Hi, I've noticed a stress crack in a sleeve at the end of the stay . The turnbuckle is fine , and the rest of it looks strong . Anybody replaced one, or part recently . Again Thanks Jody k (cygnus,cd30) Huntington ,NY . ps I "m at a loss to remember the term for the lower stay .
jody_kaplan@hotmail.com
bowsprit stay?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Kevin LeMans
It's called a "bobstay"
nmJody Kaplan wrote: Hi, I've noticed a stress crack in a sleeve at the end of the stay . The turnbuckle is fine , and the rest of it looks strong . Anybody replaced one, or part recently . Again Thanks Jody k (cygnus,cd30) Huntington ,NY . ps I "m at a loss to remember the term for the lower stay .
lemans@gte.net
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Jody kaplan
Re: It's called a "bobstay"
Thanks Kevin , one of the perils of working nights, and thinking of things before launch time that need to be done . Nautical memory is definitely better when totally awake. Take Care Jody KKevin LeMans wrote:nmJody Kaplan wrote: Hi, I've noticed a stress crack in a sleeve at the end of the stay . The turnbuckle is fine , and the rest of it looks strong . Anybody replaced one, or part recently . Again Thanks Jody k (cygnus,cd30) Huntington ,NY . ps I "m at a loss to remember the term for the lower stay .
jody_kaplan@hotmail.com
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Turnbuckle swage on bobstay....
Captain Kaplan,
I suppose it depends on the degree of the crack and the risk you think is acceptable. What you are probably looking at is chloride induced stress corrosion cracking caused by saltwater and the fact that the swage is pressed or rolled in place, building up stress in the metal sleeve.
Hanalei has a cracked swage also, I look at it every year, and think "You should replace that, before it fails and the forestay, mast, and rig fall over backward in a blow." But, the crack is only about 1 inch long and it is in the end of the sleeve, not down close to the threads that go into the turnbuckle. The crack doesn't even look like it is in the part that is swagged. Also, it is not visually changing, it looks the same as it did 3 years ago. If it did fail, concievably it could break off the bowsprit and over goes the rig. You didn't say what CD you have, but if it is a 30, and you decide to replace the bobstay, let me know what it cost you. To replace it, remove it from the vessel and take it to a rigger so they can copy it EXACTLY.
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE
Noank, CT
I suppose it depends on the degree of the crack and the risk you think is acceptable. What you are probably looking at is chloride induced stress corrosion cracking caused by saltwater and the fact that the swage is pressed or rolled in place, building up stress in the metal sleeve.
Hanalei has a cracked swage also, I look at it every year, and think "You should replace that, before it fails and the forestay, mast, and rig fall over backward in a blow." But, the crack is only about 1 inch long and it is in the end of the sleeve, not down close to the threads that go into the turnbuckle. The crack doesn't even look like it is in the part that is swagged. Also, it is not visually changing, it looks the same as it did 3 years ago. If it did fail, concievably it could break off the bowsprit and over goes the rig. You didn't say what CD you have, but if it is a 30, and you decide to replace the bobstay, let me know what it cost you. To replace it, remove it from the vessel and take it to a rigger so they can copy it EXACTLY.
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE
Noank, CT
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Joe Sankey
Re: bowsprit stay?
I'd get it replaced. I've replaced them on a 28 and a 30; around $100 or less, including new turnbuckle. It is no less important than your forestay, and could potentially do more damage if it failed. It's doubtful it would pass a survey. IMHO, and based on conversations with riggers, inspection with the old naked eyeballs won't cut it, and the lower portion spends a lot of time immersed in salt water. If you need a source, mine were done in south Florida with a few days turnaround. You'll need to send the whole deal off so they can measure accurately.
Joe Sankey
CD 30 Slow Dance
Magnolia Springs, AL
sankey@gulftel.com
Joe Sankey
CD 30 Slow Dance
Magnolia Springs, AL
Jody Kaplan wrote: Hi, I've noticed a stress crack in a sleeve at the end of the stay . The turnbuckle is fine , and the rest of it looks strong . Anybody replaced one, or part recently . Again Thanks Jody k (cygnus,cd30) Huntington ,NY . ps I "m at a loss to remember the term for the lower stay .
sankey@gulftel.com
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Jerry J Commisso
Re: bowsprit stay?
