Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

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Frank Vernet

Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by Frank Vernet »

Patrons of the Board -

My CD33 is currently on the hard at Herrington Harbour North Marina on the Chesapeake. As many of you know, we have had an uncommonly warm winter, and the time draws near to put our boats back in the water. Pre-launch activities include an honest assessment of the bottom paint.

Last applied in June 99 - she needs a new coat. Boatyard wants between $10/ft to >$16/ft depending on the paint and LOA :(

Seems like I could do it myself for consirably less! However, having never done this myself, I approach the project with some trepidation. How much sanding has to be done? Is more than 1 coat necessary? Sprayed or rolled on? Please advise.

A search of prior posts suggests that this is not a major job, but I thought I'd put the question out there directly.

Thanks to all.

Frank Vernet
CO Sirius
CD33 #84



frank.vernet@mda.osd.mil
Bill

Re: Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by Bill »

Hi Frank

Wow, the prices you listed seem cheap compared to here in Oklahoma. Our marina charges $30 per foot and the job is less than satisfactory....Which is why I have done all the bottom work on my boats. I assure you it is not rocket science and I use a roller to apply. I had a friend helping me the first time (neither of us had any experience) who insisted on tipping off with a brush around the water line...I looked at it and decided that the roller did a much better job as far as appearance goes....

Now as to your price? Does that include bottom prep???at $16 per ft and I would assume that a 33 fter uses close to two gallons (I actually have no idea, and do they thin the paint? Ours does to save paint) you might get a good deal...The paint I use is about $125 a gallon....I can get almost two coats out of a gallon, so I get a quart as well and paint her good....and apply any left over stuff to the water line and areas like the leading edge of the keel....

Sanding the bottom isnt rocket sceince either, but it is work (but a labor of love)!!!! At least in my case I can do a much better job than the marina ape can if for no other reason that love of the vessel...Marina apes typically dont really give a hoot...

Fair winds

Bill
Captain Commanding
S/V Rhapsody (the Original)
CD25D #148
Frank Vernet wrote: Patrons of the Board -

My CD33 is currently on the hard at Herrington Harbour North Marina on the Chesapeake. As many of you know, we have had an uncommonly warm winter, and the time draws near to put our boats back in the water. Pre-launch activities include an honest assessment of the bottom paint.

Last applied in June 99 - she needs a new coat. Boatyard wants between $10/ft to >$16/ft depending on the paint and LOA :(

Seems like I could do it myself for consirably less! However, having never done this myself, I approach the project with some trepidation. How much sanding has to be done? Is more than 1 coat necessary? Sprayed or rolled on? Please advise.

A search of prior posts suggests that this is not a major job, but I thought I'd put the question out there directly.

Thanks to all.

Frank Vernet
CO Sirius
CD33 #84


cd25d@rhapsodysails.com
Neil Gordon

Re: Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by Neil Gordon »

It depends in part on what paint is on the bottom now.

Traditional paints leech copper but the paint stays on the bottom. Ablative paints wear off and there's no buildup. Maintaining an ablative bottom is pretty easy.

Heavy sanding if horrible work. I'd get someone else to do it. But if you don't have buildup, then it's really just about getting the bottom clean and applying new paint. A light sanding will be enough.

A roller does the bottom just fine... the overlaps, etc., can't be seen once the boat's in the water. Once the waterline is masked with tape, you can use a roller right up to the line. I only use a brush for parts the roller can't reach.

Number of coats depends on what's left on the bottom... the original treatment is usually three coats... then a maint. coat every year or so is all that's needed.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



cdory28@aol.com
Tom

Re: Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by Tom »

Bottom paint is definitely not someting you spray on. It has the consistency of melted fudge. Way too thick to spray. If you use a roller it puts on a thicker coat. If you use a brush it goes on thinner and goes a little farther. You won't cover a 33 with one gallon and it doesn't store well from year to year so plan to put all you buy on the boat. Cheaper by the gallon, so I'd say get two gallons and then second coat the areas that are the most prone to growth, i.e., the water line where the sunlight encourages growth, around the throughulls, etc.

