I am contemplating a new headsail for the Aloha Spirit. Does anyone have an opinion, (and I know a few of you out there do) on the largest headsail (yankee) that will easily tack between the headstay and the staysail? A fellow CD30 owner/friend suggested that a 125% would be about the maximum size as far as tacking around the front of the staysail goes. I am thinking that a larger headsail would help with boat speed on those days on the Chesapeake when the standard yankee and staysail are just not enough. I would still use the standard yankee for sailing in the Spring and the Fall when the wind tends to blow harder here.
Thanks,
Bob Ohler
bobohler@chesapeake.net
Head sail size on a CD30 cutter?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Kevin LeMans
Re: Head sail size on a CD30 cutter?
I bought a new yankee from Hood last year. 5 oz. Vectran. It's area is 100% of the foretriangle, which means the clew would extend well behind the upper shrouds if the sail was sheeted flat. The sail that came on my boat was probably about 85% of the foretriangle.
This is a beautiful sail. I can carry it in up to about 16 to 17 knots of wind. The boat will close reach at over 6 knots in winds as light as 5 to 6 knots. Okay, maybe my knot meter is a little optimistic, but it will definately move the boat even in light air. If the wind is less than 3 or 4 knots, I'm going to throw up the (175%) nylon drifter anyway, regardless of whether the yankee is 100 or 125 or 135.
I cannot imagine trying to tack a larger sail between the stays. As it is, timing is important, and some work required.
I don't even try to tack the drifter. Just run the sheets in front of the head stay and gibe it around. With a 125 or 135, you might find this easier, if not exactly racing form.
Good luck.
Kevin LeMans
CD30 Raconteur
lemans@gte.net
This is a beautiful sail. I can carry it in up to about 16 to 17 knots of wind. The boat will close reach at over 6 knots in winds as light as 5 to 6 knots. Okay, maybe my knot meter is a little optimistic, but it will definately move the boat even in light air. If the wind is less than 3 or 4 knots, I'm going to throw up the (175%) nylon drifter anyway, regardless of whether the yankee is 100 or 125 or 135.
I cannot imagine trying to tack a larger sail between the stays. As it is, timing is important, and some work required.
I don't even try to tack the drifter. Just run the sheets in front of the head stay and gibe it around. With a 125 or 135, you might find this easier, if not exactly racing form.
Good luck.
Kevin LeMans
CD30 Raconteur
lemans@gte.net
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d. Stump, Hanalei
Re: In talking with Mack Sails....
Captain Ohler,
they said that the original Yankee was probably less than 85%! This because of the very high cut foot(to clear the lifelines) and the fact that the sail hung from a pendant at the head. My brother had a 135 to 150 on his CD-30C "B" model, but he had removed the stays'l stay and all the stays'l rig! It worked well in light airs, but lost when beating to weather in anything over 15 knot winds. Had to roller furl it, and that made it loose shape. I guess it is a toss-up, I may have Mack make me one with a flatter foot, and a bit higher hoist to get rid of the head pendant. But, won't do it until they finish the new mains'l.
I suppose for the lifeline issue, you could attach the lifelines at the base of the bow pulpit, but that means you could possibly fall overboard when deploying the anchor! I guess it is all a give and take. You will see a lot of comments about tacking the yankee or whatever headsail through the "slot" between the Yankee and the Stays'l, but I have never had a problem with it. When "by the lee", I just wait a second longer and allow the headsail to backwind slightly and then release the sheet and she will blow right through. It's just technique I guess. Let me know what you end up doing....FWIW....
Dave Stump, Hanalei
they said that the original Yankee was probably less than 85%! This because of the very high cut foot(to clear the lifelines) and the fact that the sail hung from a pendant at the head. My brother had a 135 to 150 on his CD-30C "B" model, but he had removed the stays'l stay and all the stays'l rig! It worked well in light airs, but lost when beating to weather in anything over 15 knot winds. Had to roller furl it, and that made it loose shape. I guess it is a toss-up, I may have Mack make me one with a flatter foot, and a bit higher hoist to get rid of the head pendant. But, won't do it until they finish the new mains'l.