I noticed the same crack on my CD30 bobstay last year. I took it to my local boatyard and had a new one made for about $75.00. I would replace it now before it is to late. There is no way to tell how really bad the crack is until it blows apart. Any good boatyard should be able to replace it. Just make sure they use the same size fittings and cable. Good luck.
Jerry J Commisso
CD30c CHELSEA ROSE
sail.family@verizon.net
Jerry J Commisso
CD30c CHELSEA ROSE
Jody Kaplan wrote: Hi, I've noticed a stress crack in a sleeve at the end of the stay . The turnbuckle is fine , and the rest of it looks strong . Anybody replaced one, or part recently . Again Thanks Jody k (cygnus,cd30) Huntington ,NY . ps I "m at a loss to remember the term for the lower stay .
sail.family@verizon.net
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Larry DeMers
Re: Turnbuckle swage on bobstay....
Captain Stump Sir!
This is not the place to become frugal my good man! If the damage is showing up on the exterior surface, then the damage internally is far greater than what appears to your scurvy eyes mate! You have a significant risk of losing your bowsprit and rig as you alluded to. Lets count the $$ here.
A new mast without rigging, winches is reportedly around $7000 for the 30. Add another $3000 for rigging and labor so the mast roughly will cost someone (you or the insurance co..or both) $10k.
Now the bowsprit: Some CD30's had rather prosaic ash or even oak bowsprits from what I have seen on over half a dozen 30's that I have helped commission over the years. Some had expensive teak bowsprits (mine does), which are impossible to replace directly and will have to be fabricated by you or some shop. I would award another $1500 for that job (if you are fitted with a teak bowsprit, maybe $300 if not) plus another $500 for the damage it will do when it is ripped out of the deck.
Now surely, these figures can be argued til the sun sets forever, but the final number will be around $12k for that mast coming down, and your insurance company will certainly question whether the boat was cared for properly and whether maintenance was done per their requirements that you agree to in accepting them as the carrier. What I am getting at is that they would have reason to question if not deny your claim..or assign partial responsibility for the problem to you, should the stick come a tumbling down. Don't give them this opportunity to save money at your expense.. That is one side of the coin.
The other side is the stay itself. Maybe this would be a good time to learn how to use swageless fittings on your stays yourself?? That is the path I will take when this happens to me (my friends CD30 two docks down replaced his last year (with swaged fittings) for exactly the same reason, so mine is probably close behind and I am looking at it several times a year -basicly every time I am out in the dinghy and think of it). You should be able to do it for around $75 yourself, or as reported by a few others in this thread, $75-100 if someone else gets involved. Give it a try!
My final argument for your getting to this job right away this spring is the enormous tactical and political drubbing you will be subjected to by the rest of the fleet should you be the leading boat in this summers major Cape Dory race, and this stay should fail, with your mast a-comin' down. It would be a dose of sour ye would be swallowin' my friend, and all for a paltry $100. (to say nothing about the emotional wreck your fine woman will be in after being a party to the dismasting. She may likely give up this advocation in favor of more mundane pursuits).
So Captain, bite the bullet and let up on the tension for your forestay, add a temporary forestay tensioned to the bow cleat, and pull that bad boy out for rebuilding.
Cheers and the best to you,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Sailing the Apostle Islands and Lake Superior -first weekend aboard this weekend!
demers@sgi.com
This is not the place to become frugal my good man! If the damage is showing up on the exterior surface, then the damage internally is far greater than what appears to your scurvy eyes mate! You have a significant risk of losing your bowsprit and rig as you alluded to. Lets count the $$ here.
A new mast without rigging, winches is reportedly around $7000 for the 30. Add another $3000 for rigging and labor so the mast roughly will cost someone (you or the insurance co..or both) $10k.
Now the bowsprit: Some CD30's had rather prosaic ash or even oak bowsprits from what I have seen on over half a dozen 30's that I have helped commission over the years. Some had expensive teak bowsprits (mine does), which are impossible to replace directly and will have to be fabricated by you or some shop. I would award another $1500 for that job (if you are fitted with a teak bowsprit, maybe $300 if not) plus another $500 for the damage it will do when it is ripped out of the deck.
Now surely, these figures can be argued til the sun sets forever, but the final number will be around $12k for that mast coming down, and your insurance company will certainly question whether the boat was cared for properly and whether maintenance was done per their requirements that you agree to in accepting them as the carrier. What I am getting at is that they would have reason to question if not deny your claim..or assign partial responsibility for the problem to you, should the stick come a tumbling down. Don't give them this opportunity to save money at your expense.. That is one side of the coin.
