern is that the system that connects the trailer to the vehicle be bullet proof. I may case the chain is bolted to the trailer via a hole in the tongue and at the vehicle it is bolted to the hitch via a hole. I'v also connected it to the vehicle by wrapping it TIGHTLY around one of the other balls and bolting it back on itself. You simply drive the trailer down the ramp, chock the trailer wheels, unhitch, pull vehicle up ramp a few feet, attach extension chain, take out slack, remove chocks, back trailer into water. A very good aid is to attach some sort of pole from both sides, as a guide. It also helps if you mark the water line depth on the uprights at the point where she floats off.
The bigger the tongue wheel the easier it will roll. Small wheels tend to hang up on rough surfaces. My current trailer for "Seraph" is a goose neck with a very wide base forward and uses two tongue jacks with steel wheels at the corners. Good luck. It's really not all that big a deal once you do it a few times. Just take your time and double check all connections. The freedom to move my CD25D "Seraph" from one body to another without outside assistance was the reason I bought her and the trailer. I can get from Austin, Tx to the Florida Keys in 3 easy days, Port Aransas in 4 hours, using "Seraph" as one would a travel trailer while on land. I did this years ago with a San Juan 21 and a 68 Dodge Dart. I'm now using a 97 F250.

Can you reverse this procedure to float back on?

Joel
Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
Bayside, NY

rtbates@austin.rr.com

[Ken Coit]

Make sure you can stop the rig as it rols towards the water. Otherwise, if your brakes fail or are otherwise ineffective, you will be swimming away from your boat and vehicle. I suggest some metal wheel chocks that have good bite on the ramp and can be moved ahead of the vehicle as you launch. Sand can act much like ball bearings on a concrete ramp and once you start sliding it is likely you will not stop until the vehicle is in several feet of water.

Having a backup vehicle with a winch can be handy.

Have fun!

Ken

Does anybody have any good ideas as to how to float off a CD22 from a Triad lift-off trailer(3' draft)?????

parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com

[Fred G.]

Absolutely. The BIGGEST concern is that the system that connects the trailer to the vehicle be bullet proof. I may case the chain is bolted to the trailer via a hole in the tongue and at the vehicle it is bolted to the hitch via a hole. I'v also connected it to the vehicle by wrapping it TIGHTLY around one of the other balls and bolting it back on itself. You simply drive the trailer down the ramp, chock the trailer wheels, unhitch, pull vehicle up ramp a few feet, attach extension chain, take out slack, remove chocks, back trailer into water. A very good aid is to attach some sort of pole from both sides, as a guide. It also helps if you mark the water line depth on the uprights at the point where she floats off.
The bigger the tongue wheel the easier it will roll. Small wheels tend to hang up on rough surfaces. My current trailer for "Seraph" is a goose neck with a very wide base forward and uses two tongue jacks with steel wheels at the corners. Good luck. It's really not all that big a deal once you do it a few times. Just take your time and double check all connections. The freedom to move my CD25D "Seraph" from one body to another without outside assistance was the reason I bought her and the trailer. I can get from Austin, Tx to the Florida Keys in 3 easy days, Port Aransas in 4 hours, using "Seraph" as one would a travel trailer while on land. I did this years ago with a San Juand a 68 Dodge Dart. I'm now using a 97 F250.

Can you reverse this procedure to float back on?

Joel
Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
Bayside, NY

Can I assume that a winch mounted to the trailer is necessary to both launch & retreive ??



entomoFred@worldnet.att.net

[Fred G.]

Absolutely. The BIGGEST concern is that the system that connects the trailer to the vehicle be bullet proof. I may case the chain is bolted to the trailer via a hole in the tongue and at the vehicle it is bolted to the hitch via a hole. I'v also connected it to the vehicle by wrapping it TIGHTLY around one of the other balls and bolting it back on itself. You simply drive the trailer down the ramp, chock the trailer wheels, unhitch, pull vehicle up ramp a few feet, attach extension chain, take out slack, remove chocks, back trailer into water. A very good aid is to attach some sort of pole from both sides, as a guide. It also helps if you mark the water line depth on the uprights at the point where she floats off.
The bigger the tongue wheel the easier it will roll. Small wheels tend to hang up on rough surfaces. My current trailer for "Seraph" is a goose neck with a very wide base forward and uses two tongue jacks with steel wheels at the corners. Good luck. It's really not all that big a deal once you do it a few times. Just take your time and double check all connections. The freedom to move my CD25D "Seraph" from one body to another without outside assistance was the reason I bought her and the trailer. I can get from Austin, Tx to the Florida Keys in 3 easy days, Port Aransas in 4 hours, using "Seraph" as one would a travel trailer while on land. I did this years ago with a San Juan 21 and a 68 Dodge Dart. I'm now using a 97 F250.

Can you reverse this procedure to float back on?

Joel
Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
Bayside, NY

Can I assume that a winch mounted on the trailer is necessary for both launching and retreival ??



entomoFred@worldnet.att.net

[Fred G.]