I suppose for the lifeline issue, you could attach the lifelines at the base of the bow pulpit, but that means you could possibly fall overboard when deploying the anchor! I guess it is all a give and take. You will see a lot of comments about tacking the yankee or whatever headsail through the "slot" between the Yankee and the Stays'l, but I have never had a problem with it. When "by the lee", I just wait a second longer and allow the headsail to backwind slightly and then release the sheet and she will blow right through. It's just technique I guess. Let me know what you end up doing....FWIW....
Dave Stump, Hanalei
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Joe Sankey
Re: Head sail size on a CD30 cutter?
Bob, our 30 came with an as-new 121% (marked 130, but 121 is actual measurement), and it will not go through the slot without help. Our sailmaker, Schurr in Pensacola, has suggested a 130-140 with the stay; 155 without it. We're in a light air area. Another thing has to do with roller reefing; do you have it? If so, you could reduce sail on the tacks. More trouble, but if you don't do a lot of short tacking, maybe that's the answer. Good luck and let us know how it works out on the water.
Joe Sankey
Slow Dance
CD 30 #311
sankey@gulftel.com
Joe Sankey
Slow Dance
CD 30 #311
Bob Ohler wrote: I am contemplating a new headsail for the Aloha Spirit. Does anyone have an opinion, (and I know a few of you out there do) on the largest headsail (yankee) that will easily tack between the headstay and the staysail? A fellow CD30 owner/friend suggested that a 125% would be about the maximum size as far as tacking around the front of the staysail goes. I am thinking that a larger headsail would help with boat speed on those days on the Chesapeake when the standard yankee and staysail are just not enough. I would still use the standard yankee for sailing in the Spring and the Fall when the wind tends to blow harder here.
Thanks,
Bob Ohler
sankey@gulftel.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: Tacking a Genoa thru the Staysail Slot..it works!
On DeLaMer, we use both a reefing staysail and a 140% reefing genoa (Hood). The Genoa is a multi-weight sail with a foam luff pad sewn in to flatten the sail as it is roller-reefed. This sail is useable generally up to the 90% size / position. After that the shape is too small to be of too much help usually (there have been exceptions).
We always leave the staysail rigged, and use the sail itself in all conditions except where the wind is from the stern quarter or worse. The staysail then blankets the genoa, so it is usually dropped then.
To tack the genoa, we have found a way to use the sail to help it thru the slot between the staysail and the genoa. So far, we have used a couple of other methods..I am sure everyone has tried these; the roll it in -tack- then roll it out trick. The let the wind try to pull the sail thru, only to have to roll it in against the drag of the genoa's material on the staysail.
What we found that works almost effortlessly, is to begint he tack as normal. Hold the genoa's sheet tight until the winds pressure is starting to go on it. At this point, wind in perhaps 7-10 turns on the furler (more for lighter air, less for stronger air). Then as the vessel tacks thru the eye of the wind, quickly unwind the genoa completely. This forms a bag that sags into the 'slot' between the staysail and genoa, fills with air top to bottom, and pulls the rest of the sail thru the slot as the boat continues thru it's tack, taking the whole sail thru smoothly.
This method takes far less time than rolling it in would, and is almost effortless.
As to sail choices, the CD30 and most others need a large genoa for lighter wind applications. That IS the secret to making her go fast. The Yankee is a higher wind/large wave sail only. As mentioned previously, the area of that sail is very small for light to moderate airs.
The better choice is a larger genoa on roller/furler (with a foam pad in the luff for flattening and a roller system that has a double swivelat the top so that the sail can be furled partially), and a second head stay, slightly behind the roller drum, for use in hanking on the yankee or storm jib. This second stay could be attached with a Highfield Lever so that the stay itself could be released and stowed back at the mast. This second stay would also accomodate double balanced headsails for downwind work on the tradewind circuits, if that were a part of your plans. It would be essential for anyone venturing off shore for any length of time/distance, as the storm jib could be rigged to this stay permanently, stuffed in a turtle bag, ready for use. Then the tacking of the genoa would be to roll it in, and then roll it out. Not bad considering that you make few tacks in a given days sailing on the open ocean.