The other side is the stay itself. Maybe this would be a good time to learn how to use swageless fittings on your stays yourself?? That is the path I will take when this happens to me (my friends CD30 two docks down replaced his last year (with swaged fittings) for exactly the same reason, so mine is probably close behind and I am looking at it several times a year -basicly every time I am out in the dinghy and think of it). You should be able to do it for around $75 yourself, or as reported by a few others in this thread, $75-100 if someone else gets involved. Give it a try!
My final argument for your getting to this job right away this spring is the enormous tactical and political drubbing you will be subjected to by the rest of the fleet should you be the leading boat in this summers major Cape Dory race, and this stay should fail, with your mast a-comin' down. It would be a dose of sour ye would be swallowin' my friend, and all for a paltry $100. (to say nothing about the emotional wreck your fine woman will be in after being a party to the dismasting. She may likely give up this advocation in favor of more mundane pursuits).
So Captain, bite the bullet and let up on the tension for your forestay, add a temporary forestay tensioned to the bow cleat, and pull that bad boy out for rebuilding.
Cheers and the best to you,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Sailing the Apostle Islands and Lake Superior -first weekend aboard this weekend!
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Captain Kaplan,
I suppose it depends on the degree of the crack and the risk you think is acceptable. What you are probably looking at is chloride induced stress corrosion cracking caused by saltwater and the fact that the swage is pressed or rolled in place, building up stress in the metal sleeve.
Hanalei has a cracked swage also, I look at it every year, and think "You should replace that, before it fails and the forestay, mast, and rig fall over backward in a blow." But, the crack is only about 1 inch long and it is in the end of the sleeve, not down close to the threads that go into the turnbuckle. The crack doesn't even look like it is in the part that is swagged. Also, it is not visually changing, it looks the same as it did 3 years ago. If it did fail, concievably it could break off the bowsprit and over goes the rig. You didn't say what CD you have, but if it is a 30, and you decide to replace the bobstay, let me know what it cost you. To replace it, remove it from the vessel and take it to a rigger so they can copy it EXACTLY.
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE
Noank, CT
demers@sgi.com
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: OK, Ok, OK, just go ahead and call me.......CHEAP...
Captain DeMers,
You as always Sir, in your Northern Michigan wisdom, are correct! I have been watching this thread this morning and finally realized with your LIMITED prose, that I was being dollar proud and thinkin' foolish! Removing the Bobstay is on the "TO-DO" list for tomorrow. I will take it to the local rigger and have them copy it! Hanalei also has a teak bowsprit, would hate to tear up that fine looking piece of wood! Good point about a second forestay to the cleat. I was wondering on how to rig a temp. bobstay, as the yard is splashing Hanalei Friday morning.
Geez, can you just IMAGINE what a beatin' I would take if that spar came down as I am leading the Fleet into Watch Hill? ? ? I don't EVEN want to think about it! ! Yours Sir, and thank you for the reality check....I remain......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE....(and intending to stay that way!)
You as always Sir, in your Northern Michigan wisdom, are correct! I have been watching this thread this morning and finally realized with your LIMITED prose, that I was being dollar proud and thinkin' foolish! Removing the Bobstay is on the "TO-DO" list for tomorrow. I will take it to the local rigger and have them copy it! Hanalei also has a teak bowsprit, would hate to tear up that fine looking piece of wood! Good point about a second forestay to the cleat. I was wondering on how to rig a temp. bobstay, as the yard is splashing Hanalei Friday morning.
Geez, can you just IMAGINE what a beatin' I would take if that spar came down as I am leading the Fleet into Watch Hill? ? ? I don't EVEN want to think about it! ! Yours Sir, and thank you for the reality check....I remain......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA Number ONE....(and intending to stay that way!)
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Don Carr
Re: OK, Ok, OK, just go ahead and call me.......CHEAP...
Dave;
Call Chuck Poindexter at Sound Rigging. I'll bet he could get you set up in time for the splash. Between you and I, the rigger at Noank isn't the best around plus..with the yard markup..ya' know what I mean.
carrds@us.ibm.com
Call Chuck Poindexter at Sound Rigging. I'll bet he could get you set up in time for the splash. Between you and I, the rigger at Noank isn't the best around plus..with the yard markup..ya' know what I mean.
carrds@us.ibm.com
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charlie palumbo
Re: bowsprit stay?