Absolutely. The BIGGEST concern is that the system that connects the trailer to the vehicle be bullet proof. I may case the chain is bolted to the trailer via a hole in the tongue and at the vehicle it is bolted to the hitch via a hole. I'v also connected it to the vehicle by wrapping it TIGHTLY around one of the other balls and bolting it back on itself. You simply drive the trailer down the ramp, chock the trailer wheels, unhitch, pull vehicle up ramp a few feet, attach extension chain, take out slack, remove chocks, back trailer into water. A very good aid is to attach some sort of pole from both sides, as a guide. It also helps if you mark the water line depth on the uprights at the point where she floats off.
The bigger the tongue wheel the easier it will roll. Small wheels tend to hang up on rough surfaces. My current trailer for "Seraph" is a goose neck with a very wide base forward and uses two tongue jacks with steel wheels at the corners. Good luck. It's really not all that big a deal once you do it a few times. Just take your time and double check all connections. The freedom to move my CD25D "Seraph" from one body to another without outside assistance was the reason I bought her and the trailer. I can get from Austin, Tx to the Florida Keys in 3 easy days, Port Aransas in 4 hours, using "Seraph" as one would a travel trailer while on land. I did this years ago with a San Juan 21 and a 68 Dodge Dart. I'm now using a 97 F250.

Can you reverse this procedure to float back on?

Joel
Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
Bayside, NY

Can I assume that a winch mounted to the trailer is necessary to both launch and retreive ??



entomoFred@worldnet.att.net

[Randy Bates]

Absolutely. The BIGGEST concern is that the system that connects the trailer to the vehicle be bullet proof. I may case the chain is bolted to the trailer via a hole in the tongue and at the vehicle it is bolted to the hitch via a hole. I'v also connected it to the vehicle by wrapping it TIGHTLY around one of the other balls and bolting it back on itself. You simply drive the trailer down the ramp, chock the trailer wheels, unhitch, pull vehicle up ramp a few feet, attach extension chain, take out slack, remove chocks, back trailer into water. A very good aid is to attach some sort of pole from both sides, as a guide. It also helps if you mark the water line depth on the uprights at the point where she floats off.
The bigger the tongue wheel the easier it will roll. Small wheels tend to hang up on rough surfaces. My current trailer for "Seraph" is a goose neck with a very wide base forward and uses two tongue jacks with steel wheels at the corners. Good luck. It's really not all that big a deal once you do it a few times. Just take your time and double check all connections. The freedom to move my CD25D "Seraph" from one body to another without outside assistance was the reason I bought her and the trailer. I can get from Austin, Tx to the Florida Keys in 3 easy days, Port Aransas in 4 hours, using "Seraph" as one would a travel trailer while on land. I did this years ago with a San Juan 21 and a 68 Dodge Dart. I'm now using a 97 F250.

Can you reverse this procedure to float back on?

Joel
Pokey II
'73 Ty #549
Bayside, NY

Can I assume that a winch mounted to the trailer is necessary to both launch and retreive ??

If for some reason you can't get the trailer into deep enough water to float your boat all the way to the bow chock you could use a winch to haul it forward. A line from the boats bow cleat to the trailer's bow chock works. The first thing during retrival and last thing during launch that has to happen is getting or losing control of the bow at the bow chock. Then it's a matter of holding the boat square over the trailer(lines running fore and aft from the standoffs helps) as the vehicle pulls up the ramp. Stop and check how the boat sits on the trailer as soon as all the weight is on it. It sometimes takes a few ins and outs to get her sitting just right. But what doesn't!



rtbates@austin.rr.com

[Bob B]

I had a lift off trailer and put my boat, a typhoon, in and out with relative ease. I did what Randy suggested, I used a heavy line to lower the trailer into the water. The problem is that you need to make sure that your ramp continues to slope off so that you can get the required depth to launch the boat.
For loading the trailer, I didn't do the reverse. I installed keel rollers onto the trailer, you can get them from Boat US or West Marine or your local marine hardware store. I had a bow winch and would lower the side supports on the trailer just a little, then pull the boat over the rollers and use the supports to keep it upright. Then, I would snugg up the side supports but the majority of the boat's weight still rests upon the keel rollers. It was always some dockside entertainment but worked fairly well.
Do pay attention to Ken's advice. I have a 4 wheel drive Subaru which is not great for open road hauling but did better at putting the boat in and out than most trucks. It never slipped like I see some doing. The fellow who owned the boat before me did have to have a trailer and truck hauled out of 5 feet of water. That must have been better dockside entertainment.

Good luck with it. The 22 is a fine boat.

Bob B.
CD 25D
Charleston



BundyR@aol.com

[JimL]

I've written an explanation of how I handled a Santana 20 on standard ramps. There is no way to winch the boat up onto the trailer with a bow eye or the anchor chocks/cleats. The nose of the boat will get sucked down, too early, and holds the boat too far back on the trailer. The forces involved increase very quickly, and can damage the boat or you.