As Neil says bottom prep is a matter of chipping away any loose old paint, then feathering in the edges with rough sandpaper maybe 80 grit -- no fine finish required here. Wear a mask and long sleeve shirts and pants. Try to keep sanding dust and old paint off your skin and not to breathe the dust. Very toxic stuff can make you ill. People often hire the yard to do the prep because of the toxic nastiness of the job, but painting on the new paint is an easy job for you. Stir well while you're painting to keep the poisons from setling to the bottom of the can, but don't thin the paint.
Frank Vernet wrote: Patrons of the Board -

My CD33 is currently on the hard at Herrington Harbour North Marina on the Chesapeake. As many of you know, we have had an uncommonly warm winter, and the time draws near to put our boats back in the water. Pre-launch activities include an honest assessment of the bottom paint.

Last applied in June 99 - she needs a new coat. Boatyard wants between $10/ft to >$16/ft depending on the paint and LOA :(

Seems like I could do it myself for consirably less! However, having never done this myself, I approach the project with some trepidation. How much sanding has to be done? Is more than 1 coat necessary? Sprayed or rolled on? Please advise.

A search of prior posts suggests that this is not a major job, but I thought I'd put the question out there directly.

Thanks to all.

Frank Vernet
CO Sirius
CD33 #84


TomCambria@mindspring.com
Bill Goldsmith

Re: Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by Bill Goldsmith »

Bill is right about the fact that you'll take much better care to do a good job than a yard. The costs quoted to you don't seem to be outrageous, but you get what you pay for....... Use a roller for the large expanses and a cheap brush to cut in around the thru-hulls, around the rudder, etc.

What is the condition of the bottom? Does it "need" new bottom paint because portions of the hull are showing through? Is there a large buildup of many coats of old bottom paint that are chipping?

If the old paint is built up in many layers and not in good shape, it makes sense to strip it all off and start anew. Maybe even put on an epoxy barrier coat after it's all stripped. Stripping is alot of work, and involves using a combination of scrapers and Chemicals such as Peel-Away. Stripping down to the hull has the advantage of allowing you to begin anew with a paint of your choice.

I have found that the new ablative paints reduce the amount of subsequent bottom prep to virtually nil. As the paint wears, you just add new coats without sanding. Depending on what is already there, and the condition, you can put an ablative paint over the old paint and put off stripping while not continuing to build up layers.

If the old paint is adhering well, then all you need to do to go sailing is to scruff it up with either sandpaper or a scruffy pad and paint over the old paint. Be sure to find out the brand and type of the old paint and choose paint that the mfg says is compatible.

If the old paint is an ablative type then just hose it off and when dry, add one or two more coats of ablative paint.

If the old paint is in good shape then one additional coat will probably do. If you are starting from bare hull, two coats are better. The actual application of the coats is easy--the bottom prep is the bear.

Here's a great feature of the ablative paints that saves effort an money down the road...

If you are starting from a bare hull, plan on three coats. The first two coats are a color that contrasts from the final coat. For instance, I use red Micron CSC, and for the final coat, I use Brown. As the ablative paint wears away, the red "marker" coat shows through. Since you can relaunch without adding new paint, I just touch up the spots where the marker coat shows through. Works great!

Bill Goldsmith
CD27 #173
Second Chance
Frank Vernet wrote: Patrons of the Board -

My CD33 is currently on the hard at Herrington Harbour North Marina on the Chesapeake. As many of you know, we have had an uncommonly warm winter, and the time draws near to put our boats back in the water. Pre-launch activities include an honest assessment of the bottom paint.

Last applied in June 99 - she needs a new coat. Boatyard wants between $10/ft to >$16/ft depending on the paint and LOA :(

Seems like I could do it myself for consirably less! However, having never done this myself, I approach the project with some trepidation. How much sanding has to be done? Is more than 1 coat necessary? Sprayed or rolled on? Please advise.

A search of prior posts suggests that this is not a major job, but I thought I'd put the question out there directly.

Thanks to all.

Frank Vernet
CO Sirius
CD33 #84


goldy@bestweb.net
Neil Gordon

Re: Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by Neil Gordon »

>>... second coat the areas that are the most prone to growth, i.e., the water line where the sunlight encourages growth, around the throughulls, etc.<<

An extra coat is also good where there's high wear... such as the leading edge of the keel and the rudder.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



cdory28@aol.com
TJ

Re: Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by TJ »

Just finished the bottom on my CD28. If you don't have too much old paint build-up, a rough sanding with 80 grit will do a nice job of preparing the surface for a new coat. To avoid the sanding dust problem, I also recommend using a wet sandpaper and a hose. That will eliminate harmful dust, wash away the residue as you sand, and clean the sandpaper of buildup that clogs the dry stuff so quickly. Don't forget to clean the newly sanded surface well before applying the new coat.