Jody,Jody Kaplan wrote: Hi, I've noticed a stress crack in a sleeve at the end of the stay . The turnbuckle is fine , and the rest of it looks strong . Anybody replaced one, or part recently . Again Thanks Jody k (cygnus,cd30) Huntington ,NY . ps I "m at a loss to remember the term for the lower stay .
Do not hesitate to replace it. cost should not be a factor, because if your bobstay gives, you can seriusly endanger your rig.
I would go to a reputable rigger, have him adopt the turnbuckle into and replace the bobstay with rod rigging....it is much stronger.
good luck,
charlie cd 36 N.Y.
jcp1347j@aol.com
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Bill Goldsmith
Re: OK, Ok, OK, just go ahead and call me.......CHEAP...
Capt. Stump,
You can probably go ahead and launch even if the bobstay isnt' ready in time. Just do not tension the rig, and also run your jib halyard to a bow cleat to keep any tension off the bowsprit.
I'm glad you're getting it replaced!
Capt. Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
Croton-on-Hudson, NY
goldy@bestweb.net
You can probably go ahead and launch even if the bobstay isnt' ready in time. Just do not tension the rig, and also run your jib halyard to a bow cleat to keep any tension off the bowsprit.
I'm glad you're getting it replaced!
Capt. Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
Croton-on-Hudson, NY
goldy@bestweb.net
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Michael Heintz
Re: OK, Ok, OK, just go ahead and call me.......CHEAP...
Captain Pirate Dave,
For sure it would be a tragedy if your mast came tumbling down during the race ....
...and I guess those behind you would be obliged to assist, Macht Nichts however will be far ahead of you and never look back....Sorry Dave I would not be able to Assist 
So get it done !!!!!!!!
ps....New sails are done yeaaaaaa hope to sailing next week !!!!!
Michael Heintz
Mzenith@aol.com
For sure it would be a tragedy if your mast came tumbling down during the race ....
...and I guess those behind you would be obliged to assist, Macht Nichts however will be far ahead of you and never look back....Sorry Dave I would not be able to Assist So get it done !!!!!!!!ps....New sails are done yeaaaaaa hope to sailing next week !!!!!
Michael Heintz
Mzenith@aol.com
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Larry Austin
dave, you might want to loosen,,,
the backstay tension as well. I removed my "bobstay" isn't is also called a dophin striker?? anyway, i removed my bobstay a few days ago , for a different reason. i loosen the backstay to relieve some pulling back tension and then i used the jib sheet secured to the forward cleat, put some tension on it with the mast winch. you'll be able to tell if the tension is off the bobstay.
Larry Austin
CD30MKII
LAYLA
laustin@us.ibm.com
Larry Austin
CD30MKII
LAYLA
laustin@us.ibm.com
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Hanalei
Re: No, a "Dolphin Striker" is.....
Captain Austin,
actually the bob stay STRUT! Most CD's that I know of do not have a bob stay strut.
D. Stump, Hanalei
actually the bob stay STRUT! Most CD's that I know of do not have a bob stay strut.
D. Stump, Hanalei
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Hanalei
Re: Poindexter will.....
Captains,
Mr. Poindexter from Sound Rigging will manufacturer a new bobstay by this time tomorrow night. He said he will make it up while I wait, and it will be less than $100! Oh, the yard NEVER tensions my rig! They only four point the stick and I do the rest, including hanging the boom and setting the stays'l boom. I do the tensioning myself with a Loos guage to assure she is in proper trim!!!!
Thank you all for your assistance in maintaining the competetive edge of the s/v Hanalei.........I remain Sirs, your most HUMBLE servant.....
Dave Stump
Hanalei
Mr. Poindexter from Sound Rigging will manufacturer a new bobstay by this time tomorrow night. He said he will make it up while I wait, and it will be less than $100! Oh, the yard NEVER tensions my rig! They only four point the stick and I do the rest, including hanging the boom and setting the stays'l boom. I do the tensioning myself with a Loos guage to assure she is in proper trim!!!!
Thank you all for your assistance in maintaining the competetive edge of the s/v Hanalei.........I remain Sirs, your most HUMBLE servant.....
Dave Stump
Hanalei