After thinking about it, a "bouyant trailer" would work just as well on the trailer described (per this subject). Just be sure not to use too much flotation, or the trailer may try to turn on it's side (keep the flotation as high as practical.) I used to put a Star in and out (had to float over the side of trailer) by getting a few volunteers to sit on the transom (they got wet). This method pushed the stern down enough to set the boat in the saddles as we started to pull out. The down side is.....they had to jump off, into the water, as the boat came up the ramp. Otherwise the tongue weight gets very negative! We were younger then, and all a little crazy.....

Also, I'm not a big fan of the chain or rope method for the trailer. I've had better luck with sections of square tubing that can bolt together. You can use 2" square, with 2 1/2" thin wall slipped over, then another section of 2", etc. to make the length. I had the holes drilled about 1 foot in from the ends of each stick (a "stick" of steel is 20 feet long). This method keeps the trailer in line if a wheel hits something under the water (a rock, somebodys old prop, tool box, etc.) I have used the long rope method, but I had to get a wheel barrow type wheel and build my own caster to make it work on a rough ramp. FYI, the CD25 only needs about 15' of extension to get on and off, on a pretty standard ramp. It will need the flotation method to keep from damaging it.

Getting on and off the trailer can be very easy if you prepare the trailer correctly. Also, set up your lights and wire harness (the whole thing) for quick removal. There is no point in dipping them in water. It's easier to take them on and off, then to buy new ones..... not to mention potential vehicle system damage when the day comes you plug your taillight circuit into a "9 amp" short circuit. That 10 amp taillight fuse will last plenty long enough to get a car harness well and truly melted (or on fire).



leinfam@earthlink.net

[Randy Bates]

In order to avoid the problems you encountered with the bow, you simply run the trailer far enough down the ramp so that the bow to bow chock relationship is correct. Then as you move the trailer up the ramp all the boat does is pickup the trailer as the depth gets shallower. The bow should not have to change it's position in the bow chock. Sounds like you may have had the trailer too far down the ramp. If the trailer depth is correct the boat will float right up to the bow chock before it touches any part of the trailer.

I've written an explanation of how I handled a Santana 20 on standard ramps. There is no way to winch the boat up onto the trailer with a bow eye or the anchor chocks/cleats. The nose of the boat will get sucked down, too early, and holds the boat too far back on the trailer. The forces involved increase very quickly, and can damage the boat or you.

After thinking about it, a "bouyant trailer" would work just as well on the trailer described (per this subject). Just be sure not to use too much flotation, or the trailer may try to turn on it's side (keep the flotation as high as practical.) I used to put a Star in and out (had to float over the side of trailer) by getting a few volunteers to sit on the transom (they got wet). This method pushed the stern down enough to set the boat in the saddles as we started to pull out. The down side is.....they had to jump off, into the water, as the boat came up the ramp. Otherwise the tongue weight gets very negative! We were younger then, and all a little crazy.....

Also, I'm not a big fan of the chain or rope method for the trailer. I've had better luck with sections of square tubing that can bolt together. You can use 2" square, with 2 1/2" thin wall slipped over, then another section of 2", etc. to make the length. I had the holes drilled about 1 foot in from the ends of each stick (a "stick" of steel is 20 feet long). This method keeps the trailer in line if a wheel hits something under the water (a rock, somebodys old prop, tool box, etc.) I have used the long rope method, but I had to get a wheel barrow type wheel and build my own caster to make it work on a rough ramp. FYI, the CD25 only needs about 15' of extension to get on and off, on a pretty standard ramp. It will need the flotation method to keep from damaging it.

Getting on and off the trailer can be very easy if you prepare the trailer correctly. Also, set up your lights and wire harness (the whole thing) for quick removal. There is no point in dipping them in water. It's easier to take them on and off, then to buy new ones..... not to mention potential vehicle system damage when the day comes you plug your taillight circuit into a "9 amp" short circuit. That 10 amp taillight fuse will last plenty long enough to get a car harness well and truly melted (or on fire).

randy.bates@baesystems.com

[JimL]

I think the problem is that the bottom of the keels are flat, forward of the true CG. I had this problem on the shoal keel Coronado 23, a retractable keel Venture 21, the Santana 20 fin keel (!), and now the CD25. If the trailer was designed to only make contact under a single point of the keel, it would probably be possible to maintain full engagement in the bow chock. That wouldn't work for load distribution, however. The other problem is that all these trailers try to rock the boat on the forward bunks or pads....again leading to coming a few inches shy on the bow chock. On the few occasions I was able to keep the bow chock engaged, it wound up to far up the bow, putting everything in a big bind.

Yes, the ramps are pretty steep, but we don't get any choices, so that's why I started floating the trailers! If your ramps are more shallow, you probably have a better result.



leinfam@earthlink.net