The bottom paint goes on best with a roller. I would use an ablative paint to avoaid future build-up of layers and use two coats for longer durability.



tjsan@atlantic.net
Michael Heintz

Caution here do not use electric sander if wet sanding

Post by Michael Heintz »

Captains,

Caution here.... do not use electric sander if wet sanding!!!!! :-)

Michael Heintz
JimL

Re: Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by JimL »

I just did my CD25 myself and got some great advice before I started.
1. Paint suit and hood with clear face plate. Disposable, available cheap from auto body supply stores. I duct taped a long plastic hose into the nozzle in the back of the hood, then duct taped the hose to an old hair dryer (cool air setting). I duct taped a cheap car air filter element onto the hair dryer intake. This blows clean fresh air (from 30 feet away)into your hood, right over the top of your head and down across your face. You'll knock the job out very quickly because you'll be comfortable. I kid you not....you'll step out of the suit clean and dry with no grit in your eyes or nose!
2. Air powered DA sander (a Harbor Freight cheapie will be fine, sometimes 30-40 dollars on sale). Rent a compressor if you don't have one. Use the Velcro pad (screws on in place of the rubber one...industrial hardware supply has them). This takes NoFil (white) dry disks. At 80-100 grit you'll do the whole job in about 15-20 disks (they're about 6 bucks for a 5 pack). I only needed 10 for the 25 (they don't plug up easily).
3. I put down big sheets of plastic to catch the debris because the DA (dual action random orbital) really knocks the stuff off. With the comfort of the suit, and the speed of the NoFil paper disks, I did the whole bottom in about 2 hours or so, non-stop. The hooded suit lets you hold the sander closer to your body, or directly above a shoulder. You just don't get as tired. I'm not a big fan of the wet sanding...it can really spread the mess and it's hard to keep yourself from becoming saturated. Wear the suit, stay clean and dry.
4. Use the trick little small diameter paint rollers (they're only about as big around as your thumb). The foam ones are magic on bottom paint! All the boat yard guys here swear by them.
5. Mix, mix, mix....then split off half the gallon into a clean 1/2 gallon can (you can buy empties at the hardware) and seal it. Your paint consistency will be much better throughout the job. If the paint wants to streak when you start rolling over the 2-part primer, mix, mix, mix, some more. I agree you'll need 2 gallons.
NOTE: I've added a picture on the second page of my website showing the hood-hose-hair dryer arrangement.



leinfam@earthlink.net
Frank Vernet

Advice Given IRT Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by Frank Vernet »

Gentlemen:

Thank you all for the advice and recommendations. What had initially appeared daunting now seems much more manageable. Looks as if I have my weekend layed out for me :)

Thanks to all.
Frank Vernet wrote: Frank Vernet
CO Sirius
CD33 #84


frank.vernet@mda.osd.mil
wayne grenier

Re: Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by wayne grenier »

Frank Vernet wrote: Patrons of the Board -

My CD33 is currently on the hard at Herrington Harbour North Marina on the Chesapeake. As many of you know, we have had an uncommonly warm winter, and the time draws near to put our boats back in the water. Pre-launch activities include an honest assessment of the bottom paint.

Last applied in June 99 - she needs a new coat. Boatyard wants between $10/ft to >$16/ft depending on the paint and LOA :(

Seems like I could do it myself for consirably less! However, having never done this myself, I approach the project with some trepidation. How much sanding has to be done? Is more than 1 coat necessary? Sprayed or rolled on? Please advise.

A search of prior posts suggests that this is not a major job, but I thought I'd put the question out there directly.

Thanks to all.

Frank Vernet
CO Sirius
CD33 #84
Most importantly-buy a good respirator-like an Osha approved one from Sears-not a dust mask-despite what you may hear this is a not a particularly fun or healthy job! and it depends how far you want to take it-as you are reading you can go from a light hand sanding to using air and power tools to completely strip the bottom. I use a sears right angle grinder/sander with 100-120 grit discs and I look a member of "blue man group" when I'm done. But its a yearly thing so unless you want to throw money at the boatyard every year its something you can easily do yourself-not a hard job-but not fun.



grenier@ma.ultranet.com
Red

Re: Bottom Painting for 1st Timers

Post by Red »

At the boatyard where I work part time, we use 80 grit screen sandpaper attached to a plasterer's pad and swivel handle. This does a very nice job. Red.



BassFluke7@aol.com
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