So the first order of business is to get a genoa of 130-140% with a foam luff pad installed (this is vital for reefed capabilities.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
We always leave the staysail rigged, and use the sail itself in all conditions except where the wind is from the stern quarter or worse. The staysail then blankets the genoa, so it is usually dropped then.
To tack the genoa, we have found a way to use the sail to help it thru the slot between the staysail and the genoa. So far, we have used a couple of other methods..I am sure everyone has tried these; the roll it in -tack- then roll it out trick. The let the wind try to pull the sail thru, only to have to roll it in against the drag of the genoa's material on the staysail.
What we found that works almost effortlessly, is to begint he tack as normal. Hold the genoa's sheet tight until the winds pressure is starting to go on it. At this point, wind in perhaps 7-10 turns on the furler (more for lighter air, less for stronger air). Then as the vessel tacks thru the eye of the wind, quickly unwind the genoa completely. This forms a bag that sags into the 'slot' between the staysail and genoa, fills with air top to bottom, and pulls the rest of the sail thru the slot as the boat continues thru it's tack, taking the whole sail thru smoothly.
This method takes far less time than rolling it in would, and is almost effortless.
As to sail choices, the CD30 and most others need a large genoa for lighter wind applications. That IS the secret to making her go fast. The Yankee is a higher wind/large wave sail only. As mentioned previously, the area of that sail is very small for light to moderate airs.
The better choice is a larger genoa on roller/furler (with a foam pad in the luff for flattening and a roller system that has a double swivelat the top so that the sail can be furled partially), and a second head stay, slightly behind the roller drum, for use in hanking on the yankee or storm jib. This second stay could be attached with a Highfield Lever so that the stay itself could be released and stowed back at the mast. This second stay would also accomodate double balanced headsails for downwind work on the tradewind circuits, if that were a part of your plans. It would be essential for anyone venturing off shore for any length of time/distance, as the storm jib could be rigged to this stay permanently, stuffed in a turtle bag, ready for use. Then the tacking of the genoa would be to roll it in, and then roll it out. Not bad considering that you make few tacks in a given days sailing on the open ocean.
So the first order of business is to get a genoa of 130-140% with a foam luff pad installed (this is vital for reefed capabilities.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior
Bob Ohler wrote: I am contemplating a new headsail for the Aloha Spirit. Does anyone have an opinion, (and I know a few of you out there do) on the largest headsail (yankee) that will easily tack between the headstay and the staysail? A fellow CD30 owner/friend suggested that a 125% would be about the maximum size as far as tacking around the front of the staysail goes. I am thinking that a larger headsail would help with boat speed on those days on the Chesapeake when the standard yankee and staysail are just not enough. I would still use the standard yankee for sailing in the Spring and the Fall when the wind tends to blow harder here.
Thanks,
Bob Ohler
demers@sgi.com
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Patrick Turner
Re: Head sail size on a CD30 cutter?
Personally, I would make the inner forestay removable and use a hanked on stays'l. In the Spring and Fall when the winds blow stronger, the standard 110% Yankee and Stays'l is perfect - this combination actually boils down to approximately 135% foretriangle sail area and the Yankee can be rolled/reefed to reduce sail. As long as you have about 12knots of wind, getting the Yankee through the slot is not hard. Try this....when you're about to tack thru....harden up on the stays'l sheet to prevent it from automatically self-tacking for a moment. Let the Yankee backwind against the stays'l as you pass through for just a beat and then let er' go. Once your through, ease the stays'l sheet and your done. With a Main sail that has 2 deep (3 is better) reefs in it and the stays'l, you could sail in up to 35 knots of wind. In the Summer when the winds are light, I would put the inner forestay away and replace the Yankee with a lighter 135% genoa. No problems tacking about with the lighter air and you still have good foretriangle area. If you're making up a new 135% Genoa, talk with the sailmaker about using some hi-tech line as a rope luff and have it extra long at the tack end. You could then fly that Genoa with the Yankee downwind - double headsail style- without having to run it up the luff groove of the roller fuling unit....as long as you have a Spinnaker halyard that is.
Anyway, my 2 cents.
Pat
patrick.t@attbi.com
Anyway, my 2 cents.
Pat
patrick.t@attbi.com